That's weird. That's the same transmission I've got, TUET11009. Mine's an American Powertrain unit bought through Summit in 2016
Finally get to pretend I am one of the cool kids - Holley kit swap
- Thread starter DionR
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That's weird. That's the same transmission I've got, TUET11009. Mine's an American Powertrain unit bought through Summit in 2016
DionR
Well-Known Member
Pretty pleased. Long ways to go, need to get it tacked together without turning it into a banana, but a quick fit up and a couple of clamps has me pretty happy.
Looks like a good start to me!
Looks Great! I see that you have points to help with jigging up. Would it help to widen the pressed plate and add interlocking tabs to the front and rear plate? And maybe where the trans mount tab connects to the crossmember, just for consistent locating. Just curious. I understand this is just the prototype in works.
If it's ok to ask.. what did that order cost?
Also.. you need add some kinda logo or design into it to make it recognizable and give it some flare. Maybe cut it into the side angle flats. When I did Hooptys mount, we just cut some patterns into it.. but if you have a logo, that would be awesome.
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DionR
Well-Known Member
I went into the project with the idea that I would tab everything so it would just kind of clip together. Then I realized that I would have to weld the inside of the parts or do butt welds. So I changed directions to just some triangles and an easy fillet weld in all locations. I did tab the upper part that has to be bent by hand so it starts in the right location since I am planning to start in the middle and work both ways. But other than that, I feel like triangles is the better solution in this case. And I have to say the parts pretty close to just fell together. The lower crossmember only needs one clamp to hold it all, even though I will probably add more before tacking it together.
I didn't locate the mount on the lower crossmember for 2 reasons. For one, I didn't want to be locked into a location in case I got it wrong and secondly, I plan to offer this to people and expect that my location could be just a bit different than theirs. I could see adding some piercings to use as alignment checks or even just welding the thing together but it feels like it should be loose. Maybe I am overthinking it though since there could be issues with the lower crossmember not clearing if someone were to have their transmission in a fairly different location than mine. I will have to think on that. In the end, mine will get bolted to the transmission mount and snugged up to the crossmember and tacked together before finish welding it on the bench.
Just checked the cost and if I were to order it today it would be $288 for everything. I think this is up a little from 10 days ago as it seems like it was more like $282 then. I paid about $240 for mine though as I used a discount code from a YouTuber and no idea if that would work a second time.
I thought I would offer the kit for $350 shipped to someone's door. Not a bunch of profit in it for me, but a little. Maybe what I should do is set a dollar amount and then just add that to whatever SendCutSend is charging when I order it. I plan to reach out to them and talk to them about doing this as a business and see if it changes things too. Either way, as material costs fluctuate, it might be safer to not set a total until someone wants to order.
The other idea might be to offer the upper crossmember only. That kit is $130 for materials so maybe $170 total? If this one worked for a standard motor location, someone could at least have an upper crossmember and only need to build their own lower one.
Maybe I am being too transparent. But if this happens I am under no illusions that I am going to sell many of these nor am I ever going to get rich doing it.
Nice thing about having this all in a computer model is there are a bunch of things I could do with it. For example, SendCutSend does fiberboard and ABS so mockup parts could be sent to someone before ordering steel. A chipboard sample of the side profile would be less than $5, unfortunately shipping would kill that at $31. I could even send it in 0.187" ABS matching the actual part for about the same total. Or a pdf could be emailed and printed out so it could be cut out of cardboard much like I did my initial mockups. So, in theory, it would be kind of easy to work with someone on design changes if they had a different configuration.
I wish you had mentioned that earlier, that is a great idea. I would have loved to have added a logo to this one but didn't think about it. I do have a company name if I started one, but it isn't set in stone and I haven't put much thought into a logo. Not that I haven't thought about one, only that I haven't put much effort into it.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Tripped over this picture yesterday that @340sFastback posted a couple of years ago while looking for E-
Body ToddRon crossmember pictures.
So I set my mockup upper crossmember up and snapped a similar picture.
Not the towering inferno I expected mine to be. Not saying they are the same, only that the height is closer than I expected.
