Frame Rail Connectors

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Check out US Car Tools website. They weld them on while the car is on a rotisserie. These folks are a professional restoration company. It makes sense to me weld like that. It's not much fun welding above you on your back in a shower of sparks.
 
Yea....this thread kinda took on a life of its own. I moved on for now since I got more parts for other assemblies. I will get back to the frame rail connectors later. It's obvious though that there are conflicting opinions on how this should be done.

I'm just gonna keep going and install them later. I already welded some support across the door openings to keep things tight as I move forward.

I guess I will let you know what happened when it gets done.

Till then....

Mop
 
I like the emotions and enthusiasm we have on our individual perspectives on what's right and what's wrong. :D I am so juiced right now. Can't we all just do burnouts until our tires blow. And then debate on which tire lasted the longest and why? lol You guys are AWESOME!!! Mopar or No Car.

:burnout::burnout:zMAX DRAGWAY:burnout::burnout:

:happy1::cheers:
 
jefflock said:
Check out US Car Tools website. They weld them on while the car is on a rotisserie. These folks are a professional restoration company. It makes sense to me weld like that. It's not much fun welding above you on your back in a shower of sparks.
Click to expand...

Yes, and IMO they are the best and strongest ready made connectors available. If done right, they will look like the factory put them there.
 
Nice paint,
IMO your doors will not be in alignment after the extra weight of the glass, reguators etc is installed.
Put the connecters in after the car is finished setting on the weight of the suspension.
 
Glass and regulators are already in so that blows that theory....like I said...many conflicting opinions....no one here has sold me either way.

I had US contoured frame rails and they would not line up to the bottom profile to save my life. Way to much grinding and modifying to get them to even fit and remember that verts have the torque boxes to deal with. So they went back.

Your right they look great and fit decent as long as you have a pristine under carriage.

Also no connectors are a simple bolt or weld in on verts. I'm going to have to cut into the T-boxes then re weld them just to get the connector to sit around the rear frame rail properly.

I'm moving on with other projects till I get to my buddies shop where we can get it on a lift and have easier access. Nothing is going to change or move till then so I'm not worried.
 
Here's a little more info to stir the pot....Hotchkis wants a loaded chassis.

[ame]http://www.hotchkis.net/_uploaded_files/4011S.pdf[/ame]

Here they deal with one of my issues.....torque boxes. As you can see there are over 10 pages so there is more to it than just slamming them in and welding them in place.

You guys can debate Hotchkis install methods while I move along with the project. Enjoy the fuel. :D

Mop
 
momoparman said:
Here's a little more info to stir the pot....Hotchkis wants a loaded chassis.

http://www.hotchkis.net/_uploaded_files/4011S.pdf

Here they deal with one of my issues.....torque boxes. As you can see there are over 10 pages so there is more to it than just slamming them in and welding them in place.

You guys can debate Hotchkis install methods while I move along with the project. Enjoy the fuel. :D

Mop
Click to expand...

And US Cartool installs them on a rotisserie.

I think the take home there is that two professional shops install them in completely different ways with similar results.

If the body fits line up now, I'd install them on the rotisserie. If you really want to be paranoid, get out a level and check the frame to see if its bowed any on the rotisserie. But since you've already installed door supports, I would wager that the frame is in the same shape as it was on the ground.

As far as 10 pages of instructions, those are really big pictures. Which is nice, but all they really do in that 10 pages is bolt them in and weld them up. Also, those instructions are for an E-body. The Hotchkis A-body connectors do not bolt to the back of the spring hangers, and the way the torque boxes will interfere will be different.

hss-4014_w.jpg
 
Either way the TB's are in the way and have to be cut in order to get the connectors to properly wrap the frame. There is no way around that. Also I am using MP connectors not Hotchkis...that was for reference purposes.

Like I said. I'm moving on and will get to it once I have the suspension/wheels on and I can roll it onto a lift.

I don't think there is any magic to the install...just a matter of when to install them.

I would feel better being able to stand up to weld rather than laying on my back and getting showered with slag. I already went through that when I installed the new floor pans. Lots of ruined clothes and burned skin and that sucked.

So I will wait and deal with it later.
 
Not sure how the original torque boxes are installed, when I installed the frame connectors in my Duster I did the connectors first and then added the torque boxes, welding them over the top of the connectors.

