Hard starting when cold

-
72Plymouth

72Plymouth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
764
Reaction score
35
Location
Vista, CA
Had the motor and trans rebuilt recently. The distributor and wires are new. It is usually hard to start when cold now.

I hold the starter for several seconds and nothing, then try it several more times and still nothing. Then, after a couple of minutes I will try again and it finally starts after turning over a bunch of times.

There is definitely fuel there from looking at the clear filter.

Any ideas on what this can possibly be?
 
what kind of choke do you have and is it properly adjusted. I prefer to use an electric choke on a 4 bbl carb.

Also your ignition timing can play a part in this.
 
If you are actually in Vista, that does not even fit the definition of "cold."

What are we working on, /6? 318 2bbl? Six two barrels on a Man-a-fre?

l.jpg


What do you do to start it? Pump the gas pedal a couple times? Floor it once to set the choke?

Have you checked the accelerator pump to see if it's giving a shot of fuel?

I agree, probably a choke problem, maybe whoever put it together got the linkage all bound up and it's not closing?
 
It's a 318 with a 2bbl It has the mechanical choke that moves with the manifold heat. I just adjusted it so that the choke butterfly is closed all the way when cold. It started a little better but still took a bit.

I checked the timing while the motor was warm idling at about 750 - 800 in park and it read 10 Before TDC. I forgot to pull the vacuum advance so I'll have to recheck it. The spec calls for 0 TDC.
 
Just checked the timing again and put the trans in neutral and plugged the vacuum advance. It is still reading around 11 degrees BTDC.

Is it supposed to be retarded during break in or should it be at 0 as the factory spec calls for? Can this be part of the reason it is hard to start while cold or does it just sound like it's the carb?

Before the rebuild I used to have it advanced a little.



67Dart - When I start it, I floor it once all the way and hold it there while starting (what the owners manual says). Usually, I end up letting go and try it a few times if it doesn't start. Is that your 12 barrel setup??
 
The factory specs are for higher octance leaded gasoline. Tune it to where it runs best. If you should happen to have a small electric assist on that mechanical choke , dis connect the batt wire on its controller.
 
Uh, the only time you hold the pedal on the floor is to clear a flooded engine. Holding the pedal down actually opens the choke a little to help clear excess fuel.

With the choke butterfly closed as you have it adjusted, try it this way:

Cold engine
Key off, press the pedal all the way to the floor 2 or 3 times, releasing it all the way each time. Crank engine with no throttle. It should start. It may need a little "tickle" with the pedal to keep it running - that would mean you need a little more choke.

WOT while cranking should be avoided if it is not flooded. A flooded engine will stumble, miss & belch black smoke from the exhaust.

B.
 
bohica2xo said:
Uh, the only time you hold the pedal on the floor is to clear a flooded engine. Holding the pedal down actually opens the choke a little to help clear excess fuel.

With the choke butterfly closed as you have it adjusted, try it this way:

Cold engine
Key off, press the pedal all the way to the floor 2 or 3 times, releasing it all the way each time. Crank engine with no throttle. It should start. It may need a little "tickle" with the pedal to keep it running - that would mean you need a little more choke.

WOT while cranking should be avoided if it is not flooded. A flooded engine will stumble, miss & belch black smoke from the exhaust.

B.
Click to expand...
It shouldn't take 2 or 3 full throttle strokes to set the choke and start a cold engine. Only one should be enough.
 
72Plymouth said:
Just checked the timing again and put the trans in neutral and plugged the vacuum advance. It is still reading around 11 degrees BTDC.

Is it supposed to be retarded during break in or should it be at 0 as the factory spec calls for? Can this be part of the reason it is hard to start while cold or does it just sound like it's the carb?

Before the rebuild I used to have it advanced a little.



67Dart - When I start it, I floor it once all the way and hold it there while starting (what the owners manual says). Usually, I end up letting go and try it a few times if it doesn't start. Is that your 12 barrel setup??
Click to expand...

No, my attempt at humor, since you didn't post the specifics.

As others said, don't hold it to the floor.

You have a shop manual?

