Bronze Barracuda
Well-Known Member
I found a replacement oil gauge the guy wants $50 for it. He tested it for continuity. But before I buy it I'm bringing my multi reader. Testing the ohms. I'll see if he will let me pop the lid off it too.
Gauge Cluster Issues/IVR
- Thread starter Bronze Barracuda
- Start date
-
What's more interesting is how many didn't understand this. Nobody ever needed to open the gauge to disable the limiter. That started with one person on a Imperial forum web page many years ago. Vendors of solid state regulators simply ran with that info rather than investigate this application/assembly.
Just isolate the limiter from ground. The 12 volt wire serves nothing else, take it away from this limiter as far back as harness connector if you want, and route it to the replacement limiter or regulator. If the fuel gauge is good it will function like any 2 post gauge. Lift one of those and look for any chassis ground. There isn't one. Only current path is through the gauge.
Please note, if the replacement is a solid state like 7805 regulator,,, Make damn sure that thing is chassis grounded. Without a ground it will pass the 12 volts straight though and out to the gauges. Some of the more expensive packages have ground fault protection built in.
Sad and unfortunately all too common situation.
I'm going to leave the IVR and gages alone assuming they pass the remaining tests. Since the fuel gage worked OK, and the oil and temperature senders were getting less than 5 Volts (need to find my notes on exact number) I suspect the problem is in circuit resistance. I need to prove or disprove that.
$50?? Wow, I have some extras if you were looking for cheaper.
Bronze Barracuda
Well-Known Member
Well yes! I am always about saving money.
This one is $50 Canadian, no shipping as it is local. So itd have to be about $25 US to be of much in the way of savings.
I dont want to cut another members grass if hes a member here. Keep in mind spares of these guages are handy as heck.
Send pm if interested.
Send pm if interested.
The mechanical limiter emits a pulse voltage. Analog meter will show something like 5 to 6 volts at senders. Digital meter will show the 2.X, 3.X pulse that averages 5 to 6 volts.
Bronze Barracuda
Well-Known Member
Nope don't worry about that. I found this one locally. Through word of mouth. I was looking for repair places, when I heard about someone that had some old Mopars. So a quick phone call and found out he had one. I was a bit shocked by what he wanted but ces't la vie.
I am going to bypass the amp gauge and hook up a volt meter as I will be installing an aftermarket a/c unit. I will probably go to a different gauge cluster in the future as well. If/when this one fails.
With a little work, a volt gauge can be put in place of the original amp gauge. the wiring must be changed. There's a thread with more info here somewhere. I did several of these conversions for rally panel owners. I used a Sunpro volts gauge, transplanted the original needle onto that volts gauge too. I still have some custom gauge screen decals with the volts scale on them. The downside is 1 nice new screen and repainted needle doesn't look so great in a cluster of 4 where others still look their age.
Bronze Barracuda
Well-Known Member
well this is good news I was hoping for something like that. Do you think there is a way to do something similar with the other gauges? or maybe because they all run off a similar 5 volt reduced from 12 @ 20 ohms this fact would make it that much more difficult?
Either way thanks for the idea, I really like that way.
Don't know. I could renew the original gauges so I never looked at aftermarket, or opened that can of worms. Two factor to consider... Aftermarket electric oil gauges are quite expensive. Routing a live oil line to this location wouldn't be simple. The oil and temp gauges are mounted sort of upside down. If aftermarket gauge had to go in same way.. Needle swing would be backward to OEM screens. Now that the aftermarket does offer all 4 of these gauges new, there is no need for me to do anything more.
It's on the bench now so I'll rig a test of the IVR.
At the temperature sender varied around 3 Volts. 4 Volts with lead disconnected from sender
At the oil pressure sender, varied around 3 volts either.
Don't recall if I used a digital or analog meter. My guess is analog.
The things we don't write down and learn are important we learn along the way...
Some bench tests today.
Found my notes.
At the temperature sender varied around 3 Volts. 4 Volts with lead disconnected from sender
At the oil pressure sender, varied around 3 volts either.
