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lilhows340

lilhows340

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Hey
thought I would throw this on a thread rather than PM to get possibly other opinions. I polished up my bell housing and timing chain cover to see how they would come out with out removing too much metal. If I leave them should I put a clear coat maybe engine clear or is there a powder coat clear.
Thanks Jeff
 
I would just get them powder coated silver if thats the color your looking for.
 
there is a powder coat clear, but if you like the look you have, find a rattle can of nonyellowing clear paint and give em a coat. Wipe them down good with wax and grease remover first.
 
Nice polishing job lilhows! Bet that was a lot of work.

Yes, clear powder coating does exist. (In fact, the responder preceding me, valued customer Kocuda :-D, has it on his MP valve covers and Victor intake as a sealer since one of the powders I used on his parts is not UV stable on its own.) I've tried quite a few clear powders over the years, and truthfully not a single one of them blows my skirt up. Sometimes it can expand on the underlying shine and other times it can dull it ... it's very unpredictable and somewhat difficult to work with.

I also do not recommend "just" clear coating used automotive metals, especially intake manifolds. Brand new metal is one thing, but once it's been subjected to gasoline, oil, Gunk engine degreaser, car wash chemicals, brake fluid, and everything else your motor comes into contact with, getting it spotlessly clean again is almost impossible. Even with a thorough blasting and adequate outgassing, the base tone is usually very uneven and splotchy. Who wants to preserve that look for years??? Now your timing cover and bell housing look really great but they don't appear to be brand new; please correct me if I'm wrong.

The only other concern I'd have about clearing your bare metal "as is" involves what kind of metal compound(s) or polish you used while you were doing the buffing work. Regardless of the type or brand, if it's not absolutely totally removed ahead of time it can turn gray or even black when it's heated up to cure the clear powder. And with the clear on top of it, it's going to be sealed that way for years until it's blasted bare and you have to start all over from scratch. That unfortunately also includes the polishing work which is going to be destroyed when it's media blasted to remove the clear coat and the polish / compound underneath it.

Keeping in mind I've never claimed to be a painter and never will, the only commercial spray clears I personally have ever used turned yellow over time, and despite what the label claimed they weren't even glossy like I expected -- they produced a kind of streaky matte finish that looked like well, it looked like ***. There's no delicate or ladylike way to say it. :-D

In light of the fact you've already put a considerable amount of time and effort into your polishing, see what non-yellowing clear Ken up there used because if he's recommending it then it's probably worth a recommendation.

Of course, I'd be delighted to coat your timing cover and bell housing for you in any color you'd like (assuming the question, I can get powders that look like bare, anodized or polished metals too) .... but again, part of my prep work is going to be blasting it all down first so there goes all your hard work!

If you opt for the spray commercial clear coat and don't like the results, it can always be blasted and powder coated later; I'd just need to know some more about what you used on it when you did your polishing work so I can plan my prep accordingly.

Thanks for addressing your question to me but I think if others have used a good spray clear I hope they chime in. If it was me, I'd start with clearing the bellhousing and see how that looks; your timing cover is a lot more visible.
 
i ve been painting a long time and i don t know how you would get anything to stick to that polished aluminum. it would have to be scuffed up and etched to hold the clear. if you do that....it ll take away some of the luster. i m gonna be in your same boat pretty soon as i will need to coat my tranny. i plan on using por-15 silver. tough stuff. i ll just have to make sure it ll stick to aluminum. i coated my upper and lower control arms with it. i ll post a pic.
your parts sure look good. i wish i had a definate answer for you to preserve it. you might wanna try some type of spray lubricant to keep it oily and prevent corrosion. you d just have to put it on every once in a while. good luck
 
this is actually a mix of POR-15 black and silver on the upper As. the bright tips of the lower arms are straight silver. no reducers, or anything. straight out of the can. dries rock hard overnight. i ve been using this stuff for years, and have never had a problem with it...other than getting it off your hands or getting it off of a part. i tried to blast a few parts i bought that were coated in this stuff and it didn t wanna come off. it came off in a few spots i hit for a very long time, but i couldn t get it all off. another plus is that, once it is cured...it is solvent proof. hope this helps you.
 

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Geez, just tried to give you a link for good old Zoop Seal aluminum sealer ... but they're apparently out of business too.
 
Let me understand something here a second.

