First stroker build – could use some expert advice

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Dart Vadr

Dart Vadr

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Thanks for taking a look at my post. I recently retired from the U.S. Military and I finally have the time and money to build my 1967 Dodge Dart GT (which has been in storage for the past 20 years) the way I want it. I've found a chassis/body shop that will media blast the car, replace any bad metal, install a chassis stiffening kit, mini-tub the rear, install an RMS Street-Lynx 4-link, and return the car to me in epoxy primer. I plan to run a Strange Dana 60 with 3.73 gears, 27" diameter 295/45-17 tires, and a Keisler 4-speed automatic with 3.06:1, 1.63:1, 1.0:1, and 0.70:1 gear ratio's (stall speed TBD – will be matched to engine). Believe the curb weight of the car is roughly 3,300 pounds with me in it, but it may end up weighing slightly more or less after the body and engine have been modified.

This car is going to be a street car – I doubt it will ever see any track time. Like everyone, I'd like the engine to make plenty of horsepower, but I'd really like to bias the engine toward generating a monster torque curve. I'd also like to be able to take it out on the highway and cruise at 2,200 to 2,300 RPM (70MPH with a 0.70:1 overdrive) for a few hours at a time without encountering major drivability issues. Lastly, one of my overarching design goals is that the car be as bulletproof as possible and that the car require minimal maintenance – I like to wrench on cars as much as the next guy, but I'm getting older and I'd like to enjoy driving the car as much as possible.

On to the engine... I'd like to build a 408 CID stroker motor that can run on 93 octane pump gas at sea level. My proposed build sheet is as follows:

Block: Fully machined 360 (probably 0.030 over with pistons set at zero deck height and oiling system mods as necessary)
Crank: 4" stroke forged K1
Rods: K1 H-beam
Pistons: Mahle forged of 4032 aluminum with a 16cc inverted dome
Heads: Dr J's Airwolf 220 aluminum with 64cc chambers
Intake: Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap – deep port matched
Cam: Lunati 20200713 Voodoo retrofit hydraulic roller cam (243/251 duration @ 0.050, 0.560/0.565 lift, 110 degree LSA)
Rockers: Competition Cams Pro Magnum shaft-mounted chromemoly rockers
Distributor gear: Crane 69970-1 Melonited (won't have to run a bronze distributor drive gear)
Timing Chain: Rollmaster timing chain
Timing chain Tensioner: Cloyes
Oil pan and pickup: Kevko
Oil pump: Standard volume Melling
Damper: Fluidampr
Water pump: Flowkooler
Fasteners: ARP studs everywhere
Gaskets: Cometic
Induction: FAST EZ-EFI 2.0
Exhaust: TTI 1 3/4 step headers
Ignition: MSD Digital 6AL ignition

I've calculated the static compression of this engine with .039 thick head gaskets at 10.42:1 and I've calculated the dynamic compression ratio at 8.54:1 with the above mentioned cam, so I think that it'll run on premium pump gas without issues. I've heard that pistons forged of 4032 aluminum can run tighter tolerances than those forged of 2618 aluminum, so I picked these pistons with the thought that they might offer slightly better durability in a long-term street engine. Also, I like the flow numbers of the Dr. J's heads and the price seems reasonable. Thoughts from the experts? About the cam, I was very impressed by the torque curve of the engine at the link below (the second dyno sheet). I've also heard good things about the Lunati Voodoo line and the duration specs seem to be somewhat tame for a stroker build. Again, thoughts? Lastly, I'd really like to run a 340 replacement block instead of a 360 block (remember, I want this thing to be bulletproof), but they seem to have lifter bar clearance issues with hydraulic roller cams. I understand that I'd have to make some changes if I went this direction. I'd appreciate any and all advice and constructive criticism that people are willing to throw my way. Thanks for your time!

