Front Brake Pads

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scremn

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I have a 72 Demon with the Kelsey-Hayes front disc brakes. I am replacing the front brake
hose on both sides with braided lines and want to upgrade the front pads. The car has drum brakes on the rear. I was looking at EBC brake pads and would like your opinion of their pads
or other pads that people liked for their car. My car has manual brakes.

Thanks, Jim
 
I put EBC pads on my 64 Sport Fury, and there was a noticeable improvement. I used the red pads.
 
Thanks for that information. I appreciate it.
 
I tried those type pads, very hard feeling to me, and went back to organic type. I did not like the feel. I do not drive to the point of braking that hard on the country roads.
 
its the same k/h type caliper that ford used as well as shelby's mustang . i'm sure someone makes a killer d11 pad .
 
I like Organics in my streeter
I have same disc/drum system as you;but with power-assist, and a manual trans.
The car has 235/60-14s up front, and 295/50-15s on the back.
I was able to take the guts out of the Proportioning valve and so the rear brakes work too!I think the factory played it way to safe in the rear brake department, I even upgraded the rear w/cs, to 1" IIRC.
She stops real nice.
Plus the organics are easy on the discs; mine are circa 1970. I machined them myself in year 1999.
 
EBC makes good pads, but they're expensive and not always better in street applications. Race pad compounds usually work better at higher temperatures, which is why they don't fade as much. But the downside to that is they tend not to work as well when they're cold, so it's a trade off. On the street in normal driving conditions most of your brake applications will probably be with the brakes at a lower temperature than most race pads are designed for. So you have to be careful with going overboard on brake pads, because it's easy to get a more expensive high performance brake pad that doesn't match how you're using your car.

As for rotor wear, if you're more concerned about how long your rotors last than you are about how well your car stops then your priorities are thoroughly screwed up. Would you rather save your rotors or say, the bodywork on the front end of your car if you don't stop short enough? Yeah, I'd rather replace a set of rotors every now and then.

I like plain old semi-metallics for street use. They resist fade better than regular organic pads, but they don't need higher brake temperatures to work properly like a lot of race pads so they're consistent under normal driving conditions. They're harder on rotors than plain organics, but they stop better too.
 
1969383S said:
I tried those type pads, very hard feeling to me, and went back to organic type. I did not like the feel. I do not drive to the point of braking that hard on the country roads.
Click to expand...
Feel is important. I've had pads and shoes on various vehciles I didn't like because they didn't feel right. One set of pads on my wagon were too grippy on initial application. On my Barrcuda, I felt the Mopar Cyclweld pads required a lot of pedal pressure to bite. Its hard to know until you've tried it. :( Its always worth sifting through feedback freom others and the only other thing we sometimes have is the friction rating in the edge code.

How a lining grips under different temperatures and conditions can vary quite a bit within a material group. I've had semi-metal lined pads and shoes that had very decent grap when cold. I've been cautious jumping on the 'ceramic' bandwagon, but did strongly consider the EBC reds along with Carbotech's bobcat. For my own reasons it made more sense for me to go with Porterfield's for my car.

72blunblu. The EBC Reds are sold as street linings. I suspect you know that but others reading may have inferred that they are a race or track lining.
 
I really appreciate all of the input from everyone. Thanks!
 
FWIW. Porterfield's R4S is their street lining. It can be used on shoes as well, which is what I did for my Barracuda.
It's not cheap and is not going knock your socks off but works well.
Rochester Brake & Clutch is another option. More old school. Call them, discuss your needs and they'll line the pads or shoes.
 
72bluNblu said:
As for rotor wear, if you're more concerned about how long your rotors last than you are about how well your car stops then your priorities are thoroughly screwed up.
Click to expand...

I am a streeter;my top speed is 100kph/62mph. I will never get a speeding ticket, because up here the law is very harsh on speeders. In fact, on the hiway, you will find me poking along at 50/55, not only because of the cops, but because I like poking along. It only adds a couple of minutes to my 15/20 minute trips. And the dual 3" tailpipes are singing a happy song in overdrive, at 55=1900rpm.
In 1999 when I installed my KH system there were no new rotors available; And I only had one spare set; so yes, long rotor life was a priority.
At that time, my 367 engine had 11.3 compression,measured cylinder pressure over 185psi, and a 4 speed; so when the throttle slammed shut at rpm; well, my wife will no longer ride along with me, one or two times was one time too many. And yes I was trying really hard to show her a good time.
Because of this combination;my front brakes are pretty much along for a free ride, as witnessed by having 125,000 miles on my front pads; whereas the car has burned off 3 sets of rear shoes, for which drums and shoes were and still are available.So yes, I was concerned about rotor life, and still am.
When I do hit the brakes hard, the rears, with 295s back there, do a mighty fine job.
With just 235/60-14s on the front, organics are able to lock the front wheels at speeds as high a 35/40 mph ...... maybe more I just never felt the need to try it. I'm guessing this is because the rear brakes, together with compression braking, are doing such a fine job.I would say outstanding job, but I have no yardstick with which to measure it, because typically, the rear brakes are the ones along for a free ride, doing, they say ~15% of the work, when all 4 tires were the same skinny E70s.
I have over 50 years of driving experience; and in all those years, I have never been in a street-car that stops as well as this one. Careful; I didn't say the best ever; only; the best I have ever been in. And since 1999, and in those 125,000 plus miles, I have not had any close calls. Zero,zip,nada,not even scary, cuz you know why? cuz, when I'm driving, I am just driving, not multi-tasking! No radio/no passengers/ no dicks in the next lane/ and I will never have a cellphone.
When I get the urge to be juvenile, I chose my spots very very carefully; I built the car for my pleasure; not for friends, acquaintances, or Joe-blow in the next lane.
On long trips, when I might have a passenger, I remove the 750DP.