On a brand spankin new, OOTB never mounted aluminum part, like an intake, clear powder coating is OK and will bake right to a good finish, nice and clear without weird spots and bloch's?
 
rumblefish360 said:
Let me understand something here a second.

On a brand spankin new, OOTB never mounted aluminum part, like an intake, clear powder coating is OK and will bake right to a good finish, nice and clear without weird spots and bloch's?
Click to expand...
x2.....????????
 
Yes Rob. CNC machine oils can be a problem if I don't know about them in advance.

This was taken with my old 2.3 mp camera -- not much justice or detail for sure -- but it's a brand new cleared Performer RPM. Even the red, white and blue Made In USA logo survived!

View attachment Alum intake in full gloss clear.jpg

This is the only photo I have of a new cleared intake. Everyone else has chosen a powder color (usually Alien Silver just like yours).
 
Efriedrich, for powder coating work to turn out right and look fabulous, parts have to be initially washed, media blasted, outgassed for a few hours (to bring old embedded oil, gasoline, polish, etc. to the surface), washed and sometimes media blasted again, and then phosphate treated basically to inhibit rust / corrosion under the powder.

The only parts washer I use is ME and I do everything by hand. I do a lot of work on aluminum and the last thing it needs to do is to soak in chemicals.
 
.
I have an answer worth considering.

Type lll Hard Anodizing, (clear, no dye color).

It is so hard a piece of aluminum coated in Type lll will scratch deeply into a beer bottle.

NOTE:

The average anodize shop will vapor blast your polished surface and throw the clear on.

Then when you show up to pick up your parts a fist fight will break out.

* There is "Only One" Company I know that has broken the code as to how to preserve a high polished finish through the anodize process. I met with them at the last "WESTEC SHOW" here in Los Angeles.

Sulfuric or Type ll is just decorative, for outstanding durability the choice is Type lll Hard Anodize.

Most often seen in Black, minus the color dye it is Clear.

I examined the sample parts they brought to the show and spoke to the owner for quite a while.

The sample parts were "Very Impressive" and "Very Well Done" , and of course they were automotive and motorcycle parts.

Very few aircraft parts require a high polish and clear coating.

They started tackling the problem of preserving a high polished finish through the process when customer after customer called with stories of hours of hard work being ruined when some jackass just blasted and processed their parts instead of picking up the phone and explaining that the polished finish would have to be blasted.

And cuda chick, consider having a plating shop do their magic when it comes to parts cleaning.

They have all the tricks to remove "and boil out" the contaminates from the pores of metals.

A part prepped for plating is "completely" squeaky clean and dry before it goes into the plating tank.

If it is not, the batch of plating solution will be ruined by the contamination, that can cost a few hundred bucks plus the disposal of the contaminated solution.

Amongst the methods platers use is a Hot Caustic Soda bath which opens the pores and and cleans out any oils, release agents, water soluble coolant, etc.

Plus they can do a "Reverse" polarity strip that................


yeah, I know............. I talk to much.

.
 
Wow Jim, nice write up! There's no such thing as talking too much if you're passing on useful information.

I've never heard of hard anodize and will definitely look into it -- the better informed my customers can be about their options outside my shop, the better all around. I know, it's an unusual business practice ... but I do much better with the honest approach than concentrating on the almighty dollar and an early retirement.

I can see the advantages to using a plating company for parts cleaning so I can focus on the actual powder work. My out-in-the-boonies location and not having a plating company conveniently nearby are definite drawbacks though. Greenfield's a hole in the wall.

Though some of my regulars don't mind the extra charge I impose if parts show up totally filthy (I'd rather spend my days spraying powder than scraping), most of my guys wash the parts and sometimes even blast them before they ship them here -- saves them money on their bill -- so an outside service isn't really going to help much. Media blasting is an integral part of powder coating too so the effort, time and expense of having an ultra-spotless part to put in my blast cabinet isn't going to make much difference when I start throwing 90 psi of Black Beauty at it.