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=263442
 
Looks good - in regard to the lifter bar issue - use the Comp lifters designed by OU812. I think they clear without clearancing. There is water VERY close to the surface features that hit "normal" lifter bars.
 
moper said:
Looks good - in regard to the lifter bar issue - use the Comp lifters designed by OU812. I think they clear without clearancing. There is water VERY close to the surface features that hit "normal" lifter bars.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice, Moper! Does Comp Cams sell the lifters you're referring to (Comp Cams 8920-16?) or are they available exclusively from OU812? Part number? Thanks again!
 
Curious as to what vaccum a combo like this will make, would it be enought to run the Fast Ez Efi ?
Ive got similar build with slightly less cam, hyd roller 239/242 @ 0.50 0.585" lift on a 112, that makes 11-12" hg, im thinking about changing the cam but worried about not enough vaccum as also run EZ efi.
 
onetorun said:
Curious as to what vaccum a combo like this will make, would it be enought to run the Fast Ez Efi ?
Ive got similar build with slightly less cam, hyd roller 239/242 @ 0.50 0.585" lift on a 112, that makes 11-12" hg, im thinking about changing the cam but worried about not enough vaccum as also run EZ efi.
Click to expand...

Great question. FAST recommends at least eight inches of vacuum.
 
If you run the comp 8920-16 lifters, be sure to get a block that does not have the deep chamferred lifter bores, or bush the lifter bores. Unsure of 340 replacement blocks and this issue. I found out the hard way, as at max lift, my oil groove was exposed, causing major oil pressure bleed off. See attached:
 
regarding the cam and the vacuum created, there was a build with the same cam and some dyno numbers posted not long ago - from member RAMM i think.....search for it, maybe he has some vacuum numbers available?

Michael
 
Sounds like this car will be getting quite the treatment! Good luck to you on it. I do know that I looked up a comp lifter set with the offset link bars and they do have them, but that was a solid roller like I'm going to run (MRL Performance). And also +1 on what dodgedude said.
 
I've heard from 3 different people/porters that flow numbers on those heads should be taken with a grain of salt. I'd like to see some out in the open independent testing on them.

He, Bryce, was also involved in a SB Mopar build that chunked an acquaintance out of about 13K. Big POS. I wouldn't let that guy near my lawnmower!

Pick your part, pay your money.
 
moper said:
Looks good - in regard to the lifter bar issue - use the Comp lifters designed by OU812. I think they clear without clearancing. There is water VERY close to the surface features that hit "normal" lifter bars.
Click to expand...

Moper - Are the lifters at the first link below the ones that you were referring to? I'm not too keen on running mechanical roller lifters. I'm wondering if the magnum lifters depicted at the second link might be a viable option. Please let me know what you think when you get a second. Thanks...

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...ect_70_small_block_engine_build/photo_22.html

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...ect_70_small_block_engine_build/photo_21.html
 
dodgedude said:
If you run the comp 8920-16 lifters, be sure to get a block that does not have the deep chamferred lifter bores, or bush the lifter bores. Unsure of 340 replacement blocks and this issue. I found out the hard way, as at max lift, my oil groove was exposed, causing major oil pressure bleed off. See attached:
Click to expand...

Dodgedude - boy, that's bad juju. Thanks for the head's up. Guess that's why Hughes sells their 5321-series hydraulic roller lifters with a lowered oil band.
 
crackedback said:
I've heard from 3 different people/porters that flow numbers on those heads should be taken with a grain of salt. I'd like to see some out in the open independent testing on them.

He, Bryce, was also involved in a SB Mopar build that chunked an acquaintance out of about 13K. Big POS. I wouldn't let that guy near my lawnmower!

Pick your part, pay your money.
Click to expand...

Crackedback - Thanks for lending your perspective on the Dr. J's heads. I've seen a small amount of negative comments online about these heads, but I've also seen similar comments about every other aluminum head option. It's hard to know what to do. I'll take a closer look at some other options.
 
The only things I see here are;

You can get the roller lifters direct from Mike, AKA MRL, here at FABO.
This will take the guess work out of the picture completely.
Remember that the MP resto 340 block can not be messed with on that side of the block.
Long lost member Koryliss went through this when the resto 340 block was new and went through the wall trying to clearance it for the roller lifters. It turned that block into junk real quick.

