Foose 17x8 4.5 bs on 67 Dart ?

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magnummopar

magnummopar

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I am looking for black wheels for our 67 GT Vert project we are building. It has bbp brakes on front and 8 3/4 A rear with disks. I have measured and they look like they should fit but wondering if anybody has run these wheels or similar on a 67-69 Dart with same set up. No spring relocate or rolling lips and not a lot of time to screw with spacers. looking at 215/45 on front and 255/40 or 50 if possible. I would just order them and try it but in a hurry. By measurements, it will be within less than 1/2" on rear. Thanks in advance. I did read 30 pages of wheel posts but no clear answers .
 
215/45/17's are really short tires, only 24.6". But yes, they'll fit in the front. But with any tire wider than that and you'd need more backspace. Pretty narrow tire too, kind of a waste of an 8" wide rim. You'd be much better off with 5" to 5.6" of backspace.

A '67 Dart with the stock spring locations is going to be tough for a 255 in the back even with perfect backspacing. It can be done on some cars but not others, it's close enough that your margin of success is less than the factory body tolerances. You need a good 1/2" to the quarter to keep from rubbing unless you've really got the back end raised up in the air. You can get away with a little less to the springs because of the shorter sidewalls. With BBP axles and disks you should really have more like 5" or even a smidge more for backspace in the rear to max out tire width. With a 17x8 and 4.5" of backspacing with BBP and disks I think you'd probably only safely get 235's back there. With a 5" backspace you should probably be able to get 245's in there.
 
Thanks, I was thinking that would be better but couldnt call them to see what bs was available. Also couldnt find anybody selling 17x7 but site says they make them. Sorted through tons of pages of theory and modified stuff but not much as far as bolt on. We are on a deadline and wont have time to modify suspension until after show so just need easy bolt on for now. I will sell them on another car when we get to second stage of build.
 
Just got off phone with them and they only have 17x7 4" bs and 17x8 4 1/2" bs which they guarantee will fit, 7's in front and 8's in back. Foose called back with recommended tire sizes, 225/50/17 in front and a 245/45/17 out back. 225/50 25.9" x 8.9" and 245/45 25.7" x 9.7". Rear sounds wide to me.... thoughts?
 
Everything is too wide. A 17x7 with 4" of backspace and a 17x8 with 4.5" of backspace are both 0 offset rims. The wheel is in exactly the same place, just one's narrower. Meaning, if you run the same size tire the wheel clearance will be almost identical, the only difference will be whether the tire is slightly stretched or compressed on the rim. BBP A-bodies had a +6 offset from the factory, and in the back the best fit is usually a +12 for a BBP 8 3/4 (remember no BBP A-body 8 3/4's, the BBP axles add a 1/4" or so).

In the front a 225/50/17 on a 17x7 with 4" of backspace will stick out .1" past the 275/35/18's I run on my Duster. That's not much and they will probably fit as long as your car doesn't sit low, but it will be tight. I have a little room to the outside on my car, but it's not much at all.

In the back I just don't see it. All of the Dart's that I know about that are running 245's with stock spring locations and BBP axles are running 5" of backspace on 8" rims. And your rear disks add another 1/4" to 3/16" compared to the stock drums, so if anything you need more backspace than they have.
 
That was what I was concerned about. They say they will fit but who knows...Probably better find a different wheel mfg which sucks because nobody makes a black wheel that doesnt look like a tuner wheel.
 
I'm guessing you're looking at a set of Foose Legends? If 5 spoke is what you want and short notice is your problem, take a look at these. 17x8, 5.25" backspace. Would actually let you run 245/45/17's all the way around if you wanted to, although you could still run a narrower front tire if you wanted. The center bore will clear the front hubs, which is something not all wheels will do (most mustang rims won't). You might need a small spacer in the back, but we're talking 5mm so you shouldn't need to change your wheel studs. I know they aren't black, but honestly, if you just want them for a show you could have them plasti-dipped black.

vsw-141h5761gm6_ml.jpg

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vsw-141h7865gm19/overview/

They're the same style of wheels that I run on my Challenger. Mine are 17x9's, but they look the same from the outside.
IMG_3018.jpg
 
thanks, I am not a big TT fan, but the black legends were an acceptable compromise. Having been alive since torque thrusters were invented in early 60's, I am kind of burned out on them. Unfortunately, I am not a big fan of chrome or polished aluminum and it appears only guys that drive trucks or tuners like black wheels. Have some really nice drilled and slotted front and rear disks w powder coated calipers on this car I would like to show off. #blackwheelsmatter :D
 
