Engine Build Ideas...PLEASE HELP.

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mrtires24

mrtires24

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Well, I think this winter I will be wanting to do my first rebuild EVER. Last spring, I finished putting together my 440 duster 4 spd. and I am really happy with it. But I grew up on Small blocks, and I can't compare my rebuilt 440 to a tired 318, 340, or 360 now can I?

I know how much all of you like to spend other peoples money.

I have a 1973 dart sport 340 4 spd with 8 3/4 323 open. and the engine is puffing a little blue. Block is 1972. I also have a couple 318's around. all from darts. one all stock, the other with aluminum intake, and cam, and other stuff ( so I have been told)

I also have 2 360 that I have pulled too. one from a 78 cordoba, and the other from a '75 truck ( very good runner )

So my qestion's are...
  1. what should I rebuild 318, 340, 360?
  2. How would you rebuild it? ( try and include how much HP it would make) prices would be cool to
I am looking at a good afordable build that might end up with 350-450 HP

any ideas would be great.

Phil

its time to do research :read2:
 
360
KB107 pistons
Engine Quest Magnum heads
RPM intake
Comp Cam XE274 cam
Holley 750.

Should be good for 425hp.
 
Well if a stroker is kit is around $1100-$1300 And rebuilt heads $550 then reuse your headers and aluminum intake, unless it's a performer, then what engine will give the most cubes with the next overbore?
Maybe the 340 @4.04 +.020=4.06=414ci + .030=4.07=416ci +.040=418ci
If no stroker then you could put 10.2-10.5 comp pistons a cam w/280*dur around .510 lift 110-112cl 58*-62* of overlap[just a guide line] high rise dual or single if u have the gear or 4spd with 830 annular dp holley if your not in the pedal that much then annular 750 dp holley, windage tray & valley baffle block the heat crossover [don't drive it unless fully warmed up]

Last but MOST IMPORTANT get or do some porting on the heads, 230+cfm would be of great help to this combo along w/1.6 rockers fatten flow crv.

I'll play human dyno...435-460 depending on [tune] and dialing out the variables [carb size, intake design, header primary & pipe diameter ect.
Do this to any of your sb's and they will scream.
 
It all depends. the more HP, the more skill and $$ required. If the car is a 340, I would do the 340. A good rebuild with a decent hyper piston, good machining, a performance build will get you the 350hp level easy with basically stock stuff. A 360 needs nothing but the same hyper pistons and a cam to reach 360hp and that's not a big cam. The 450hp level gets more involved, both in ability and cash outlay. Costs for the lower output is about $12/hp, the higher figure will run about $15/hp.
 
Well cause were not dyno tuning it for one and I doubt their dyno is the same as every other and the cam you mentioned isn't that much bigger [Yea I know about the head flow of eq's] and if you would have said comp .525-.540 lift and 280*+ dur I wouldn't have commented.

BTW my fav was the mad scientist 340 [part2] I think?
I used that build as a base line back when it came out but didn't want that particular cam they were using [I used the .528 w/1.6=.533 after lash]
example 380hp rated magnum create really more like 400=292*roller
Even if there was a 10-15 cfm difference between heads the roller and it's profile would make up for that by holding the valve open further and holding it open longer where the heads flow the most.
But hey I'm just a human playing dynometer.lol
I usually shoot for solid for sure #'s that way I never sell something I can't produce, plus It's always much nicer for the customer to be pleasantly surprised they got more hp then they paid for [which is more then not with a mopar]
 
thanks for the replies. I guess I should add. If I do the 340, it will go in my 340, But I also have a 1972 demon with a blown clutch that neeeds some work, So I would put the built 318, or 360 in there. Whatever I build, I will have a place for it.

Thanks for the info so far, looking forward to more.

Phil
 
3404spdvaliant said:
I'd say roller cam but there's a grand right there for an average increase of 25hp. $1000=25hp nnnaahhh.
Click to expand...

Man, you need to find a new engine builder if that is your "average result". I'd call that generalizing way beyond healthy.
 
moper said:
Man, you need to find a new engine builder if that is your "average result". I'd call that generalizing way beyond healthy.
Click to expand...

according to his profile his car has a 390 ported heads and a roller cam but only runs 12.80s. And he seems to really hate the Magnum heads exhaust port.
 
I personally think 340's are cool, and if the car is numbers matching I would just rebuild whats in it. If its not, build the 340 and put it in the demon, and put a 360 in the dart sport. Either way, I dont think the 350 HP barrier is all that difficult to get to. You gotta think, thats just over 1 HP per cube for a 340.
 
340, the point was, generalization means nothing. The cost of a roller seup in an LA is about this: $300 cam, $90 oil pump drive, $400 lifters. Nothing else is different, althought I wont run a solid roller without bushing the lifter bores, which adds $400. BUt, the oreder of power increase is closer to 20%. On 350hp engine, you're right.. it's stupid. On a 550hp engine, that's 110hp difference. And it comes with rpm stability, less internal friction, lower torque peak, and wider power peaks. Not to mention the oil quality issues with aggressive flat tappets. $1000 on a $5000 budget is a lot. $1000 on a 9K budget isnt a huge deal to a guy who knows what it takes to make real power. For a lower output, you can always go hydraulic retrofit roller. It's not anything I ususally do. But that can be had for about $300 more than a comparable flat tappet setup when buying all new parts.
 
I understand what u[moper] are saying.
But I don't think we are talking about 9k and 550hp.
When you go roller every thing goes up $ wise 'springs' pushrods for 240lbs-460lbs spring pressures.
Believe that it costs more than '$300' & '$400' & $90
Add springs, push rods,+tax/ship=$1000 long Valves + machining in some
cases.IMO
I would like to chat more but I gotta go.
 