On the street; and IMO;
organics rule, because they;
are easy on my discs and drums,
don't need warming up,
do a MORE than adequate job,
Have great feel (after balancing the M/C and rear w/cs, to the tires),
are easy to modulate,
don't puke sticky brake-dust all over my mags,
and yes; are cheap.
If I had ever needed more, I wouldda installed more. It's just that simple.
So, if my priorities are screwed up; ......I'm ok with that.
 
Mattax said:
Feel is important. I've had pads and shoes on various vehciles I didn't like because they didn't feel right. One set of pads on my wagon were too grippy on initial application. On my Barrcuda, I felt the Mopar Cyclweld pads required a lot of pedal pressure to bite. Its hard to know until you've tried it. :( Its always worth sifting through feedback freom others and the only other thing we sometimes have is the friction rating in the edge code.

How a lining grips under different temperatures and conditions can vary quite a bit within a material group. I've had semi-metal lined pads and shoes that had very decent grap when cold. I've been cautious jumping on the 'ceramic' bandwagon, but did strongly consider the EBC reds along with Carbotech's bobcat. For my own reasons it made more sense for me to go with Porterfield's for my car.

72blunblu. The EBC Reds are sold as street linings. I suspect you know that but others reading may have inferred that they are a race or track lining.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, brake feel is important and is a “personal” aspect of brake performance. Not everyone likes the same brake feel, and different driving styles can use different brake feels successfully.

Yeah, I know the reds are marketed as street pads. And honestly while I’ve used EBC pads I haven’t used reds. The marketing on them alone makes me hesitant, less dust & longer lasting rotors like they advertise is not a recipe for improved braking like they claim.

Back to the original point, I like semi-metallics, and I’m perfectly happy admitting that some of that is just my personal preference.

AJ/FormS said:
I am a streeter;my top speed is 100kph/62mph. I will never get a speeding ticket, because up here the law is very harsh on speeders. In fact, on the hiway, you will find me poking along at 50/55, not only because of the cops, but because I like poking along. It only adds a couple of minutes to my 15/20 minute trips. And the dual 3" tailpipes are singing a happy song in overdrive, at 55=1900rpm.
In 1999 when I installed my KH system there were no new rotors available; And I only had one spare set; so yes, long rotor life was a priority.
At that time, my 367 engine had 11.3 compression,measured cylinder pressure over 185psi, and a 4 speed; so when the throttle slammed shut at rpm; well, my wife will no longer ride along with me, one or two times was one time too many. And yes I was trying really hard to show her a good time.
Because of this combination;my front brakes are pretty much along for a free ride, as witnessed by having 125,000 miles on my front pads; whereas the car has burned off 3 sets of rear shoes, for which drums and shoes were and still are available.So yes, I was concerned about rotor life, and still am.
When I do hit the brakes hard, the rears, with 295s back there, do a mighty fine job.
With just 235/60-14s on the front, organics are able to lock the front wheels at speeds as high a 35/40 mph ...... maybe more I just never felt the need to try it. I'm guessing this is because the rear brakes, together with compression braking, are doing such a fine job.I would say outstanding job, but I have no yardstick with which to measure it, because typically, the rear brakes are the ones along for a free ride, doing, they say ~15% of the work, when all 4 tires were the same skinny E70s.
I have over 50 years of driving experience; and in all those years, I have never been in a street-car that stops as well as this one. Careful; I didn't say the best ever; only; the best I have ever been in. And since 1999, and in those 125,000 plus miles, I have not had any close calls. Zero,zip,nada,not even scary, cuz you know why? cuz, when I'm driving, I am just driving, not multi-tasking! No radio/no passengers/ no dicks in the next lane/ and I will never have a cellphone.
When I get the urge to be juvenile, I chose my spots very very carefully; I built the car for my pleasure; not for friends, acquaintances, or Joe-blow in the next lane.
On long trips, when I might have a passenger, I remove the 750DP.

On the street; and IMO;
organics rule, because they;
are easy on my discs and drums,
don't need warming up,
do a MORE than adequate job,
Have great feel (after balancing the M/C and rear w/cs, to the tires),
are easy to modulate,
don't puke sticky brake-dust all over my mags,
and yes; are cheap.
If I had ever needed more, I wouldda installed more. It's just that simple.
So, if my priorities are screwed up; ......I'm ok with that.
Click to expand...