Then you should run these. :D

mtt-90000001871_ml.jpg

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mtt-2989422/overview/

They're 18x9's with a 6.25" backspace. You could run them with 245/40/18's. In the front you wouldn't need anything, they should be fine (I run 275's with almost exactly the same offset). In the back you'll have to run a 1" spacer/adaptor, like this- 1" 5x114.3 Hubcentric Wheel Spacers Mustang GT500 Shelby Cobra SVT GT | 1.0 inch

It will be tight in the back, most of those cars have ~11" from the springs to the quarters, and a 9" wide rim is actually 10" wide outside to outside (the 9" measurement is where the tire mounts on the inside lip). So before you did that I would measure that you actually have about 11" from the inside of the quarter lip to the springs. But with the 6.25" backspace, 1" spacer, and rear disk that should end up where in needs to be. Body tolerances on these cars vary a bit, so it pays to measure a couple times before you buy anything when you start getting down to the minimum clearances.
 
I spoke with a rim manufacturer today, American Legend, that has what I am looking for and is happy to have another vendor in my area. They make several wheels in 5x4 as well as 5 x4.5 so we are now dealers for them and will be stocking wheels soon. They will suffice to get us to the show looking good and hopefully we can help some other mopar friends get nice wheels for a good price. Thanks for the help, Evan
 
72bluNblu said:
215/45/17's are really short tires, only 24.6". But yes, they'll fit in the front. But with any tire wider than that and you'd need more backspace. Pretty narrow tire too, kind of a waste of an 8" wide rim. You'd be much better off with 5" to 5.6" of backspace.

A '67 Dart with the stock spring locations is going to be tough for a 255 in the back even with perfect backspacing. It can be done on some cars but not others, it's close enough that your margin of success is less than the factory body tolerances. You need a good 1/2" to the quarter to keep from rubbing unless you've really got the back end raised up in the air. You can get away with a little less to the springs because of the shorter sidewalls. With BBP axles and disks you should really have more like 5" or even a smidge more for backspace in the rear to max out tire width. With a 17x8 and 4.5" of backspacing with BBP and disks I think you'd probably only safely get 235's back there. With a 5" backspace you should probably be able to get 245's in there.
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72bluNblu said:
Then you should run these. :D

mtt-90000001871_ml.jpg

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mtt-2989422/overview/

They're 18x9's with a 6.25" backspace. You could run them with 245/40/18's. In the front you wouldn't need anything, they should be fine (I run 275's with almost exactly the same offset). In the back you'll have to run a 1" spacer/adaptor, like this- 1" 5x114.3 Hubcentric Wheel Spacers Mustang GT500 Shelby Cobra SVT GT | 1.0 inch

It will be tight in the back, most of those cars have ~11" from the springs to the quarters, and a 9" wide rim is actually 10" wide outside to outside (the 9" measurement is where the tire mounts on the inside lip). So before you did that I would measure that you actually have about 11" from the inside of the quarter lip to the springs. But with the 6.25" backspace, 1" spacer, and rear disk that should end up where in needs to be. Body tolerances on these cars vary a bit, so it pays to measure a couple times before you buy anything when you start getting down to the minimum clearances.
Click to expand...

You pretty much described my car and my problems to a T. I'm not sure if you did it by memory or lucky coincidence. Lol. But yes, anything wider than a 245/45/17 or 245/40/18 will be difficult to fit under a '67 Dart's rear unless everything is perfect. I used the M/T SC-5 wheels for my car. I have Dr Diff's Stage 4 brake kit with a Hotchkis front suspension and Dr. Diff's 11.75" brake kit on an A-body 8 3/4 in the rear. I have stock perches with Hotchkis leaf springs (~1" drop). I went with an 18 x 9 all the way around. I used the +32mm offset for the front (may or may not use a 5mm spacer) and a 22mm offset for the rear (needed the 5mm spacer to set the wheels as best as I can). Both front and rear have a 255/40/18 tire on it which is about 0.4" wider and 0.3" taller than a 245/45/17 or 245/40/18. Man, do you lose a lot of real estate with that small gain. Add in factory tolerances and you've got rubbage. The fronts were perfectly fine. The rears... not so much. My biggest problem was due to the factory tolerances on the rear end. The perches were welded on in such a way that the rear end favored one side over the other by about 0.25-0.5". Without a spacer, the tire was rubbing the leaf spring on one side. With the spacer, it was barely rubbing the quarter. That was the best I could get them and I measure my car up, made cardboard templates, and used mock up wheels for about 3 months before I ordered my wheels and they barely didn't fit. That being said, we're going to trim and roll the fender lips and possibly add in a MP offset shackle kit. That way, in the future, I can install 275/35/18's all the way around.

