Engine balancing questions?

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69MOPE

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I would like to gather as much info on crankshaft balancing as possible before I drop off my short block internals, so I don't look like an idiot if asked any questions by the machinist.
1-What parts do I bring with me and does the dampner, keyway, and lower chain sprocket need to be installed?
2-How long does it take, I would like to watch?
3-How are bobweight weights calculated?
4-Is there any chance the journal surfaces will get damaged during the "spin"?
5-Anyone know of a reputable shop in the Pa./Delaware/N.J. tri-state area?
6-Any info would be greatly appreciated!
 
For balancing, the shop's going to need everything from the balancer to the flywheel/flexplate. Bring them the crank, pistons, rods, pins, rings, bearings, everything. All of this stuff will affect the bobweight and will need to be present to properly balance the rotating assembly. Most shops won't let you into the work area due to insurance regulations, so you probably won't be able to watch. Here's a rundown of the balancing process.

Your pistons and rods should all be within a gram of each other. The big end and small end of the rods must be weighed seperately and equalled in weight matching big end to big end and small end to small end. Once we're all equalled out, we need to calculate the bobweight. Calculating bob weights isn't too difficult, but it is necessary to properly balance the engine. Here's a list for determining bobweights for balancing. This is based on an internally ballanced engine. Things change a little bit when you're going external as the flywheel/flexplate and balancer come into play.

Rotating Weight:
Big end of rod (including fastening hardware)
Bearing
Oil (normally estimated at four grams)

Reciprocating Weight:
Piston
Wristpin
Pin locks (if used)
Small end of rod
Piston rings

Bob weight = Rotating Weight + Reciprocating Weight x .50

Once everything is equal and the bobweight is determined, weight is added to the rod journals equalling the bobweight that was calculated earlier. A balance machine is used to specify exactly where the crank needs to be re-worked to bring it into balance. This is done by adding or removing weight from the crank in specific places as determined by the balance machine. To remove weight, the shop will generally drill holes in the counterweight. To add weight gets real expensive real fast. Most crank manufacturers can supply you with a "target bobweight" for their cranks helping you try to pick properly weighted parts to avoid the expense of adding weight to the crank. Shops will add weight in one of two ways. One is to drill a hole in the bottom of the counterweight and press in a slug of "mallory metal" (a tungsten alloy 1.5x heavier than lead and real expensive) and weld it in place so the reciprocating force can't throw it out. The second is to drill a hole parallel to the crank centerline in the counterweight and press in a slug of mallory. The position of the slug keeping it in place. In external balancing, weight is added and removed from the balancer and flywheel/flexplate instead of the crank.

I hope this helps you to understand how things work and will help you in picking the proper parts for your build. As far as reputable shops, there are quite a few in the tri-state are, just do your research carefully. Good luck!
 
internal or external balance?

Internal you don't need the balancer, flexplate, etc.

Crank, rods, pistons/pins, rings, bearings is what's needed for internal balance.

Search google. There was a good article explaining things in a circle track magazine a while back.
 
A gram? Dang The shop I use balances to within .1 of a gram.
 
Whether it's internal or external balance, bring them the hamronic damper and the flexplate if it's an automatic. If it's a stick, bring the flywheel, pressure plate & the fasteners. No need to bring the clutch disc because it is never clocked the same way.

I balanced dozens and dozens of cranks during my machinist career. You can take a perfectly balanced crank assembly and install the damper and flywheel and it throws the entire assembly off.

Once the crank is balanced, you install the damper and make any corrections needed to the damper itself, NOT the crank. That way if you change just the damper at a later date, it will only be off by as much as the damper is off.

Hope this makes sense.
 
To do the internal part you don't need that stuff, HOWEVER, it's a good idea to verify that the stuff you are bolting on is neutral balanced.
 
It is a internal balanced big block. Thanks for the replies. Do the ring end gaps have to be done first and if all the parts have been weight balanced to within a 1/10 of a gram, do I need to take the pistons, rings, bearings and rods or just the weights of each written down? Any recommendations on a shop near Philadelphia, Pa.?
 
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