I’m glad you haven’t had any close calls, and I’m sure some of that is your skill as a driver. But you also have to consider that you probably see a hell of a lot less traffic than others here, and that also plays a huge role.

As for rotor wear, I’m not changing my opinion. If rotor wear is a major priority for choosing your brake pads instead of braking performance it’s time to do something different. Get rotors that are readily available or admit you’ve got a show car because you’re trying to conserve wearable parts.

The fact that you’re using 3 sets of shoes to one set of pads should really indicate to you something is screwed up in your braking system. I’m sure you’re aware that most disk/drum vehicles go through about 2 sets of front pads for every set of rear shoes. Most of these vehicles should be between 70/30 and 80/20 on brake usage front/rear. Tire size definitely plays a part in that, and I’m sure you’re 295’s our back move some of that brake bias around. Heck if you said you were using one set of pads to one set of shoes I might believe everything was “ok” and that was just a product of your set up. But wider tires out back doesn’t change your static weight balance, and it doesn’t significantly change weight transfer to the front under braking. So if you’re using 3 sets of rear shoes to one set of front pads your front brakes are vastly underperforming. And it’s probably not just the pads.
 
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I figured you knew.
wink-gif.gif

I didn't try them either. The whole need to transfer material requires a process that's not practical around here, and also would lock me in without a lot of options.
Carbotech and Porterfield have a series of related linings (as does Hawk) which means I'd have a baseline to work from rather than throw darts again.

I'll say I'm pretty light on brakes. Generally go through a few pads or shoes sets without needing to recut or replace. Nor do I go through pads or shoes that fast. Depends also on what I'm driving and where I am driving. Even with an automatic I tend to downshift on long hills if appropriate and stuff like that. Who knows what other variables are at play. Like you said, traffic can def play a role.

I too generally have liked semi-metalics. On my 4 drum Nova I went to the junk yard to salvage some because the parts stores didn't have any.
laugh2-gif.gif
This was long before internet. Also had to get a backing plate from a yard after I broke the anchor pin. Guess I was a little hard on those brakes... :rolleyes:
 
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AJ/FormS said:
Yeah whatever
Click to expand...

Believe what you want AJ, doesn't hurt my feelings.

But I've never driven a non-ABS disk/drum car that was even close to 1:1 on front pad to rear shoe wear, they've all been more like 2:1. And for the most part that's all manual transmission cars and I do a significant amount of downshifting and engine braking too. With the way your car is raked even the 295's out back don't explain a 1:3 front to back brake wear. The coefficient of friction of the tires is the same, and you don't get the same amount of braking force per square inch of tire patch because you don't have the same load per square inch in the back because of the front to rear weight balance. So the extra tire width is not a 1:1 increase in braking force over the front, adding 20% more tire does not increase the rear braking by 20%. Even my car with 1.12" torsion bars up fronts dips under braking, and that's weight transfer. So even if your weight balance was perfectly 50/50 the brake split would be more like 70/30, and that means your brake wear should be more like 2:1. Something isn't right. If that doesn't bother you, then carry on. But if it was my car I'd be investigating, because no matter how good your braking "feels" the physics doesn't add up.

Mattax said:
I figured you knew. View attachment 1715504712
I didn't try them either. The whole need to transfer material requires a process that's not practical around here, and also would lock me in without a lot of options.
Carbotech and Porterfield have a series of related linings (as does Hawk) which means I'd have a baseline to work from rather than throw darts again.

I'll say I'm pretty light on brakes. Generally go through a few pads or shoes sets without needing to recut or replace. Nor do I go through pads or shoes that fast. Depends also on what I'm driving and where I am driving. Even with an automatic I tend to downshift on long hills if appropriate and stuff like that. Who knows what other variables are at play. Like you said, traffic can def play a role.

I too generally have liked semi-metalics. On my 4 drum Nova I went to the junk yard to salvage some because the parts stores didn't have any.View attachment 1715504713 This was long before internet. Also had to get a backing plate from a yard after I broke the anchor pin. Guess I was a little hard on those brakes... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yeah I just like semi-metallics. I have tried ceramic compounds and I wasn't a fan, but that wasn't a set of EBC reds so I won't pass judgement on those. I'm generally not super hard on brakes, even on my Challenger which was an auto I got 60k+ miles out of the first set of pads and the shoes were less than half worn down, rotors had plenty of meat and didn't need turned. But that was with 11.75" disks and 11x2.5" drums and 275's all around. With my Duster and the T56 now I have a lot of gears to go through so even when I'm having fun out on the mountain roads I'm not on a brakes a ton, can pretty much do most of my speed control with the 6 gears and 10:1 engine compression. I try not to push so hard on public roads that I need to be hard on the brakes, I like to have fun but leave ample margin for everyone else. So around town with all the traffic, lights and intersections is most of my brake use.
 
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