You can download one free:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=132309&highlight=manual,+download

Some folks are reporting issues that after sitting the carb seems to "go empty" and there seems to be some amount of disagreement as to whether it's a fuel evaporation problem or just what.

Next time you want to start, before you do ANYTHING, get a flashlight if necessary, remove the filter, and, holding the choke open so you can see, give the throttle one full stroke. You should immediately see a shot of fuel from the accelerator pump.
 
RedFish said:
It shouldn't take 2 or 3 full throttle strokes to set the choke and start a cold engine. Only one should be enough.
Click to expand...

Sigh. It only take one to set the choke. The others are to enrich things enough to get the car started & keep it running long enough to see if it has enough choke. If it has a few cc's too much fuel in the manifold it will settle down in a minute. If it is lean, or does not have enough choke it will run for a minute before it staggers. Have to start someplace.

B.
 
Thanks everyone. Will try these things.

What's weird is that when I crank it a ton of times, it doesn't choke or attempt to start. Just keeps turning over.

Then all of the sudden it fires up and runs good. Doesn't want to stall or anything.

If the timing is too retarded can this make it hard to start when cold?
 
72Plymouth said:
Thanks everyone. Will try these things.

What's weird is that when I crank it a ton of times, it doesn't choke or attempt to start. Just keeps turning over.

Then all of the sudden it fires up and runs good. Doesn't want to stall or anything.

If the timing is too retarded can this make it hard to start when cold?
Click to expand...

First question... How often do you drive your car? If it sits for a few days or more the gas can evaporate from the float bowls in the carb. Then when you go to start the car for the first time it needs to be cranked a whole bunch so the mechanical fuel pump can fill the bowls back up. An electric pump will eliminate this problem but it's not that big a deal IMO...

I think you simply have the wrong technique... Have you tried cranking it without touching the gas pedal after pumping it 1-2 times? If it still takes a lot of tries to start after doing that then I'd start looking at other things. Retarded timing can make it harder to start but it's only really noticeable in cold weather, yours is fine anyway. 10* BTDC initial should be perfect as long as it runs without pinging.
 
MOPEkidD-3 said:
First question... How often do you drive your car? If it sits for a few days or more the gas can evaporate from the float bowls in the carb. Then when you go to start the car for the first time it needs to be cranked a whole bunch so the mechanical fuel pump can fill the bowls back up. An electric pump will eliminate this problem but it's not that big a deal IMO...

I think you simply have the wrong technique... Have you tried cranking it without touching the gas pedal after pumping it 1-2 times? If it still takes a lot of tries to start after doing that then I'd start looking at other things. Retarded timing can make it harder to start but it's only really noticeable in cold weather, yours is fine anyway. 10* BTDC initial should be perfect as long as it runs without pinging.
Click to expand...

I drive it on the weekends, so it can sit for about a week. But, it still did this after sitting overnight. I've started this thing good before. Yeah, when it doesn't start, I will usually just let off the gas pedal because I don't want to flood it from pumping it more than a couple times or else I will smell fuel.

Sometimes the oil light will blink on and off while holding it on start too. The motor has an extra quart of oil in it because the dipstick was not reading a while back. I put a quart in, but then found out it was just the dipstick and fixed that.

I asked the shop if I should drain the quart out but they said it was ok to leave it in there since the motor was just rebuilt and they usually need extra.
 
72Plymouth said:
Thanks everyone. Will try these things.

What's weird is that when I crank it a ton of times, it doesn't choke or attempt to start. Just keeps turning over.

Then all of the sudden it fires up and runs good. Doesn't want to stall or anything.

If the timing is too retarded can this make it hard to start when cold?
Click to expand...

Your description of timing sounds about right to me, you don't want it retarded. Sounds to me like it's not getting fuel. I repeat my earlier---remove the filter, look down the throat, and see if it's getting fuel out the accelerator pump.

If it does, try pumping the gas about 3 strokes, on the last, clear to the floor, then up. Crank the engine
 
67Dart273 said:
Your description of timing sounds about right to me, you don't want it retarded. Sounds to me like it's not getting fuel. I repeat my earlier---remove the filter, look down the throat, and see if it's getting fuel out the accelerator pump.