Sorry, small roller springs run about $20-30 more than the springs you'd use with a XE274 and up 914 (roller) vs 995 (XE). It's about $50-75 more for springs, retainers and locators (if needed) to go roller... Maybe. You're going to be in for $ in machining anyways whichever head you use when running anything in excess of .500 lift for the most part.

The biggest cost in upping to a roller is the cam and lifters. The other parts are only marginally more expensive.
 
When I priced a solid roller set up [kit] from comp was $960
If anyone knows where to get a quality [for the street] solid roller kit for cheaper clue me/us in.
 
You guys are getting into a debate about rollerrized cam, lifters, and I don't think thats in the budget.

I'm kinda thinking of doing the 340. keeping the crank and rods.
Heads seam expensive, but prob the best way to make some HP, instead of buying some aluminum heads, can I make my 1972 340 heads bigger, and better.

thinking about this engine Kit for $634
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=FEM-MKP-713A300&autoview=sku

Mopar purple cam for $187
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=DCC-4452782&autoview=sku

My exhaust isn't guna hold up much longer, and its only 2 inch , if that. so I will buy the summit 2.5 inch for $200
http://store.summitracing.com/partd...840100+4294923429+4294908090+115&autoview=sku

I have a couple Aluminum intakes kicking around. and I have a brand new 650 carb on the car right now. ( I know, It's not guna be big enough, but I want to do a cheap build.

What kind of HP might that be 300? 350?


So what would the machining costs be on the block? and what needs to be done to the block?

as well as What can be done to the heads.?

and if I were to go make a BIG purchase, would it be better to buy aluminum heads, or a stroker kit?

Like I said, I have never done a rebuild befor, so this is a learning experience for me. :book:

Thanks ahead of time.

Phil
 
Hey Adam. you might be a little short.
I picked up the Oct Popular Hot Rodding today and they have a build of an LA 318 with EQ heads.
I havent read the artical in depth yet.
The quick is zero deck, Comp XE275hl, 1.6 rockers, 1.92/1.625 out of the box EQs, EDDY Performer RPM airgap, Holly 750 and MSD.
Dynod 402hp@6300
Then they threw on a pair of 2.02 ported EQs and got 425@6200

Makes me wanna build a 360 and sell the 340 for seed.
 
3404spdvaliant said:
When I priced a solid roller set up [kit] from comp was $960
If anyone knows where to get a quality [for the street] solid roller kit for cheaper clue me/us in.
Click to expand...

Apparently you didn't comprehend what was written so, lets see if we can do the math here...

Roller kit $960
XE274 Kit $475
Diff about $500

Cam difference
Roller 275
Hyd 125
Diff 150

Lifters
Roller 410
Hyd 90
Diff 320

Total diff for cam and lifters ~$470 of the $500 total difference.

If you need anything else, please let me know. :-D

BTW, my 70 340 Dart with a 4 speed hyd cam, LD340, 750 vac holley, headers and MSD can run 102mph and is only .5 behind your roller cammed stroker car.

Everyone in here is pretty cool, but, you are coming off as a bit of a know it all. Some of us have been running 9's for close to 25 years, back when running that number was quite an accomplishment. Enjoy the site. :-D
 
crackedback said:
360
KB107
j heads
XE268
LD340
750 holley

Made 350hp and 400tq and got 20MPG on a freeway cruise with 3.00 gears, 904 with 2500 stall hughes convertor.
Click to expand...

Phil,

The above build was done by Brian at Indio Motor for right around 3K + dyno time. If you have an intake/carb/ignition/exhaust you could easily get a decent set up for around 3K. The car with a 2.94 ran 14.15 at 102.50 or so in 95* heat weighs 3250. The car is getting some gear and needs carb tuning. We figure if it can hook it will run very low 13's to high 12's at 104-105.

Check out those builds I posted in the earlier link.
 
crackedback said:
Apparently you didn't comprehend what was written so, lets see if we can do the math here...

Roller kit $960
XE274 Kit $475
Diff about $500

Cam difference
Roller 275
Hyd 125
Diff 150

Lifters
Roller 410
Hyd 90
Diff 320

Total diff for cam and lifters ~$470 of the $500 total difference.

If you need anything else, please let me know. :-D

BTW, my 70 340 Dart with a 4 speed hyd cam, LD340, 750 vac holley, headers and MSD can run 102mph and is only .5 behind your roller cammed stroker car.

Everyone in here is pretty cool, but, you are coming off as a bit of a know it all. Some of us have been running 9's for close to 25 years, back when running that number was quite an accomplishment. Enjoy the site. :-D
Click to expand...

Wow, sorry to hurt your feelings by looking at something in a different way.
 
Yeah, you hurt my feewings... get real. LMAO

You made a comment about the OTHER parts and the expense of those parts that were required to run a roller. I just pointed out that the ancilliary parts aren't the cause of the price difference. If you don't get it, that may explain things.

Have a good night and please try to no longer pollute Phil's thread. :cheers:
 
360 short block stock add eddy alum. heads,M1 intake,750 demon,comp cams 230/236 at 0.050 custom grind on a 110 degree lobe separation,valve lift at 0.576/0.571,MSD ign. some good headders and you could be pushin 425-450 hp.Just read it in Engine Masters.Sounds like a reasonably priced build and they didn,t even touch the bottom end,which you already have.Just my 2 cents.Good Luck with whatever you choose to do.Keep us posted!!
 
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