Flared hard line to AN fittings?

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magnumdust

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So my efi kit came today and now i have to start ordering the components to my fuel system. I've decided to go with the push-loc style high pressure hose.

At the moment i have one issue, how do i connect my flared hardline to AN fittings?
 
You can purchase what is called a hard tube adapter from Jeg's or Summitt.
 
You know that when connecting AN type fittings to hard line you need to have a 37 degree flare, right? You can get by with a 45 to 37 in some instances but not on a high pressure system like EFI. Do it right or you will have problems beyond simple leaks. You can only make 37 degree flares with a 37 degree flaring tool, like this.

Like mentioned above, you need a tube sleeve and a nut on the hard line but again, it really needs to be a 37 degree flare to connect to the AN fitting. There's a zillion adapters out there for these types of applications, just have to figure out which one suits your needs.

What size line are you using? - 6, -8? Where does the hard line end? Where are you going to connect it to the push lock hose?

What about your return lines?

I used Russell fittings on my fuel system but there are several quality brands out there - Earl's, Aeroquip etc.
 
rmchrgr said:
You know that when connecting AN type fittings to hard line you need to have a 37 degree flare, right? You can get by with a 45 to 37 in some instances but not on a high pressure system like EFI. Do it right or you will have problems beyond simple leaks. You can only make 37 degree flares with a 37 degree flaring tool, like this.

Like mentioned above, you need a tube sleeve and a nut on the hard line but again, it really needs to be a 37 degree flare to connect to the AN fitting. There's a zillion adapters out there for these types of applications, just have to figure out which one suits your needs.

What size line are you using? - 6, -8? Where does the hard line end? Where are you going to connect it to the push lock hose?

What about your return lines?

I used Russell fittings on my fuel system but there are several quality brands out there - Earl's, Aeroquip etc.
Click to expand...

hmm interesting, looks like its a little more complicated than i thought. I had thought i could use the flares that were already on the hard lines. Its -6 hard line in the original location for a duster

Then i planned to use push lock everywhere else(including the -4 return line)
 
Is there a Alternative Hose near you? If so, might want to go check them out. Years ago I plumbed an entire vehicle with an fittings and high pressure lines I got from them for about a third of what Summit/Jegs etc wanted. They had everything I needed right down to the parts you will need to go from an to hard lines. The one in Phoenix turned me loose in there warehouse so I could just sort of self shop.......
 
inkjunkie said:
Is there a Alternative Hose near you? If so, might want to go check them out. Years ago I plumbed an entire vehicle with an fittings and high pressure lines I got from them for about a third of what Summit/Jegs etc wanted. They had everything I needed right down to the parts you will need to go from an to hard lines. The one in Phoenix turned me loose in there warehouse so I could just sort of self shop.......
Click to expand...

unfortunately no, The closest to me is bakersfield and thats a 5hr drive.
 
'Ssssssssssssssssssssss not clear to me what fittings are on the lines you have?

Are these male nutes, IE standard US inverted flare?

Metric/ bubble, etc?

FEMALE nuts which are probably SAE (that is 45*) flare?
 
67Dart273 said:
'Ssssssssssssssssssssss not clear to me what fittings are on the lines you have?

Are these male nutes, IE standard US inverted flare?

Metric/ bubble, etc?

FEMALE nuts which are probably SAE (that is 45*) flare?
Click to expand...

As of now(with the carb'd setup) i have no AN fittings. Just cheap hose and clamps and using two barb fittings i got from the hardware store on the fuel pump.

The hard lines have this style of flare at each end:
fuel+pump+assy_big16710MAL601+01_61f71301330284.jpg
 
Those flared tubes obviously are for rubber hose and clamps, a definite no-no with injection. Rubber is OK in itself for fuel as long as the hose is rated for it but you need to have some sort of locking connection, clip, crimp, AN etc. Just so we're clear, an EFI system operates under fairly high pressure, like 60 psi normally. You don't want to skimp on your connections here.

Now that we have the PSA out of the way, you're going to need to figure out some way to connect to the hard lines. -6 is essentially 3/8 so if you have 3/8 lines as opposed to the factory 5/16, (which it sounds like) then you're good, you just need to get some -6 tube sleeves and nuts and figure out a way to make a 37 degree flare on the end of the line. Remeber to put the fittings on before you flare!

I've done this deal (not EFI but extensive use of AN fittings) with my own Duster. The factory fuel line routing is tight along the frame rail in the engine bay but if you can make a nice clean cut and get the flaring tool in there to make your flare you'll be good. Just run the push lock hose up to the throttle body so it's out of the way of your exhaust and accessories.

I ended up having to get the whole fuel line out. You can't really get a flared line with the tube nut and sleeve on it through the factory hole in the cross member where the OE fuel line passes through. I was planning to re-do mine anyway but you may not have been looking to do that. That's why I say that if you can make a clean cut and flare it while it's still in the car you will save a lot of work.

The caveat to that is that it's essential to make a very clean and straight cut for 37 degree flares since they are a single flare and must conform to the cone on the male AN fitting. It's also kind of a pain to get the flaring tool in there without hitting anything. There are different ones than the Ridgid (which I have) so perhaps another one might work better.