If it does, try pumping the gas about 3 strokes, on the last, clear to the floor, then up. Crank the engine
Click to expand...

I'm gonna check how the carb sprays when it is cold before I start it.
 
This may be grasping at straws, but worth consideration...

Remove the accelerator pump from the carb. How much fuel is in the column? Sometimes the leather on the pump dries up and doesn't make a good seal. This can lead to fuel evaporation, which in turn can make it harder to start the car. I had the same issue with mine, replaced the pump, and the problem was solved.

Forgot to mention, if you're going to test the fuel level under the pump, let the car sit over night first (and make sure the car was running before you park it for the night). Then check the level the next morning. Of course, don't pump the throttle or try and start the car before checking.
 
67Dart273 said:
If you are actually in Vista, that does not even fit the definition of "cold."

What are we working on, /6? 318 2bbl? Six two barrels on a Man-a-fre?

l.jpg


What do you do to start it? Pump the gas pedal a couple times? Floor it once to set the choke?

Have you checked the accelerator pump to see if it's giving a shot of fuel?

I agree, probably a choke problem, maybe whoever put it together got the linkage all bound up and it's not closing?
Click to expand...
quite cut of a real answer
 
67Dart, I must be blind, you mentioned the accelerator pump in your previous post as one possibility. My bad...
 
Thanks for the suggestions.

67Dart - I just let the car sit for about a week and pulled the air cleaner off.

Before I tried to start it, I held open the choke, looked down the carb, gave the throttle a full stroke and saw nothing spray out. It was totally dry in there.

I gave the throttle like 20 more full strokes and nothing came out still. The fuel filter was still full.

Then, even after seeing nothing, I tried to start it with no gas pedal and got nothing for several seconds holding the starter. Then I let it rest a few seconds and tried again and it started quick.

After letting it run and driving around the block, I shut if off, pulled the air cleaner, then gave the throttle a full stroke and saw both sprayers shoot fuel.

Are these supposed to shoot a big stream or a nice mist? The carb was dumping a stream in.
 
When was the last time you rebuilt the carb? How much fuel is in the bowls of the carb after you let it sit? Evaporation will happen, but as long as there is fuel under the accelerator pump, the engine should start with a few pumps before cranking. You should check the accelerator pump for a bad seal.
 
MoparDart68 said:
When was the last time you rebuilt the carb? How much fuel is in the bowls of the carb after you let it sit? Evaporation will happen, but as long as there is fuel under the accelerator pump, the engine should start with a few pumps before cranking. You should check the accelerator pump for a bad seal.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it has ever been rebuilt. I haven't checked the bowls after it sits. I'm not too familiar with carbs but didn't want to open it up until I have new gaskets or have the carb rebuilt.
 
There isn't really a gasket issue when removing the top of the carb to check the bowl levels. I do it all the time. However, I've done a few carb rebuilds in a 5 year span so the gaskets really were not in bad shape. You really won't know what the problem is until you pop that top and take a look.

I would suggest picking up a rebuild kit and keep it on hand. Rebuilding a carb is fairly simple, it only takes about an hour.
 
MoparDart68 said:
There isn't really a gasket issue when removing the top of the carb to check the bowl levels. I do it all the time. However, I've done a few carb rebuilds in a 5 year span so the gaskets really were not in bad shape. You really won't know what the problem is until you pop that top and take a look.

I would suggest picking up a rebuild kit and keep it on hand. Rebuilding a carb is fairly simple, it only takes about an hour.
Click to expand...

Ok thanks. Will pick a kit up and take a look.
 
As far as the fuel spray. Shouldn't it be more like a spray/mist? When I had the engine off, I gave it a throttle stroke and it looked like 2 streams dumping down the carb.
 
That's a very good question. I never really checked my carb to see what the fuel looks like coming out of the jets. My only guess is that once your car is running, it fills up the bowls fully (or whatever the float setting allows); this in turn gives you a much more consistent stream because there is plenty of fuel to work with. The spray/mist could be air getting into the system from a bad seal, or just not enough fuel getting to the jets. I hope somebody with a bit more experience can chime in and give you a more definitive answer. Good luck, I hope you solve your starting issue.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top