Fast ratio pitman arm for small sector shaft

[Steve Kranz]

Looking to add a fast ratio pitman arm to my small sector shaft (1 1/8) steering box. Heard they are no longer available (according to Firm Feel Steering). Only for the larger 1 1/4 in shaft. Anyone know if one is still around for sale? Thanks!

 

[72bluNblu]

Firm Feel would know, I think Hotchkis and Firm Feel are the only ones that make the fast ratio arms anymore.

What car is this going on? Because on an A- body there’s not much you can run for exhaust or oil pans with the fast ratio arms.

 

[Steve Kranz]

68 Barracuda. Stock pan and TTI shorty headers. Talked to Gordon at Firm Feel. Said the fast ratio arm and link will work. Also found a 73+ center link which they say is also required...
Was looking around and saw some fast arms indicating a 1 1/8 sector shaft. I could be mistaken tho...

 

[72bluNblu]

68 Barracuda. Stock pan and TTI shorty headers. Talked to Gordon at Firm Feel. Said the fast ratio arm and link will work. Also found a 73+ center link which they say is also required...
Was looking around and saw some fast arms indicating a 1 1/8 sector shaft. I could be mistaken tho...

If it needs a ‘73+ center link it will be for a large sector box. The fast ratio arms are for power steering boxes and 73+ was all large sector. The center link is needed because the 73+ pitman and idler have the tapers pointing the opposite direction from the 67-72 pitman and idler.

Have you asked TTI about fast ratio steering arm clearance with the TTI shorties? Because I don’t believe TTI advertises them as working with the fast ratio arms.

 

[Steve Kranz]

Excellent information! Thanks!
Apparently I will need to get the 73+ center link and likely a new large sector box (!!$$$!!) if I want fast ratio.
I'll check with TTI on clearance. The shorties appear to have lots of room with the single tube head pipes, but...
Hell, I may as well get tubular upper arms too!
Thanks again!

 

[Steve Kranz]

Yup. You are correct. Will have to dimple the headers somewhat. But it's worth it for getting fast ratio...
If they only made a rack and pinion kit for the A body. (Unisteer on my 69 Mustang is excellent!)

 

[72bluNblu]

Yup. You are correct. Will have to dimple the headers somewhat. But it's worth it for getting fast ratio...
If they only made a rack and pinion kit for the A body. (Unisteer on my 69 Mustang is excellent!)

Yeah I tried the TTI shorties on my Duster, there really isn’t much clearance at that head pipe.

They used to make a Unisteer rack for the Mopars but the resulting steering geometry was terrible, I believe it was discontinued because of that.

A-bodies really aren’t good candidates for the fast ratio steering arms. You’d be better off with a Borgeson power steering box (14:1) to lower the ratio vs factory (16:1). The other option would be a steering quickener, although that would require modifying the steering column. The Hotchkis Challenger used a steering quickener for a final ratio of 12:1, same as the fast ratio arms.

Howe Racing 5225 Howe Steering Quickeners | Summit Racing

 

[Steve Kranz]

Talked to Matt at Firm Feel. My combination of 73 disc spindles with 68 control arms, ball joints and center link may be causing the issue. Taught me to lift the front and check the movement between the steering input and pitman arm. More investigation ahead.

She's beautiful, but still has a few bugs...

 

[Bewy]

The centre to centre length of the Pitman arm should be the same as the centre to centre length of the idler arm to keep the geometry correct.

 

[Steve Kranz]

Good point. I will check that out. Both arms are new stock parts for the 1968 A body. But you never know. Thanks!

 

[Kendog 170]

How about these?
Mopar A B & E Body Quick Ratio Pitman & Idler Arm Kit - Just Suspension

 

[Steve Kranz]

Thought of another issue that could be the cause of my initial gripe: sloppy steering response. (The fast ratio option will be nice, but maybe I should start with a simpler approach.)
I have 73+ disc brake spindles, but I am still using the 68 pitman, idler and center link. Wonder if this could be the cause of the poor steering response? Adding the 73+ link and arms might help?
I also found a Moog pitman arm (K7075) for the 73+ link that apparently fits the small sector shaft.

 

[72bluNblu]

Thought of another issue that could be the cause of my initial gripe: sloppy steering response. (The fast ratio option will be nice, but maybe I should start with a simpler approach.)
I have 73+ disc brake spindles, but I am still using the 68 pitman, idler and center link. Wonder if this could be the cause of the poor steering response? Adding the 73+ link and arms might help?
I also found a Moog pitman arm (K7075) for the 73+ link that apparently fits the small sector shaft.

Sloppy steering and changing the steering ratio are completely different things. Changing the steering ratio won't fix sloppy steering unless the actual steering box internals are the issue.

Sloppy steering is usually just caused by worn out parts - the steering coupler, tie rod ends, pitman and idler arm ends, etc. In some cases a loose steering box bolts or even a cracked steering box mount on the K-frame can be the culprit.

 

[rklein383]

Talked to Matt at Firm Feel. My combination of 73 disc spindles with 68 control arms, ball joints and center link may be causing the issue. Taught me to lift the front and check the movement between the steering input and pitman arm. More investigation ahead.

She's beautiful, but still has a few bugs...

View attachment 1716430806

View attachment 1716430807

Love the car. Here is a pic of my 69 383-S four speed that had a fast ratio steering box. Sold the car about five years back to fund my 71 Barracuda project.

 

[Steve Kranz]

Nothing like B5 Blue. (Or other codes. QQ something?)

 

[Steve Kranz]

Are the Moog offset upper control arm bushings (to allow for more positive caster) any good? Anyone tired them? Thanks!

