Harmonic damper fitment issues la360

[1969moparDART]

I've searched for forms regarding this here and dint find anything that really fit the bill, 1974 LA 360, fresh build, new aluminum timing cover from dorman and new harmonic damper will refer to as "HD" for the sake of my fingers, from dorman as well and tried one from graywerks both are almost exactlythe same, both say external balance and both say they fit a 70+ 360, went to install and before the damper bottoms out i am up against the timing marks on the cover, I've seen some say that depending on brand of HD the cover has to be ground and welded, due to tool access that's not really an option for me, is there something that I am missing? I've been mulling it over for about 6 hours and can't come to any new conclusion, her are some photos of the half installed damper and of the damper. The last 2 screenshot are of another style damper I saw and thought I could try, I just feel the counter weight may contact the timing cover cone where the seal is pressed in, any and all info helps and pictures of your setups are greatly appreciated

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Measure the damper total length through the hole. Set it on a table surface snout down and use a measuring device you have and measure the depth of the hole . Whats the measurement compared to another small block damper. That measurement should be the same as and factory small block. If not, All your belt pulley alignments will be off.

You can also measure the cover the same way. Don't forget. When installing the damper the slinger goes on first before the cover.

Also I have seen cheap summit timing chain lower sprocket have different thicknesses. All these parts should be measured and compared with factory parts . If you need the measurements give a shout out on the site . I am sure someone will answer . If not I can get them from the machine shop parts shelf. With new parts you only get the quality you pay for.

See this quite often . Customers buy a cheap chain set and then spent their savings on a scrap tensioner. Even though the tensioner takes up the slack a junk chain gets slack quickly after use. The cam timing still changes from the stretch on the pull side and changes the performance, Always buy a "True Roller" Roll master or Cloyes chain set . Measure the Crank line bore to Cam tunnel bore. They sell different sets for different spreads .

Even though you bought a 360 damper. Being its after market It should still be balanced with the crank to make sure it is correct. Many after markets are not They are just close enough for a new build to eliminate the high cost of adding heavy metal. Most all externally balanced engine done here get neutral balanced. It gives better choices for Flywheel or torque converter and Dampers

Neutral balanced parts should also rebalanced with the crank. Just info you may use or not. Its always the customers choice. Steve buys a lot of parts and he builds a lot of engines . Parts are not always usable out of the box, SK Machine | Danielsville PA

 

[1969moparDART]

Measure the damper total length through the hole. Set it on a table surface snout down and use a measuring device you have and measure the depth of the hole . Whats the measurement compared to another small block damper. That measurement should be the same as and factory small block. If not, All your belt pulley alignments will be off.

You can also measure the cover the same way. Don't forget. When installing the damper the slinger goes on first before the cover.

Also I have seen cheap summit timing chain lower sprocket have different thicknesses. All these parts should be measured and compared with factory parts . If you need the measurements give a shout out on the site . I am sure someone will answer . If not I can get them from the machine shop parts shelf. With new parts you only get the quality you pay for.

See this quite often . Customers buy a cheap chain set and then spent their savings on a scrap tensioner. Even though the tensioner takes up the slack a junk chain gets slack quickly after use. The cam timing still changes from the stretch on the pull side and changes the performance, Always buy a "True Roller" Roll master or Cloyes chain set . Measure the Crank line bore to Cam tunnel bore. They sell different sets for different spreads .

Even though you bought a 360 damper. Being its after market It should still be balanced with the crank to make sure it is correct. Many after markets are not They are just close enough for a new build to eliminate the high cost of adding heavy metal. Most all externally balanced engine done here get neutral balanced. It gives better choices for Flywheel or torque converter and Dampers

Neutral balanced parts should also rebalanced with the crank. Just info you may use or not. Its always the customers choice. Steve buys a lot of parts and he builds a lot of engines . Parts are not always usable out of the box, SK Machine | Danielsville PA

