Fix my W2s or go with RHS heads?

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rmchrgr

Skate And Destroy
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The #5 intake valve on my W2 headed 340 is ticking pretty loudly. I did a compression test a while ago and the #5 cylinder was the weakest by about 30 psi. Oil pressure is good, 60 lbs at start up, goes to about 40 psi when warm. Lash is set to .026" warm. I had it a little tighter before but backed it off after the tick got louder. I finally did a leak down test the other day after the tick got too loud to ignore and I could hear the air rushing through the intake runner and out the carb. Other than that test and a visual check of the valve gear, the head has to come off to see what the damage is.

Per the previous owner, these W2s are not ported. They have larger intake valves, like 2.05 or something but are as-cast. To me, this has always struck me as curious since most guys who go through the trouble of W2s with the unique valve gear and all are probably going to port them to realize their full potential. Though the engine goes to 7,000 rpm, it's only been a best of 12.0. You have to figure there is some power being left on the table. Most W2 combos I read about are usually at least a second faster in the 1/4 mile, all else being equal. Cam is a MP .557 BTW.

So since at some point the head likely needs to come off, I was thinking rather than spend the coin on fixing these heads, I might call up one of the head guys out there like IMM or Hughes and get the RHS heads I have on my shelf set up. My goal for the car is to get to the mid-11s and I believe the RHS heads can do that no problem.

I have a few intakes to choose from, an LD 340 and an old Holley strip Dominator. I can re-use my existing TTi 1 7/8 step headers since they will bolt up to the RHS heads. Going to the LD 340 might also help to pickup some low end torque if I decide to go that route. The combustion chamber design is also more efficient on the RHS heads as opposed to the ancient open chamber W2s, so perhaps a little gain in that area might help things out as well. I can probably also get away with re-using half my rocker arms, just have to get new, non-offset intakes. Only other thing I think I might need to get is new puhrods.

What do you all think? Should I fix the valve on the W2s and put 'em back on or get the RHS heads set up and see how they do? I'm inclined to do the latter but I'm looking for a some input before I take stuff apart. I've only been driving the car for a little while since finishing it this last spring so being down for repairs so soon is kind of a bummer. It may turn out to be a good thing though.

Thanks for any input.
 
Fix the W2s. It if was a question about which to BUY, I would say RHS. But you already have everything to make the W2s work.
 
If you take the 1500 bucks it cost to buy the RHS heads....and invest that in the W2s.....I think the you have a lot better head performance wise...

and since you have the intake...rockers...headers.....go with the w2 heads...
 
If you take the 1500 bucks it cost to buy the RHS heads....and invest that in the W2s.....I think the you have a lot better head performance wise...

and since you have the intake...rockers...headers.....go with the w2 heads...

W2s are on the car already. RHS heads are on the shelf so I save on the core charge for those. Basically paying for shipping, prep/valve job, valves, springs etc. I save about $600+ which can go to the intakes, pushrods, gaskets etc.

New W2 valves and a valve job will probably be getting pretty close to that, no? Valves will be a couple hundred, valve job will be a couple hundred. Not sure on pricing either way though.
 
Set them both up and do a back to back test!

this is actually why it doesn't really matter what you choose to do because unless you do this you'll never know which performs better. Same thing when guys stress over cams for 2 months. Unless youre willing to swap parts and test, you'll never actually know
 
this is actually why it doesn't really matter what you choose to do because unless you do this you'll never know which performs better. Same thing when guys stress over cams for 2 months. Unless youre willing to swap parts and test, you'll never actually know

Well, the current combo went a best of 11.97, usually went 12.0. Had a 4.30 gear in it, different ignition, fuel system and suspension. Over the last year, I took a lot of weight out of it, have Caltracs and a 4.10 gear in it now. Before the nosiy valve, I was thinking it would pick up over the old best time but I have yet to run it. There's no way to do a real scientific comparison anymore since so much has changed.

All in all though, the car should have been better than 12.0 or at least it seems like it should have. I think the engine is tired, probably need rings, valve springs etc. Short of rebuilding the whole thing, I thought I'd see if the RHS heads might help things out.