 

[rklein383]

Nothing like B5 Blue. (Or other codes. QQ something?)

yep, B5

 

[S'cuder]

Looking to add a fast ratio pitman arm to my small sector shaft (1 1/8) steering box. Heard they are no longer available (according to Firm Feel Steering). Only for the larger 1 1/4 in shaft. Anyone know if one is still around for sale? Thanks!

Proforged still has a 1-1/8" sector shaft fast ratio (longer) pitman arm and matching idler arm. Pictures and scuttlebutt indicate they are the same as sold by Hotchkis. These show the studs pointing down, so you'd need to use the 1973-76 center link. There will be fitment issues. For instance, Summit lists the pitman arm with all those that fit a '68 Barracuda but when click the "will it fit" button, you get a big red NO! And you're aware of the probable exhaust interference.

Proforged 116-10026 Fast Ratio Pitman and Idler Arm Kit - Proforged https://share.google/W0LBOCmbq6oTF2grX

Proforged Chassis Parts 103-10031 Proforged Fast Ratio Pitman Arms | Summit Racing

Proforged Chassis Parts 102-10063 Proforged Fast Ratio Idler Arms | Summit Racing

Are the Moog offset upper control arm bushings (to allow for more positive caster) any good? Anyone tired them? Thanks!

Yes, they work. You'll get 2, maybe 3° of additional positive caster. That'll make a noticeable difference in a street cruiser.
If you plan to autocross, road race, etc., you'll want more though. Then upgrading to aftermarket upper control arms which are engineered to have more positive caster is the sensible move. Several are available, including from Firm Feel.
The ultimate are adjustable UCAs as sold by FABO member Peter Bergman.
SPC 2.0 FORGED UPPER CONTROL ARM - Bergman Auto Craft SPC 2.0 FORGED UPPER CONTROL ARM - Bergman Auto Craft

 

[junkyardhero]

Are the Moog offset upper control arm bushings (to allow for more positive caster) any good? Anyone tired them? Thanks!

yes!

i install them on all of the arms that i refurbish and sell. i consider them a necessary upgrade for these cars.

 

[autoxcuda]

Are the Moog offset upper control arm bushings (to allow for more positive caster) any good? Anyone tired them? Thanks!

Yes, I ran them for years.

But again, that won't fix truly worn suspension pieces.

But will aid in the steering "feel".

There's nothing wrong with the 68 Idler/Centerlink/Pitman combo. BUT if you are replacing your steering box (and especially if you have an old idler & pitman too), I would convert to a large sector box and the 73-73 Idler/Centerlink/Pitman combo because replacement idler and pitman are easier and cheaper to find.

I think the Borgansen conversion box is better money spent than a rebuilt steering box with old gears in it. And you would save the extra money of the long pitman and idler vs stock stuff prices.

 

[Steve Kranz]

Excellent advice from all of you! You found several parts that offer many options.
All of my current parts are new, so excessive wear should not not be an issue. I may also be confusing the issue by discussing both the excessive steering slop and my plan to add fast ratio parts (thought fast ratio may solve the sloppy steering, but they are definitely separate issues, as I was told).
In addition, I currently have 73+ spindles and 68 standard pitman and idler arms, that may (?) present a problem.
At this stage, I was planning on adding the 73 center link (have one coming) and adding the fast ratio arms (and dimpling the TTI head pipe for clearance). May not fix the steering slop issue, but might be worth a try. The Firm Feel box is new as is the coupling joint (no slop there).
Then there is the option of the offset upper control arm bushings to improve the camber specs...
I'll get there. Sooner or later! Thanks again for all your advice!

 

[65TerrorCuda]

Are the Moog offset upper control arm bushings (to allow for more positive caster) any good? Anyone tired them? Thanks!

They didn't fit and they wouldn't lift a finger after taking my money. No to Moog for this hot rodder. Nothing like original, the Moogs are shorter and fatter. Maybe they'll fix it someday but they'll never get my cash again.

 

[autoxcuda]

...
In addition, I currently have 73+ spindles and 68 standard pitman and idler arms, that may (?) present a problem.
....

Those are no problem whatsoever. If they are new and it good shape, there is another issue.

You said you had a mustang with Unisteer. Have you owned an old Mopar previous to this one? With power steering?

At this stage, I was planning on adding the 73 center link (have one coming) and adding the fast ratio arms (and dimpling the TTI head pipe for clearance). May not fix the steering slop issue, but might be worth a try. The Firm Feel box is new as is the coupling joint (no slop there).

Firm Feel boxes are rebuilt 40-60 year old OE units. They do not change the gears themselves. Just bushings, bearings, balls, seal, and reaction springs, etc. They are not like 100% all new inside.

Then there is the option of the offset upper control arm bushings to improve the camber specs...
I'll get there. Sooner or later! Thanks again for all your advice!

The main objective to the offset bushings is to improve your caster

Do you have your alignment results you got after you installed your previous replacement parts? That might point to something.

 

[Steve Kranz]

1. had a 72 Challenger with all new steering parts and a Firm Feel box #2 Firmness. Worked great.
2. The alignment specs appear to be okay. Described them to Matt at Firm Feel and he had no negative feedback. Attached pics.
3. The offset bushings I thought might be an improvement. Still may not resolve the sloppy steering issue tho.
Again, thanks for your advice!

 

[autoxcuda]

3.6 and 4.2 positive caster is very good.
Does it have offset bushing already installed

The little over 1/2 caster split isn’t perfect but ok.

Does have a Firm Feel steering box in it now?

It is totally capable of driving like your challenger. A large number of front end parts interchange between them. And most I’m the other parts you’d have to measure or look at letter stampings to tell them apart.