Now you send me something with CNC machine oil all over it, I just might take ya up on that plating company hookup Jim. That stuff's kicked my butt more than once. :-D

Next time we talk on the phone you gotta tell me about that reverse polarity strip. :glasses7:
 
As per a request, this Edelbrock Victor intake and MP valve covers is taken from LeAnna's web site in the area of show cased work she has done.
:wav:

I post this because I was asked about my RPM in the same color, Alien Silver, of for which I can not seem to find a picture of. GASP! Did I not take a snap shot??????? :angry2:

This particular shot shows some of the sparkle in the paint, er coating. It's mild enuff to miss if your looking quick, nice enuff to get complmented on when someone actually looks at the car/wrk you have done. The color POPS! in the sun light really nicely.
 

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Rob, I've got pictures of your MP air cleaner lid and PermaCool oil filter relocation kit but don't have any of the Air Gap on my photobucket Work Samples or my website! WTH??? I know I took some -- your Eddy logo was such a nice casting it would've been a shame not to polish up and accent a bit -- so they must be on my old computer. (There's a bunch of stuff I need to get off of it so this is just one more reason to plug that bad boy in lol) I'll copy you when I dig them up. :-D
 
.
dla4567 Wow nice job on the polishing,how about chrome!?
Click to expand...
.
Chrome on aluminum is not done by every chrome plating shop.

It's a specialty, and cost a bit more.

For instance, "All" of my needs in the way of "Industrial Hard Chrome", (QQC-320) are handled by......

Service Plating Company in Los Angeles, in business for well more than 50 years.

They don't do aluminum, they send those with the need to a shop with 35 years plus in the trade that is set up for aluminum.


I am thinking......

You know industrial hard chrome is,(in most cases), applied directly to the parent material.
(sometimes a nickel "base" is called out)

Proper Show Chrome, (Triple Chrome), is not.

Jumping ahead to a part that has been stripped, polished, etc.

It's cleaned & rinsed perfectly then the part is Copper Plated, buffed shiny, cleaned, and then it's Nickel Plated, buffed shiny etc, and then it's Chrome Plated, and buffed shiny.


My thinking is on aluminum there may be two ways to go......

1) Send the part to a shop that does Industrial Hard Chrome on aluminum.

Tell them "no abrasive blast", "preserve bright finish" , "clean and prep", and call out "Flash Chrome" .0002 to .0004 thick "allover".

Chrome will take on the appearance of the surface finish it is applied to, (the thicker chrome is applied, the above fact becomes less so)

or

2) Send the part to an "Ornamental Chrome" house,(show chrome).

Tell them to Copper Plate for total coverage.

Copper will stick to "Anything",... Yes,... I said "Anything"......

Ever seen so called "Bronzed Baby Shoes?", some are Bronze Plated, but truth be told a great many are Copper Plated.

Ever seen a Bronzed Hamburger?, I have, and plenty more.

So,... Copper sticks to anything,.... and "Anything" sticks to Copper,(yes you can have a Chromed Hamburger).

So,.. once your part is buffed and Copper Plated you can throw on Chrome, Nickel, Rodium, etc.


Price wise, unless you trade cases of beer to the guys working night shift, the Hard Clear Anodize makes the most sense.

Single process, so damn hard that things seldom stick to it.

You wana be cool?

Do those parts in Hard Clear and then apply several coats Paste Wax.

The parts will look great and stay that way, road dirt, muddy water, what ever, stuff just slides off.

*

Dealing with a limited budget?

Get your parts as clean and shiny as possible and apply 10 or more coats of of Paste Wax.

I use Carnauba Wax for things like this, but maybe there is something more modern thats better.

*

I am not a plater, but hundreds of times over the years I have had to plan, quote, and produce, parts that had plating called out.

Mostly Chrome and Cadmium, but also different forms of Nickel, as well as Copper, Bronze, Silver, even Tungsten & Carbide.


The above is from memory and some deduction, always check with a plater as to what can be done & what can not be done.


A "Good Plater"


( One that agrees with all that windsong I just typed out,..... LOL)


MM
 
CudaChick1968 said:
Wow Jim, nice write up! There's no such thing as talking too much if you're passing on useful information.

I've never heard of hard anodize and will definitely look into it -- the better informed my customers can be about their options outside my shop, the better all around. I know, it's an unusual business practice ... but I do much better with the honest approach than concentrating on the almighty dollar and an early retirement.

I can see the advantages to using a plating company for parts cleaning so I can focus on the actual powder work. My out-in-the-boonies location and not having a plating company conveniently nearby are definite drawbacks though. Greenfield's a hole in the wall.