My theory is that while my motor is maybe 3/4" higher than stock (bummer, but it is what it is), I am guessing the trans is in about the same spot vertically at the tailshaft. This would mean I have a bit more angle to mine than maybe is stock, I am at 3 degrees down. I spent way too much time agonizing over slope of the engine and measured driveline angles and did layouts for way too long, so I am comfortable with where it landed. But it is probably a different angle than where a stock motor T56 swap would land, thus (maybe?) resulting in the transmission being in a similar location in the end.
Body ToddRon crossmember pictures.
So I set my mockup upper crossmember up and snapped a similar picture.
Not the towering inferno I expected mine to be. Not saying they are the same, only that the height is closer than I expected.
My theory is that while my motor is maybe 3/4" higher than stock (bummer, but it is what it is), I am guessing the trans is in about the same spot vertically at the tailshaft. This would mean I have a bit more angle to mine than maybe is stock, I am at 3 degrees down. I spent way too much time agonizing over slope of the engine and measured driveline angles and did layouts for way too long, so I am comfortable with where it landed. But it is probably a different angle than where a stock motor T56 swap would land, thus (maybe?) resulting in the transmission being in a similar location in the end.
Good stuff.. Here's a thought. You might check some of your local steel shops that may be using cad. If I had files for my guy, he can cut about anything. He drew outl my mounts from my cardboard templates to cad. Then he cut everything for me and I don't think I had a $100 in it all. But, I do alot of business with them and have developed a pretty good relationship.
DionR
Well-Known Member
There is a local shop that can do laser cutting, but they don't appear to offer bending like SendCutSend does. The other nice thing about using SendCutSend is I put the order in and I am done. They box and ship it from there and I don't have to spend 1-2 hours coming up with a box and getting it packed.
Something to keep in mind though.
I will say.. very nice looking material. The design is very eye appealing as well.
Something that HDK offered with his 8HP member was a template of where to cut and drill. I believe it was made out of 18 gauge and spanned across the crossmember, connecting the 2 outter holes. Had hash marks in it for where to cut and locater holes for relocating the 2 inner holes. A guy could get by without it but it was a nice addition and took any doubt away.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Guess who learned he needs to slow down and pay more attention last night?
Tacked the bottom crossmember together backwards
. I've spent some time thinking about fixes so that doesn't happen to someone else, but seems like they all have drawbacks so not sure what if anything I will change yet.
Fortunately got it cut apart and was able to tack it back together correctly.
Even got the mount tacked on. Had the welder out and plugged in, so why not.
Well, why not was because I haven't drilled the inner holes in the original crossmember yet. The new parts are setup to kind of float around the outer holes until the inner holes are drilled. The smart move is to get those drilled and everything kind of locked down, maybe even go so far as to weld the upper crossmember in solid, before tacking the mount to the lower crossmember. Ugh. So now I have to decide if I am going to just try and get it all fitted up and the mount lined up again and drill the holes, or am I going to cut the tacks on the mounts.
This issue adds to the idea that I shouldn't fix the mount location and that it should be located and tacked when it is in the car.
Here is the upper crossmember tacked and in situ.
I've got some design changes to do there as well, but just minor tweaks. The slots on the upper part are off about 0.08" which made it a bit of a pain to finish one end, so I think I am going to dump that feature entirely and tweak the lengths. And I am going to add a mark to one end of the vertical parts to make it easier to make sure that plate is oriented correctly. But overall that part went well enough.
Tacked the bottom crossmember together backwards
. I've spent some time thinking about fixes so that doesn't happen to someone else, but seems like they all have drawbacks so not sure what if anything I will change yet.Fortunately got it cut apart and was able to tack it back together correctly.
Even got the mount tacked on. Had the welder out and plugged in, so why not.
Well, why not was because I haven't drilled the inner holes in the original crossmember yet. The new parts are setup to kind of float around the outer holes until the inner holes are drilled. The smart move is to get those drilled and everything kind of locked down, maybe even go so far as to weld the upper crossmember in solid, before tacking the mount to the lower crossmember. Ugh. So now I have to decide if I am going to just try and get it all fitted up and the mount lined up again and drill the holes, or am I going to cut the tacks on the mounts.
This issue adds to the idea that I shouldn't fix the mount location and that it should be located and tacked when it is in the car.
Here is the upper crossmember tacked and in situ.
I've got some design changes to do there as well, but just minor tweaks. The slots on the upper part are off about 0.08" which made it a bit of a pain to finish one end, so I think I am going to dump that feature entirely and tweak the lengths. And I am going to add a mark to one end of the vertical parts to make it easier to make sure that plate is oriented correctly. But overall that part went well enough.