Don't recall if I used a digital or analog meter. My guess is analog.
The things we don't write down and learn are important we learn along the way...
Some bench tests today.
Mechanical limiters are just that... mechanical. It works fine until it fails. We know it will eventually. We know its 50 years old. So, run it until you have no choice but to replace it or take advantage of opportunity to replace it.
We dont know how long a solid state regulator will live either but... with minimal effort we can locate the thing by the fusebox or anywhere it can be replaced in a minute.
The E-body doesn't have its limiter in a gauge or even plugged into a circuit board. Hell there aint a circuit board. Their limiter is hanging with a screw like a horn relay, etc... That's Chryslers optimal "how to" example.
My own solid state regulator is still mounted where the noise capasitor was but... I have a custom built rally panel. I think I could pull the stereo and reach though that opening to replace it if needed. It has been in service more than 13 years now.
We dont know how long a solid state regulator will live either but... with minimal effort we can locate the thing by the fusebox or anywhere it can be replaced in a minute.
The E-body doesn't have its limiter in a gauge or even plugged into a circuit board. Hell there aint a circuit board. Their limiter is hanging with a screw like a horn relay, etc... That's Chryslers optimal "how to" example.
My own solid state regulator is still mounted where the noise capasitor was but... I have a custom built rally panel. I think I could pull the stereo and reach though that opening to replace it if needed. It has been in service more than 13 years now.
Why not just leave the stock guage face. Assuming the volt gauge reads 1/2 scale (at about 13v)or more in the correct direction you will know if it is charging.
The screen decal with volts scale is simply an option. Center of Sunpro volts gauge screen is 13.2 volts. So a little below center of amp gauge screen on this gauge is not exactly discharge is it? I did adjust those volts gauges that didn't get the custom screen so 12 volts would be in the center of the amp gauge screen.
Bronze Barracuda
Well-Known Member
Alright I got a sunpro volt gauge on Amazon. I had credit which I did not realize, so I only had to lay out $4.44. I was reading another thread that has 9 pages to date. That has a lot of info on both subjects. The Sunpro swap and the MAD amp bypass. Has anyone done this combo in a way that had worked successfully for a long period? There seems to be a lot of differing opinions on how to do the MAD bypass.
Actually not. We only know the alternator is running and has the potential to charge.
I think you know this.
So many people confuse what the meters indicate that it was important to point out.
I'm fine with letting run 'til it dies. Pulling the panel wasn't that difficult.
I am not fine with putting it, or any of the gages back if they are not fully operational. That's what I want to verify.
Today's test seem to show everything working. I say seem because there were a couple anomolies to the results.
Each gage connected individual to a pair of D cells showed a relatively high reading.
The IVR output on the multimeter 5 Volt scale bounced over 5 V each swing, but on the 15 Volt scale, only bounced to roughly 4 Volts.
Of course that's pretty crude way to evaluate the IVR output.
Attaching a 22 Ohm resistor to each gage's output stud brought all of the gages to 1/2 when the IVR was supplied 12 to 14 Volts.
This seemed closest to an operational evaluation.
The only hiccup was the temperature gage which hung at the 1/6 mark for a while and then suddenly clicked to 1/2 scale.
I'm guessing that would have to be a mechanical hangup to jump like that.
Nothing fancy here. Mostly jumpers. A few crimped connectors for the 12 volt supply, and the only resistors I have happened to have.
Agreed, that's all any volt meter shows, I was just saying to keep original look keep the face plate. the exact voltage is of nominal help, if the pointer is too far to one side or the other of center you have an issue
Last edited:
I built a 7805 5V regulator to replace the IVR & it burned up twice on me. Don’t know what was going on. Cheap Chinese parts maybe. Been doing electronics all my life. Bought a $8 5v switching power supply on Amazon. It was easier than building something on my own and has worked fine. Might be a good option if you are cheap like me. Also don’t have to do any electronic fabrication.