Also, do you have a fuel injection type fuel pump? How are you planning on running that?
 
bad440 said:
tube nuts with a sleeve to a male a/n...
Click to expand...

Mad Dart said:
Nailed it!
Click to expand...

Yup. If you have tubing with just the "bump" for hose and clamps, you need to drum up a 37* flare kit. Depending on what type and the thickness of the tube you need to double or single flare.

Make sure you understand the difference between AN and SAE flare.

Some sizes of SAE flare (45) will screw into and actually "get away" with intermixing AN (37*)

Generally, most all old school auto and hardware flare (brass) is SAE, or 45*, including inverted flare (brake lines.) So far as I know all inverted flare is 45*

Metric, various proprietary junk, and bubble flares have complicated this. I see that Russel, Summit, Jegs, etc, and Earl's (didn't spend a lot of time) do have a certain amount of adapters to proprietary, IE Ford girdle spring fittings, etc.
 
Yes your going to need a Flare Kit if you don't already have one. They are not all the same as mentioned above. I picked up my last one 37* from Speedwaymotors.com . 37* is the one you will need for the tubing to mate to an fittings.
 
An is a rip-off. Spend all your $ on a pretty anodixed fitting/ over-priced, for it;s worth. Push/lock? no more. More $.
 
I agree that AN fittings are overly pricey. I use those at work (aerospace) but not on my cars. Mostly used for show cars or racers where price is no object. Push-lock is good, but seems to have fallen out of favor in new cars. You can get parts at auto parts, but fairly expensive ($20 for 20" tube).

Most new cars use nylon hose. You can get those at auto parts and are also pricey. I understand you just force the stiff nylon hose on, with a little water lubricant. No clamp. I don't think you heat shrink it, though the finished connection looks like that. Easier if you soak the end in hot water first.

Whether you can use rubber hose and hose clamps is a question. Holley's TBI kits had you use just hose clamps, but those run 22 psi max. I wouldn't use a regular screw clamp. Special "fuel injection" hose clamps are better with a separate screw/nut and full flat contact on the hose. There are also various crimp collars. I read of the new nylon fuel hoses cracking at the fittings, so fuel leaks are not uncommon. Fortunately, even a tiny gas leak makes a tremendous smell so is quickly noticed.
 
rmchrgr said:
Those flared tubes obviously are for rubber hose and clamps, a definite no-no with injection. Rubber is OK in itself for fuel as long as the hose is rated for it but you need to have some sort of locking connection, clip, crimp, AN etc. Just so we're clear, an EFI system operates under fairly high pressure, like 60 psi normally. You don't want to skimp on your connections here.

Now that we have the PSA out of the way, you're going to need to figure out some way to connect to the hard lines. -6 is essentially 3/8 so if you have 3/8 lines as opposed to the factory 5/16, (which it sounds like) then you're good, you just need to get some -6 tube sleeves and nuts and figure out a way to make a 37 degree flare on the end of the line. Remeber to put the fittings on before you flare!

I've done this deal (not EFI but extensive use of AN fittings) with my own Duster. The factory fuel line routing is tight along the frame rail in the engine bay but if you can make a nice clean cut and get the flaring tool in there to make your flare you'll be good. Just run the push lock hose up to the throttle body so it's out of the way of your exhaust and accessories.

I ended up having to get the whole fuel line out. You can't really get a flared line with the tube nut and sleeve on it through the factory hole in the cross member where the OE fuel line passes through. I was planning to re-do mine anyway but you may not have been looking to do that. That's why I say that if you can make a clean cut and flare it while it's still in the car you will save a lot of work.

The caveat to that is that it's essential to make a very clean and straight cut for 37 degree flares since they are a single flare and must conform to the cone on the male AN fitting. It's also kind of a pain to get the flaring tool in there without hitting anything. There are different ones than the Ridgid (which I have) so perhaps another one might work better.

Also, do you have a fuel injection type fuel pump? How are you planning on running that?
Click to expand...

Oh ok good to know. I'll have to look tomorrow to see how feasible it will be to get a tube cutter at both ends of the hardline. And yes i have alum. 3/8 line. When i did the magnum swap, i decided to upgrade the hard line so it would match my 3/8 fuel sender.

I don't have a fuel pump yet. I'm looking at running an airtex E8248 fuel pump. Mounted to the frame close to the fuel tank(which btw, how do i do that?).

Oh and an fyi, this system is designed to run @ 45psi. But i obviously want to do this right because i'll eventually run supercharger/turbo on it.(couple years down the road)
 
Mad Dart said:
Best prices I have found on All Fittings, free shipping too. I get everything n 1-2 days max. If you don't see it call him and he can get it.

I don't like the blue and red an fittings, they look cheap and cookie cutter to me. I use all black.

http://stores.ebay.com/performancedynamicsspeedshop
Click to expand...

I agree on the colors part. I don't necessarily have an issue with red and blue...just not mix/match. I feel inclined to choose one color or another.
 
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