Could they simply etch in some letters to your kit to indicate Front/Rear/Driver/Pass/etc? Maybe easier than actually changing any real dims of the parts.
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Was thinking the same thing. I believe SendCutSend has an option to etch parts not all the way through, though I guess it's just as easy to cut the whole letter out if it's small enough. I'd put an L and R between the bolt holes on the plate. Could probably also make a really simple exploded view drawing to go with each kit that shows a basic picture of the parts to help even more at limited investment.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I don't see an option for scribing or etching.
I thought about adding a "D" or "P" to one end, but then I realized I put it together with all the parts oriented correctly, I just had the front and back reversed. Think of your hands held palm to palm with your thumbs up, and then hold them back to back again with your thumbs up. Your hands haven't changed orientation, but they don't work so good. I think it is a good idea to add a mark to the parts just to make it easier to orient them, but it won't solve the issue I created last night.
I thought about moving the alignment tabs around so that putting the parts together wrong would cause them to crash. The hiccup in that idea is that if the center is flipped before it is bent, it will create the same issue since the part still work fine but now the tabs will be wrong and force the parts to the wrong side. If the part isn't symmetrical, maybe SendCutSend is careful to bend them in the same way they are sent? I would guess that is the case. Maybe that idea would still work.
Definitely something that needs to be included in the documentation.
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340sFastback
Well-Known Member
Are you going to add tubes inside bolt holes so when cross member bolts are tightened it doesn't crush cross member? I used 1 inch square tubing welded in when I did mine. That way I can tighten bolts good with no crushing. You want those bolts tight cause your gonna be burning tires grabbing gears.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Yep. You can actually see it in the background of the last 2 pictures. 5/8 OD x .120 wall, might be overkill as it looks beefier than I expected when I picked it up. I haven't cut them to length yet and they need to be tacked in while it is in the car and after the inner holes are drilled in the original crossmember.
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Took me a while to find it, but I think this is the page I was thinking of regarding "etching" Single Line Etching | SendCutSend
I think it's more of a "laser's width" cut than a true etch. I think you can only do one side though, but you might be able to use that still. Depending on how you drew it you could have something like "FR" front "front rear" and RR for "rear rear". If you had the parts rotated 180 the text would be backwards as well, so you wouldn't necessarily need to mark it left and right. Or you could just put numbers on each part and have that correspond to the drawing.
I think it's more of a "laser's width" cut than a true etch. I think you can only do one side though, but you might be able to use that still. Depending on how you drew it you could have something like "FR" front "front rear" and RR for "rear rear". If you had the parts rotated 180 the text would be backwards as well, so you wouldn't necessarily need to mark it left and right. Or you could just put numbers on each part and have that correspond to the drawing.
Beefy! Looks great bud! If I had a dollar for every time I've had to cut tack welds loose... Yea, millioniare!!Guess who learned he needs to slow down and pay more attention last night?
View attachment 1716374752
Tacked the bottom crossmember together backwards
Fortunately got it cut apart and was able to tack it back together correctly.
View attachment 1716374753
Even got the mount tacked on. Had the welder out and plugged in, so why not.
Well, why not was because I haven't drilled the inner holes in the original crossmember yet. The new parts are setup to kind of float around the outer holes until the inner holes are drilled. The smart move is to get those drilled and everything kind of locked down, maybe even go so far as to weld the upper crossmember in solid, before tacking the mount to the lower crossmember. Ugh. So now I have to decide if I am going to just try and get it all fitted up and the mount lined up again and drill the holes, or am I going to cut the tacks on the mounts.
This issue adds to the idea that I shouldn't fix the mount location and that it should be located and tacked when it is in the car.
Here is the upper crossmember tacked and in situ.
View attachment 1716374751
View attachment 1716374756
I've got some design changes to do there as well, but just minor tweaks. The slots on the upper part are off about 0.08" which made it a bit of a pain to finish one end, so I think I am going to dump that feature entirely and tweak the lengths. And I am going to add a mark to one end of the vertical parts to make it easier to make sure that plate is oriented correctly. But overall that part went well enough.
View attachment 1716374794
View attachment 1716374797
View attachment 1716374795
DionR
Well-Known Member
Thanks!