MRL's lifters will have you avoid this.

The cam and cruise RPM are fairly far apart. The engine will chug, have little power and you'll wait a bit for power. This may not be to great on the Hwy.
Gas mileage is going to stink.
 
i heard on another site that keisler was going bankrupt and some guys were not getting their deposits back. a word to the wise?
 
rumblefish360 said:
You can get the roller lifters direct from Mike, AKA MRL, here at FABO.
This will take the guess work out of the picture completely.

MRL's lifters will have you avoid this.

The cam and cruise RPM are fairly far apart. The engine will chug, have little power and you'll wait a bit for power. This may not be to great on the Hwy.
Gas mileage is going to stink.
Click to expand...

Rob - Thanks for the info. Looks like the MRL lifters are also solid rollers. I'd rather not monkey around with valve lash if I can help it. Maybe I should give up on the resto block idea. About the cam, do you think I should run a cam in the 230-240 duration @ 0.050 range?
 
crackedback said:
I've heard from 3 different people/porters that flow numbers on those heads should be taken with a grain of salt. I'd like to see some out in the open independent testing on them.

He, Bryce, was also involved in a SB Mopar build that chunked an acquaintance out of about 13K. Big POS. I wouldn't let that guy near my lawnmower!

Pick your part, pay your money.
Click to expand...

Ok this is no **** here. I have tried to contact Bryce the Ghost at least 5 Different times. The last time was 2 weeks or so ago. He has NEVER called me back nor responded to my Contact info given on his website. I could not Imagine getting into a set of his heads and have a problem. Especially in a long distance relationship. I guess I live way too close to his shop for him to do business with me? I am within driving distance of his shop so I take that is the problem…...Screw him and his heads!
 
Mad Dart said:
Ok this is no **** here. I have tried to contact Bryce the Ghost at least 5 Different times. The last time was 2 weeks or so ago. He has NEVER called me back nor responded to my Contact info given on his website. I could not Imagine getting into a set of his heads and have a problem. Especially in a long distance relationship. I guess I live way too close to his shop for him to do business with me? I am within driving distance of his shop so I take that is the problem…...Screw him and his heads!
Click to expand...

Ok. Done deal. I plan to look elsewhere.
 
I would talk to IQ52 (Jim )
He and his Cody have done two sets of heads for me.

One set of Edelbrocks
One set of J's
They do amazing work !!!
Honest and fair pricing !!!!
Plus Jim is a really cool guy that will answer all your questions
Truthfully !!!

There is also MRL performance and OU812
Both have been very cool on the phone and also answered questions
Even though they are busy .
I am waiting now as we speak for a pair of
Pro comps from MRL .
Jim
 
I'm running the MRL Hyd roller lifters (heads & custom ground cam from MRL too), in a LA block, lifters fit and work great, no fitment issues or oiling problems , Mike's at great guy to work with and good pricing.
 
onetorun said:
I'm running the MRL Hyd roller lifters (heads & custom ground cam from MRL too), in a LA block, lifters fit and work great, no fitment issues or oiling problems, Mike's at great guy to work with and good pricing.
Click to expand...

Onetorun - Thanks for the info. I'll have to see if MRL's hydraulic roller lifters are compatible with 340 replacement blocks.
 
First, welcome to FABO. Second, congrats on the recent "retirement" from Military. I'm just up the road from you, and if the weather was warmer (springtime) I would take you for a ride in my Demon to give you an idea of what a 408 can do in an A-body. A couple of items to consider; have you thought about using a later LA-360 (1989-1992), they came with the factory roller lifters. These are a good option for your type of build (mostly street with lots of torque). Second item, how about a set of iron RHS heads from a reputable builder like MRL or IMM Engines? Both are members of this board. Are you looking for a local engine builder/machine shop? I can recommend Magnum Machine in Chesapeake, great guys to deal with. Good luck with the build.
 
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