20150409_090313.jpg


20160701_103958.jpg
 
MuuMuu, nice GT! Those look really good. I didn't want to go through a bunch of wheel fun right now so I got a set of these to get the car to the cruise/show. I will squeeze what ever I can get under it for now and if I go wider later, these will go on one of our other cars to sell. Right now I don't have time for spacers. Less than 2 weeks and 5.9 is still in Durango in front of shop. Its a 67 GT vert and currently on jack stands waiting for brakes to get here tomorrow along with new rear axles for 8 3/4.

STREETER_BLACK.jpg
 
magnummopar said:
MuuMuu, nice GT! Those look really good. I didn't want to go through a bunch of wheel fun right now so I got a set of these to get the car to the cruise/show. I will squeeze what ever I can get under it for now and if I go wider later, these will go on one of our other cars to sell. Right now I don't have time for spacers. Less than 2 weeks and 5.9 is still in Durango in front of shop. Its a 67 GT vert and currently on jack stands waiting for brakes to get here tomorrow along with new rear axles for 8 3/4.

View attachment 1714950536
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I saw 409 chevy convertible in a buddies shop. it had black foose wheels on it, and it sucked. he`s a chevy man and didn`t like them either !
 
famous bob said:
I saw 409 chevy convertible in a buddies shop. it had black foose wheels on it, and it sucked. he`s a chevy man and didn`t like them either !
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Sucked as in the wheels were junk or you dont like black wheels? Guess it doesnt matter anyway because I didnt get them, I got the American Legend wheels instead.
 
magnummopar said:
MuuMuu, nice GT! Those look really good. I didn't want to go through a bunch of wheel fun right now so I got a set of these to get the car to the cruise/show. I will squeeze what ever I can get under it for now and if I go wider later, these will go on one of our other cars to sell. Right now I don't have time for spacers. Less than 2 weeks and 5.9 is still in Durango in front of shop. Its a 67 GT vert and currently on jack stands waiting for brakes to get here tomorrow along with new rear axles for 8 3/4.

View attachment 1714950536
Click to expand...

I'm pretty familiar with those wheels. Like 72Blu said, they're about a 0 mm offset. You shouldn't have problem fitting a 215/50/17 up front and maybe a 245/45/17 in the back (if you're lucky). For a cheap price, they're a pretty decent looking wheel.
 
Yep, they are pretty nice wheels, specially for the price. When I get ready to move the vert from this level up to sub frame, mini tub, full suspension, it will get more serious **** but for now these will work great. They even make them in 5x4 so we can now help all our SBP cars look cooler. I got my rear axles today along with the front and rear disk kits. drilled and slotted rotors are what I am trying to show off anyway, just needed a very "open" wheel thats not too flashy. We are selling our brake kits now and need some photos along with install article for web site. There is a huge cruise in our town in two weeks with car show and parade etc. Hundreds of really cool cars, lots of $100K rides. We will be proudly sporting our newest fashion line, the primered patina look...heard its all the rage.

brakes.jpg
 
MuuMuu101 said:
I'm pretty familiar with those wheels. Like 72Blu said, they're about a 0 mm offset. You shouldn't have problem fitting a 215/50/17 up front and maybe a 245/45/17 in the back (if you're lucky). For a cheap price, they're a pretty decent looking wheel.
Click to expand...

Ehhh. In the front I agree. But in the back with BBP axles and disks I think you'd need at least a +12mm offset for 245's. I think 235 is as wide as you'll want to go with a 0 offset.

magnummopar said:
Yep, they are pretty nice wheels, specially for the price. When I get ready to move the vert from this level up to sub frame, mini tub, full suspension, it will get more serious **** but for now these will work great. They even make them in 5x4 so we can now help all our SBP cars look cooler. I got my rear axles today along with the front and rear disk kits. drilled and slotted rotors are what I am trying to show off anyway, just needed a very "open" wheel thats not too flashy. We are selling our brake kits now and need some photos along with install article for web site. There is a huge cruise in our town in two weeks with car show and parade etc. Hundreds of really cool cars, lots of $100K rides. We will be proudly sporting our newest fashion line, the primered patina look...heard its all the rage.
Click to expand...

