Front plate/ water pump question

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CopperheadDart

CopperheadDart

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I got to thinking about my front engine plate and water pump as I assemble my 340. The front plate will sandwich between the timing cover and electric water pump. I'm intrigued about possible turbulence or air pockets that may happen in the void in the cover where the mechanical pump impeller would normally sit. It's around 1/4" deep there. Seems like welding up a dam across to isolate the inlet and outlet holes in the cover would benefit flow.
Anyone have thoughts or experience on this?

20240210_174302.jpg
 
I machine the cover down to get the blades from the water pump as close to the timing cover as I can.

Even with high flow water pumps, you don’t want the blades very far from the cover.
 
^^^^^. This. Any gap allows the coolant to escape.....& not get pumped into the engine to do it's cooling job.
 
Right, machining the cover down is out of the question, as I have the midplate and front plate locations locked in. Machining the cover would cause the front plate to be too far forward, so I'm thinking about tig welding a dam around the coolant inlets and outlets so no coolant can bypass the pump via the big void where a mechanical pump would be.
Hopefully I can get the aluminum clean enough to do this. I'll post some pics of what i come up with.
 
CopperheadDart said:
Right, machining the cover down is out of the question, as I have the midplate and front plate locations locked in. Machining the cover would cause the front plate to be too far forward, so I'm thinking about tig welding a dam around the coolant inlets and outlets so no coolant can bypass the pump via the big void where a mechanical pump would be.
Hopefully I can get the aluminum clean enough to do this. I'll post some pics of what i come up with.
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Maybe you could drill a hole at the top of one side and install a bleeder valve and just bleed all the air out
 
I've run a motor plate with a Moroso electric water pump with no problems over the last 12 + years. My application is race only, so street apps might be a bit different.
 
CopperheadDart said:
I got to thinking about my front engine plate and water pump as I assemble my 340. The front plate will sandwich between the timing cover and electric water pump. I'm intrigued about possible turbulence or air pockets that may happen in the void in the cover where the mechanical pump impeller would normally sit. It's around 1/4" deep there. Seems like welding up a dam across to isolate the inlet and outlet holes in the cover would benefit flow.
Anyone have thoughts or experience on this?

View attachment 1716205433
Click to expand...
I don't think it matters much if you are using an electric water pump since that entire chamber is for cold water. The hot water exits the engine from the intake manifold. You can buy the block plate from Meziere if you're worried about it but it will space things out another 1/4 inch or so. Backing Plate, SB Mopar traditional (non Magnum)
 
CopperheadDart said:
Right, machining the cover down is out of the question, as I have the midplate and front plate locations locked in. Machining the cover would cause the front plate to be too far forward, so I'm thinking about tig welding a dam around the coolant inlets and outlets so no coolant can bypass the pump via the big void where a mechanical pump would be.
Hopefully I can get the aluminum clean enough to do this. I'll post some pics of what i come up with.
Click to expand...
They aren't inlets and outlets. Those are two inlets. It doesn't really matter if the water flows back and forth between them. Cold water goes into the block on both sides, flow thru the block, up into the heads and out the intake manifold where the thermostat housing is.
 
AndyF said:
They aren't inlets and outlets. Those are two inlets. It doesn't really matter if the water flows back and forth between them. Cold water goes into the block on both sides, flow thru the block, up into the heads and out the intake manifold where the thermostat housing is.
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Ah of course, you make a great point. I'm just over here trying to find a solution for a problem that doesn't exist haha.
This is a track-only, 3/4filled block, just wanting to do everything I can to make sure I can regulate temp.
 
I have a engine plate and a Moroso electric water pump . I didn't do anything but bolt it together. It's been that way for a few years. No problems so far.
 
Also, my engine is a full fill with HardBlok. All I'm cooling are the cylinder heads and the upper area of the block deck.
 
CopperheadDart said:
Ah of course, you make a great point. I'm just over here trying to find a solution for a problem that doesn't exist haha.
This is a track-only, 3/4filled block, just wanting to do everything I can to make sure I can regulate temp.
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This is what you need, billet timing chain cover that gets rid of that cross over.

AR374h (Large).JPG


AR374g (Large).JPG


AR376a (Large).JPG
 
I would like one of those timing covers! I run an engine plate that is cut out for a factory water pump, and use the Meizere back plate and electric water pump. My friend always borrows my backing plate for the dyno
 
73smallblock said:
That's as quite interesting timing cover, where did it come from? I didn't see a small block one one AR's website.
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I designed it and made a few of them. They were very, very cool, but kind of expensive so it took a long time to sell them. I think there might be about 5 of them floating around in the Mopar world but I've never seen one of them on an engine or for sale. Not sure what happened to them.
 
AndyF said:
I designed it and made a few of them. They were very, very cool, but kind of expensive so it took a long time to sell them. I think there might be about 5 of them floating around in the Mopar world but I've never seen one of them on an engine or for sale. Not sure what happened to them.
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That's a shame because I really like the design and the way it would work with a motor plate.
 
One cool thing about that setup was that you could changed the cam timing without disturbing the oil pan seal, or removing the motor plate. Just remove the damper then pull the front cover off. The engine was held by two bolts that would support it while the water pump was removed.

The motor plate had o-rings for the water pump so you didn't need to scrape gaskets.

AR376b (Large).JPG
 
AndyF said:
One cool thing about that setup was that you could changed the cam timing without disturbing the oil pan seal, or removing the motor plate. Just remove the damper then pull the front cover off. The engine was held by two bolts that would support it while the water pump was removed.

The motor plate had o-rings for the water pump so you didn't need to scrape gaskets.

View attachment 1716206856
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Awesome
 
AndyF said:
One cool thing about that setup was that you could changed the cam timing without disturbing the oil pan seal, or removing the motor plate. Just remove the damper then pull the front cover off. The engine was held by two bolts that would support it while the water pump was removed.

The motor plate had o-rings for the water pump so you didn't need to scrape gaskets.

View attachment 1716206856
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Please make more so I can buy one! :thumbsup:

Thanks, Bill
 
I'd build a small block just to run one of those, that's a nice part .
 
I'd like to see more of them made also, I'd buy one for my car.
 
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