W2s really shine at higher rpms but this motor only goes to 7,000. Without porting to take advantage of the higher rpms, whats the point? Could I port them? Sure but then I'm spending more money rather than just fixing the old stuff or trying something new for a few hundred bucks more than I'd spend on the repair.
 
I have the RHS heads from IMM on my stroker , they do more than just a valve job to get them to work they also do some bowl work , which you will have to pay for and in my case I paid another 450 for additional porting as well , that got me 524/527 which should get you into the 11s , add that to the cost of buying everything to go with them including lifters , pushrods and rocker gear and your well beyond what it would cost to fix the W2s and get some porting done to them while they are in the machine shop , in fact I think if you put all the money your going to spend building the RHS heads and the new intake and I bet you could get enough port work done to the W2s to surpass what you will get from the RHS's .
 
On a side note I guess I'll be getting a look at exactly what the extra porting was because I have a couple of noisy valves that probably need new guides as well .
 
Would you like to come on board as a sponsor and donate the parts and a two day track rental? If so, I'd be glad to perform the test for you.

:D

No, I will agree something is wrong with your setup my demon with home ported j's and a small 244/520 lift cam with 3.91 gear ran 12.22 with a 1.66 60' full street trim.
 
On a side note I guess I'll be getting a look at exactly what the extra porting was because I have a couple of noisy valves that probably need new guides as well .

Really .. how many miles do you have on these heads? Was the $450 for the CnC porting or was that the old hand job?
 
W2s are on the car already. RHS heads are on the shelf so I save on the core charge for those. Basically paying for shipping, prep/valve job, valves, springs etc. I save about $600+ which can go to the intakes, pushrods, gaskets etc.

New W2 valves and a valve job will probably be getting pretty close to that, no? Valves will be a couple hundred, valve job will be a couple hundred. Not sure on pricing either way though.

Sorry...Did not see them on the shelf..........the door was in the way.....
 
Really .. how many miles do you have on these heads? Was the $450 for the CnC porting or was that the old hand job?
About 20,000 , I really don't know what they did for the 450 ,the heads were part of the total build which was basically a package with some upgrades and the extra porting was one of the upgrades .
 
Just priced out valves only, either MP or Ferrea 2.08, gonna be over $430/16 valves, either choice. Does anyone replace only one valve?

Like said above, probably needs guides and a valve job. So I'm looking at a couple hundred for each head in machine work. I'm getting close to a grand already just to fix the W2s. I can get the RHS heads done for around 900. I gotta ship 'em across the country which adds a bunch. Either way I need new gaskets. I have intake manifolds for both, valve covers and headers already. I even have a set of NOS 273 rocker arms I could use if I wanted.

Either way, it's gonna cost some bucks. Guess the main question is it worth it stay with unported W2s or make the switch and see where I end up? I don't think porting is really in the budget right now, just a little beyond what I can afford.
 
I guess it comes down to researching flow numbers for both then , the RHS are a great head once they have been worked over a little but if your just doing a valve job they may not match the W2s for base flow numbers .
 
I guess it comes down to researching flow numbers for both then , the RHS are a great head once they have been worked over a little but if your just doing a valve job they may not match the W2s for base flow numbers .

Here's a chart from Hughes webpage for 'Super Prepped' RHS heads with 2.02 intake valves. Probably similar to what IMM does.

Lift Stock Super Prepped CFM Change Stock Super Prepped Change
.100 66 74 +8
.200 116 146 +40 91 89 -2
.300 177 202 +25 138 139 +1
.350 203 225 +22 155 158 +3
.400 224 241 +17 167 173 +6
.450 239 258 +19 171 181 +10
.500 252 268 +16 174 187 +13
.550 262 271

Here's an older chart for unported W2s from SDSS. This chart is for a 2.02" intake valve so the larger valve that I have will probably yield slightly better results. Clearly the potential is there for some big numbers but it's going to take a lot of grinding ($$) to get 'em there.