[QUOTE="Mattax, post: 1972858065, member: 29156
The only hiccup was the temperature gauge which hung at the 1/6 mark for a while and then suddenly clicked to 1/2 scale. I'm guessing that would have to be a mechanical hangup to jump like that.[/QUOTE]
Yep, That's why I had to have a decade resistance box to service these gauges. I needed to see a somewhat fluid like movement when needle travels up and down with a wide variety of resistance values thrown at them. I never sit in the car and watch my gauge needles go home at switch off but I knew a customer might. Believe me it aint easy. This needle is on the post in 2 places and its too tender too. Just a little push can distort alignment of those 2 holes or more correctly, the parallel of those 2 planes. Where needle is attached to bimetal is a steel shaft sliding and wearing the slot in aluminum. Multiple places to develop a hitch in its giddy up.
Do you see any dust/debris in there?
The only hiccup was the temperature gauge which hung at the 1/6 mark for a while and then suddenly clicked to 1/2 scale. I'm guessing that would have to be a mechanical hangup to jump like that.[/QUOTE]
Yep, That's why I had to have a decade resistance box to service these gauges. I needed to see a somewhat fluid like movement when needle travels up and down with a wide variety of resistance values thrown at them. I never sit in the car and watch my gauge needles go home at switch off but I knew a customer might. Believe me it aint easy. This needle is on the post in 2 places and its too tender too. Just a little push can distort alignment of those 2 holes or more correctly, the parallel of those 2 planes. Where needle is attached to bimetal is a steel shaft sliding and wearing the slot in aluminum. Multiple places to develop a hitch in its giddy up.
Do you see any dust/debris in there?
I haven't tried to look inside yet. Gage is still mounted. All I did before testing was a put a touch of De-Oxit on the studs and the PAL nuts. Then retighten them.
On some studs the brass colored finish had worn or/or showed some oxidation.
Can see it a little on the fuel gage
I've never seen any coating/plating on these studs. I have seen a lot of them very rusty though.
About that limiter... at minimum you would have to pull the panel, take to workbench, remove the bezel, lift the fuel gauge and put a layer or 2 of electric tape over that slither of metal to isolate that limiter from ground. Wire in a substitute.
I'm a firm believer in doing all I can to prevent tomorrows problems while I'm there. Mostly because they seem to occur at the most inopportune times. Maybe that's just my luck. Maybe the points in yours wont stick closed a cook gauges. It happens. Maybe yours will just die.
When and where will you be when you suddenly have no gauges?
About that limiter... at minimum you would have to pull the panel, take to workbench, remove the bezel, lift the fuel gauge and put a layer or 2 of electric tape over that slither of metal to isolate that limiter from ground. Wire in a substitute.
I'm a firm believer in doing all I can to prevent tomorrows problems while I'm there. Mostly because they seem to occur at the most inopportune times. Maybe that's just my luck. Maybe the points in yours wont stick closed a cook gauges. It happens. Maybe yours will just die.
When and where will you be when you suddenly have no gauges?
No worse than some of the other adventures I've had. LOL.
Almost all have been related to replacement, aftermarket and hot rod improvements.
I wouldn't be testing if I was inclined to have them gutted and fitted with electronics.
None of those gages are critical to making it to a destination.
Almost all have been related to replacement, aftermarket and hot rod improvements.
I wouldn't be testing if I was inclined to have them gutted and fitted with electronics.
None of those gages are critical to making it to a destination.
This test is with 2 resistors in parallel for the fuel gage. 11 Ohm or basically Full.
The other gages have a single 22 ohm resistor to ground, so mid gage.
Car battery supplying the power to the 12 volt pin connector.
On the right is a Sun V.A.T. model CB set to the 8 Volt scale. This is better to see than what I used earlier in the week.
The other gages have a single 22 ohm resistor to ground, so mid gage.
Car battery supplying the power to the 12 volt pin connector.
On the right is a Sun V.A.T. model CB set to the 8 Volt scale. This is better to see than what I used earlier in the week.
-