If the TB's are just spot welded in, I'd be inclined to drill out the spot welds on the inside and pull them out of the way to install the connectors, then weld them back into the connectors afterward. But I haven't seen a set of stock TB's, so that may not help. Even if they're seam welded I think I'd probably go the same route, although it would be more time consuming. The other solution would be to cut a slot/notch in the TB at the frame and slide the end of the connector up through it, but that would make welding that side of the frame connector a bit more difficult.

Here's mine for reference. Mine are home built 1.5"x3" steel, but the connection at the end is pretty much the same as the Mopar pieces, I think mine cover more surface area but its the same idea.

dcc-4286868.jpg


IMG_5012_zpse0044a73.jpg
 
The factory tb's will need to be cut with a wheel...slotted basically. A little grinding on the frame to clean up the tab that extends from the tb to the rail will make it flat again. That will allow me to slide the rear rail squarely into place then I will weld the tb back to the frame rail. I believe thats the cleanest, easiest way to get them installed right

I have looked at it long enough....I know what to do....just gotta do it.

But not today.

Stay tuned I will post when I get there.
 
My US Cartool connectors came with instructions to put them in with suspension loaded. After reading the many thoughts, ideas, and presumed facts I have come to my own conclusion.

They recommend the suspension be loaded because they are assuming the car is complete, and installing them without the suspension loaded could cause doors and panels to not match back up after installed. With the car in pieces and on a rotisserie, this probably is not needed.

I just installed mine from. US Cartool. The car is not finished, but doors and body panels had been aligned so we did load the suspension and did not have to adjust the doors after.
 
Just a thought on the subject, if frame connectors would've been installed at the factory when would they be installed, during construction of uni-body before suspension or after the install of drivetrain and suspension sitting on all four wheels after paint. It makes sense that it would be during construction of the uni-body on a jig. So it seems that if fenders, doors are aligned and frame is level and all that you would be fine doing it on a rotisserie or on jack stands. Just a thought.
 
hotrod426 said:
Just a thought on the subject, if frame connectors would've been installed at the factory when would they be installed, during construction of uni-body before suspension or after the install of drivetrain and suspension sitting on all four wheels after paint. It makes sense that it would be during construction of the uni-body on a jig. So it seems that if fenders, doors are aligned and frame is level and all that you would be fine doing it on a rotisserie or on jack stands. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

IF they were going to do it at the factory they probably would have stayed with a solid frame front to rear to begin with and never designed the uni body.. JMO
 
I just completed installing frame rail ties on my 66 Dart. I used the US car weld in. First, as said before earlier in this thread these didnt fit so well and the grinding to fit them would have taken forever. I did some fitting and then decided to weld. I had to fill some gaps that were 3/8" or better, but once it was done the job looked very nice. My car has been stripped down to nothing but doors left on it. I left the doors on for the structural support since I have it on a rotisserie and I rolled the car on its side to do the welding. The alignment on the doors didnt seem to change when I rolled it back over, and they open and shut as they did before, but its still on the rotisserie. Guess I wont know for sure until its got all suspension back on and sitting on the floor with all weight back in. Im also moving the springs in while its rolled over on its side so thats more cutting and welding of the frame and body.
Rodney
 
I welded the connectors in my Duster with it leveled on a four piont lift. we adjusted everyhing so the doors opened and closed smoothly and lifted it higher and welded away. I have no problems with the handeling or body parts not lining up. and what a difference they make on a launch, you will enjoy the car even more when done. By the way that is one beautiful paint job. hope this helped .
 
we had not planned on frame connectors

We should had done them before the project snowballed into new headliner/carpet

lesson learned...stripped the car back down

anyway, we supported the more door in the middle while on the rotisserie

114.jpg


113.jpg


also moving the springs in, to fix the traction issues..

014-1.jpg
 
It's your car do it how you want.I can only tell you how I did mine,on a rotisserie empty hull no fenders or doors and worked out fine. I built my own so I can't say good or bad about others.68 Cuda convertable
 
hotrod426 said:
Just a thought on the subject, if frame connectors would've been installed at the factory when would they be installed, during construction of uni-body before suspension or after the install of drivetrain and suspension sitting on all four wheels after paint. It makes sense that it would be during construction of the uni-body on a jig. So it seems that if fenders, doors are aligned and frame is level and all that you would be fine doing it on a rotisserie or on jack stands. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

My 2 cents. I totally agree. If you have the car dissassembled, you make the unibody as stiff as
possible, this way the suspension works as it should and doesn't twist the body around as it travels. Obviously, it can be done either way.
 
I think the take home message here is it just doesn't matter.
 
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