Those are some nice looking brakes! :D
 
they are great for anything short of serious racing. Should be great for auto cross, drag and street. Its a great deal at under a grand complete with master. We have done a few sets of 5x4 front and another bbp 69 but these are the first performance kit install since we became dealers. The axles are Dr Diff, actually cheaper from him than being a dealer for yukon for 15 years....great service too, showed up a day early!
 
Hey there guys- thanks for all the info on this thread. I have a 67 Dart as well and aside my 15x7 (205 60/15 tires on the front/235 60/15 tires on the back)cop wheels- I'm trying to figure out my wheel/tire combo as well.
Say- this is for 72bluNblu. We've talked before and I have all my notes from our conversations regarding 17 & 18" wheels.
I have another question regarding wheel/tire combos and lowering ones car. If I wanted to lower my 67 Dart(both front and rear)- not so much slam it or put airbags on it but just get it as low as one can by adjusting the torsion bars and springs in the rear- what size wheels would be the smartest to use? A 15x7, 15x8 & what sort of backspacing?
I know lot of folks hate them but I'm a big fan of the American Racing Ansen Sprint wheels. I was thinking of custom powdercoating, get the car low and it'd look pretty cool. Any advice would be appreciated.
 
The more you lower the car, the further away from the fenders and quarters the tires have to be because the wheels have to be inside of all the bodywork. If you car sits up high, you can get away with wider tires/less backspace because the tires can only hit the body when the suspension is compressed.

All of the numbers that I typically give are for lowered cars, because I'm using my own lowered cars as reference. On a '67 Dart with 15" rims and 15x7's and 15x8's though there isn't much you can do. Your backspace is limited by the 15" wheel diameter in the front, not to mention the backspacing that 15" rims are usually offered in. The Ansen sprints are only offered in 15x7 with a 4" backspace and 15x8 with a 4.5" backspace. Both of those are 0 offset rims, when really you'd like to have +6 or even +12. With those specs the biggest tire you'd be able to run up front is a 215/60/15, in the back probably a 235/60/15.
 
Ok- makes sense. I currently have 15x7 cop wheels with 205/60/15 tires on the front and 235/60/15 tires in the rear so those tire/wheel combos work really nice. Now-instead of getting both 15x7 & 15x8 Ansen wheels- I could just make it easy and get all 15x7 sized rims and make it a bit easier.
Say- they do make the American Racing Ansen Sprint in a 17x8 size w/4.5" backspacing. Would that wheel work on my 67 Dart and if I still wanted to go low? If so- what tire would be advised for both front/back? Only reason I ask this is I like your tire chioce on your blue Challenger. They are 17" wheels and just the right amount of rubber. Not too little, not too much. What size are they and would they work on my Dart? I hate to bite off your style but they look really good :)
 
Cop wheels, at least the OE ones, are 15x7 and have a 4.25" backspace, or a +6 offset. All of the Ansen's are 0 offset, so, you're moving the wheels out by a 1/4". That's true with either the 7" rim or the 8" rim, they both have 0 offset, the difference in backspace is do to the width of the rim, the centerline is in the same place. So take a look at how much clearance you have now and make sure that you can give up a 1/4" of clearance to the fenders and quarters.

Given the sizes of tires that you can run, there's no reason you need to use the 8" rim, a 7" rim is wide enough to fit a 235, so, you could run 7's all the way around to make things simple.

The 17x8's would work, but you still won't be able to run anything wider than a 215 in the front. With a 17" rim that would probably mean a 215/50/17. The problem with that is that the widest rim a 215/50/17 is spec'd for is 7.5". That's not a huge difference, and you could probably find someone that would mount that tire on an 8" rim, but it will look a little stretched.
 
So Fed Ex delivered my wheels yesterday. Dont have the brakes on yet but will post how they fit and just what I can squeeze under it as soon as I am done. I got an extra 17x7 5x4 to see how well it fits our 64 Dart project. We are now dealers for these wheels if anybody needs wheels cheap. I will keep you guys updated as to how they work....

blackwheels.jpg


blackwheels2.jpg


5x4polish.jpg
 
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