I was looking for a service, but looks like it is more of an imbedded feature of the file you send them. Currently I am uploading .step files and I am betting they don't have that feature. But I will keep it in mind.
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
Yeah I see that rube laying there now. Your on it. Love have nice that cross member looks very impressive!!
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
The other thing I did was drill a drain hole in each of the anti-crush-bolt-tubes before welding them in. Not necessary but allows any moisture to drain out and easy to do.
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
I'm a little late for this but it might be worth seeing if this one is accurate. Way cheaper than others.
DionR
Well-Known Member
While I had everything out I laid the old crossmember section I cut out under the new one just to see how much taller my crossmember is now. Looks like an honest 3".
Hmm ... after looking at the picture above, I wonder if it is actually less than 3". Might have to make sure they are both square to each other and remeasure.
Progress is slow, but I am making some. And learning how to weld some more.
I went ahead and set the parts back in place and lined everything up and got my inner holes drilled. Then I got my crush sleeves cut and tacked. I pulled it all out after that and using washers to take up the space between the upper and lower crossmember, I bolted them together solid so they didn't move around too much when welding them up.
First thing I learned about welding is that opening the bottle doesn't mean you have shielding gas if your regulator is turned all the way out. I am glad to say I felt like something was off with my spot welds, so even if I didn't know what it was at least I knew it was wrong.
After figuring out my issue with the regulator I did some test welds and got some input from a good friend who is a welder. I needed even more gas than I was using, needed to slow down and needed different settings for the thin top plate. With that I got the crossmembers welded up. I am not a welder and this is my first real welding project so it is kind of ugly to my eyes. But I did it myself and am proud of that.
It's going to take some cleanup for sure, even more than just knocking the bb's off it. But I think in the end it will look fine and structurally it is good. I've got one spot I will probably touch up before I weld it into the car, but I am getting close. Hoping to get the upper crossmember welded in this weekend, but time will tell.
Slow progress is better than no progress.
Hmm ... after looking at the picture above, I wonder if it is actually less than 3". Might have to make sure they are both square to each other and remeasure.
Progress is slow, but I am making some. And learning how to weld some more.
I went ahead and set the parts back in place and lined everything up and got my inner holes drilled. Then I got my crush sleeves cut and tacked. I pulled it all out after that and using washers to take up the space between the upper and lower crossmember, I bolted them together solid so they didn't move around too much when welding them up.
First thing I learned about welding is that opening the bottle doesn't mean you have shielding gas if your regulator is turned all the way out. I am glad to say I felt like something was off with my spot welds, so even if I didn't know what it was at least I knew it was wrong.
After figuring out my issue with the regulator I did some test welds and got some input from a good friend who is a welder. I needed even more gas than I was using, needed to slow down and needed different settings for the thin top plate. With that I got the crossmembers welded up. I am not a welder and this is my first real welding project so it is kind of ugly to my eyes. But I did it myself and am proud of that.
It's going to take some cleanup for sure, even more than just knocking the bb's off it. But I think in the end it will look fine and structurally it is good. I've got one spot I will probably touch up before I weld it into the car, but I am getting close. Hoping to get the upper crossmember welded in this weekend, but time will tell.
Slow progress is better than no progress.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Sure enough, there is something fishy about the 3" measurement above. If I flip them over, I get something like 2.375" difference in height.
So I stood them both up and got them kind of square and located and looks like I am 2.75" taller than stock.
Not that it matters much. Just something I was curious about.
So I stood them both up and got them kind of square and located and looks like I am 2.75" taller than stock.
Not that it matters much. Just something I was curious about.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Here is my solution to getting the plates on the wrong side on the lower crossmember:
There are now half tabs that help to locate the parts side to side and if the parts are on the wrong side they won't allow the parts to nest. I also added a triangle to all the DS ends of the parts except for the inner skin of the upper crossmember.
Assuming the bottom of the lower crossmember isn't broke backwards, it should make it fairly easy to get it all in the correct orientation.
There are now half tabs that help to locate the parts side to side and if the parts are on the wrong side they won't allow the parts to nest. I also added a triangle to all the DS ends of the parts except for the inner skin of the upper crossmember.
Assuming the bottom of the lower crossmember isn't broke backwards, it should make it fairly easy to get it all in the correct orientation.
Thats kinda sexy...
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