Though some of my regulars don't mind the extra charge I impose if parts show up totally filthy (I'd rather spend my days spraying powder than scraping), most of my guys wash the parts and sometimes even blast them before they ship them here -- saves them money on their bill -- so an outside service isn't really going to help much. Media blasting is an integral part of powder coating too so the effort, time and expense of having an ultra-spotless part to put in my blast cabinet isn't going to make much difference when I start throwing 90 psi of Black Beauty at it.

Now you send me something with CNC machine oil all over it, I just might take ya up on that plating company hookup Jim. That stuff's kicked my butt more than once. :-D

Next time we talk on the phone you gotta tell me about that reverse polarity strip. :glasses7:
Click to expand...



Leanna,

I will do a brief explain of Hard Anodize, pass on an idea, then stop for a bit.

There are a lot of sharp members here that know the same stuff as I do and more, I just like to talk.



Ok... The quick version 0==]=====> En Garde!


Let's start with Steel, (there's a reason for this).......

A common process to fasteners and many other Steel parts, where either because of appearance, or to impart a mild form of corrosion resistance, is Black Oxide.

Socket head cap screws and firearms are good examples.

Although both the above are available in plated versions,here we are talking about the ones that appear
Blue or Black.

"Gun Bluing" is basically the Black Oxide process


Ok, now......


When metals containing Iron suffer the effects of corrosion what is produced is Rust,... "Iron Oxide"

Common Gun Bluing is basically a controlled type of Rusting,.. thus the word "Oxide" ,the material has "Oxidized" yielding "Oxides of Iron".... "Iron Oxide"



*Ok,.. enough of that, but that is the foundation*



When Aluminum corrodes, (oxidizes), it produces "Aluminum Oxide"

Sound familiar?

The lion share of all Grinding Wheels and Sand Paper are comprised of Aluminum Oxide.


What is Aluminum Oxide you ask?


In one of it's purest forms....... it is the gem stone "Ruby"


So,..... a "controlled rusting" process when applied to Aluminum produces a "Ruby Coating"


"I am making this quick, this is thumbnail, but you get the idea"


That is why a piece of aluminum that has been Hard Anodized can scratch a deep gouge into a beer bottle.

Ok done...



Now the idea,......

The call goes like this.

"Ring"

Good morning Phoenix what can I do for you?

* I have an aluminum intake that I would like power coated, it's brand new.

Where are you?

* Nashville

Ok, there is very likely anodizing or plating shops in your area.
We have had some headaches with oils and coolant getting into castings and screwing up the works.

* I am online now, I see several around here.

Good, call a couple and ask about getting that intake cleaned, then don't touch it with bare hands, slip it into a plastic bag, put it back in the box and send it to me.

* Cool

I would handle it on this end but we're so far out in the sticks the pay phones are still a dime.

* No problem, thanks



Something like that.


I was just thinking, there may not be platers near you, but often there may be one near your customer.

If a unit comes to you boiled out clean, that would be cool.


You just have to remember to ask.


With a little searching on your part you could find some shops in an area, call them and ask about cleaning & cost.

If you receive parts fairly often from an area, you can make some calls and develop a relationship with a couple of places and send customers there.


As always your customers should ask for the shop lead man and have a case of beer in his trunk for trade, 90% of the time they jump on the job get it done and you are on your way.

As a back up, have some cash money in your pocket, just say," I brought some cash money,.... and I don't need a receipt.


Works every time

:iconbigg:
 
Hey Gang. I was doing work on the engine and the intake is preety much fresh off the top, so super clean it is not, but this is my Air Gap RPm Chudachick1968 power coated for me in Alein Silver with polished script.

The photos aren't the clearest and the lighting is a dim 60 watts. So, this doesn't show the sunlights abilty to get the color to pop! I'll try again tomorrow, though it's supposed to be raining.

This color was selected due it being closest to the natural OOTB color of the intake. And we all like that new aluminum intake OOTB now don't we? I do!!!!
 

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Rob, you got pretty lucky with that casting -- not all intake logos scream "polish me!" but yours was just too sharp and clean to deny. Most of the time they're so bumpy doing that would just flatten and blur the letters and lose all the detail.

Looks like you've been getting it mocked up. Feel free to share some after pics for my website when you get it all buttoned up. :-D I appreciate your business as always.
 
Think you got enough silicone on that T-stat cover?? :) Nice looking intake though!
 
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