LIFT--------AS-CAST---------PORTED
.100”------62.1/44.9------------82.8/55.2
.200”------124.9/101.8---------148.4/107.6
.300”------179.4/138.0---------205.3/160.4
.400”------220.8/151.1---------255.3/193.2
.450”------238.7/155.2---------273.3/203.6
.500”------252.2/155.2---------291.5/208.7
.550”------258.4/155.2---------303.9/213.9
.600”------260.5/155.2---------313.3/215.0
.650”------253.6/155.2---------324.3/215.7
.700”------253.6/155.2---------320.8/217.0


See the dilema? They're pretty close if you're racing flow benches. Besides, my cam only opens the valve .531" after lash so anything over that is irrelevant.
 
the best thing to do with the w2 heads is get rid of the 3/8 valve stem and go with a 11/32 stem ....the look for a valve that is 5.300 in length...
 
FWIW, here is some info on my old W-2's and my current RHS heads. It's not really a fair, direct comparison, but can offer some idea of what might be expected.

When I first put W-2's on my 3,000lb 360 Challenger, I gained 2-3 tenths over mildly ported OEM heads. I believe I got into the 10.70's in good air with these unported W-2's at that weight. 727, 5.13 gears, 14x32 slicks, 1 7/8" straight headers & footbraking. I always ran solid cams in the .555 " - .575" range, 2.02" intake valves and 750 Holley DP.

Eventually I got a 2,800 lb Challenger home made 2x3 chassis car with ladder bars. Nothing fancy. I don't recall how fast I went initially, but I ran a best of 10.22 in really good Florida winter air with ported W-2's. Broke a crank and when I went back to unported W-2's, I was going 10.40's - .50's. So I figure the Direct Connection porting templates were worth about 2+ tenths over unported heads.

An interesting discovery was that when I tried shifting at 67-6800 instead of 71-7200 rpm, the car didn't lose any ET!

My current car with a 360 gained about 1 1/2, maybe 2, tenths going from as-cast OEM heads to as-cast RHS heads - 11.30's to high 11-teens. (With a very slight compression gain.) This is with a .474" hydraulic cam (but with as much duration as the bigger cams), 4.86 gear, 9x30 radial slicks, footbraking a low gear 904, 750 DP, 1 5/8"-1 3/4" TTI step headers and weighing about 3,540 lbs! I shift it around 67-6800.

Doing the math, if my current car weighed 2,800 lbs (700+ lbs less), it should have the capability of going around 10.50 in the 1/4. Probably faster with a bigger cam, similar to what the Challenger had.

However, this doesn't mean that the RHS heads are as good as W-2's. I learned a lot over the years tuning a carb and my current car has a 904 compared to a 727 in my Challenger. That alone is worth about .15 in the 1/4, as Chrysler found out in testing in the mid-'70's. So I would make an "educated guess" that the as-cast W-2's may be about 1 - 2 tenths faster than the RHS heads as-cast. W-2's may have more of an advantage when both heads are ported. So, theoretically, my 2800lb Challenger should have been able to run 10.0's or maybe even squeeze out some high 9.90's, with a 904, better carb tune-up and any other tweaks I may have learned up to now.

My current 360 has about 10.5 compression while my Challenger 360's had around 11.5.

One variable I can't compare is the converter. I don't recall what the converter in my 2800lb Challenger flashed to, but it may have been doing a decent job considering my best 60' times were in the high 1.30's running 10.20's. My current converter flashes in the 50-5400 rpm range, depending on weather and tune-up resulting in a best of 1.47 in 60'@ 3540 lbs. running high 11-teens (There are Stock Eliminator cars that 60' even better at these respective ET's!)

As mentioned, these are not properly/fairly tested comparisons because of many variables over the years. But they are actual numbers that I experienced, mentioning as many variables as I could recall and I'm offering my "educated guesses/estimates". As they say, "your results may vary". Even if you don't achieve the actual numbers, one might get a rough idea of what can be expected from the different heads. Lots of numbers to "play" with.

I would also suggest fixing up the W-2's since you already have them. I believe they have more potential. But don't get carried away with the "bigger is better" train of thought. As EL5DEMON340 mentioned, your existing combo needs work/refining.
You don't need more RPM, bigger intake valves, much porting or whatever else, to run 11's. But mild bowl work, port match & clean up will help without spending a lot. With care, you can do it yourself. Keep the air velocity up and work on making torque with "matching/complimenting" parts throughout the car.
 
what pistons and compression are you running, my not be compatible with closed chamber RHS heads
 
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