Unfortunately this motor was bought and built from a .30 over short block, I have no oem or factory parts for it, the timing set is a comp cam double roller, the damper was balanced with crank, flywheel ect, had it all done with it was at the shop getting the block checked and extra .10 bored out to fix cylinder walls, as for the slinger how thick is it? Every small block I've ever replaced timing set in never had one and this one is the same, I talked to my machine shop and the ole fella that owns the place said it wasnt a necessity and if it was already together to leave it be and find a damper that fits but I'm trying to figure out why this one won't, any chance you have a damper ypu could measure for me? Depth, width, diameter

 

[Locomotion]

I have a SFI Pioneer neutral LA balancer and the length of the hole/snout is 2 9/16" measured with a tape.
I've seen that problem of bottoming out on the timing mark protrusion when a big block balancer was mislabeled for an LA application. The BB snout was shorter. But you say you tried 2 different LA balancers already!!!

 

[4spdragtop]

hamonic balancer hitting

 

[4spdragtop]

Another thread
Harmonic Balancer and Timing cover

 

[middleagecrisis]

The oil slinger thickness is minimal and as stated a lot of motors have been put together without them. I think you're seeing a tolerance stack up issue towards the max end of production tolerances on both the harmonic balancer and the Dorman timing cover. Since you've already tried two balancers, I'd see if you can find a stock timing cover and measure how tall it is from the block mating surface to the timing marks. I bet you'll find the Dorman is taller. Where are you in Texas? Sorry, probably asked you before, but forgot. I've got two factory timing covers you can compare visually if you're within driving distance. I can also measure them for you and you can compare against the Dorman unit. This may take a few days, a lot going on in my life at the moment.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Unfortunately this motor was bought and built from a .30 over short block, I have no oem or factory parts for it, the timing set is a comp cam double roller, the damper was balanced with crank, flywheel ect, had it all done with it was at the shop getting the block checked and extra .10 bored out to fix cylinder walls, as for the slinger how thick is it? Every small block I've ever replaced timing set in never had one and this one is the same, I talked to my machine shop and the ole fella that owns the place said it wasnt a necessity and if it was already together to leave it be and find a damper that fits but I'm trying to figure out why this one won't, any chance you have a damper ypu could measure for me? Depth, width, diameter

yes I'll get the measurements. What cover do you have, Early style or late with open seal? And I have slingers . all 340's and early 360's had slingers . Its the engines with the covers with removable front seal I have seen them without. Does you cover have to be off to install the seal? Or can it be installed from the front.

 

[Dartswinger70]

This may be a silly idea but what about shimming it with large washers? press the damper back against the shims? its would be like using slingers as shims but washers instead...

 

[1969moparDART]

yes I'll get the measurements. What cover do you have, Early style or late with open seal? And I have slingers . all 340's and early 360's had slingers . Its the engines with the covers with removable front seal I have seen them without. Does you cover have to be off to install the seal? Or can it be installed from the front.

Mine is installed from the front, and I appreciate your help on the measurements

 

[1969moparDART]

The oil slinger thickness is minimal and as stated a lot of motors have been put together without them. I think you're seeing a tolerance stack up issue towards the max end of production tolerances on both the harmonic balancer and the Dorman timing cover. Since you've already tried two balancers, I'd see if you can find a stock timing cover and measure how tall it is from the block mating surface to the timing marks. I bet you'll find the Dorman is taller. Where are you in Texas? Sorry, probably asked you before, but forgot. I've got two factory timing covers you can compare visually if you're within driving distance. I can also measure them for you and you can compare against the Dorman unit. This may take a few days, a lot going on in my life at the moment.

That's what I'm leaning towards now is the timing cover being the issue, chances of 2 HD being miss labeled and me getting both within a week from 2 different brands lol, and both are exactly the same in every way except color. And yes I am in Texas austin area, no idea when I'd be able to come get measurements tho, im working 7 days a week after all the storms here

 

[1969moparDART]

I have a SFI Pioneer neutral LA balancer and the length of the hole/snout is 2 9/16" measured with a tape.
I've seen that problem of bottoming out on the timing mark protrusion when a big block balancer was mislabeled for an LA application. The BB snout was shorter. But you say you tried 2 different LA balancers already!!!

That's why I originally thought maybe I got a wrong HD, but both of these are long snouts and both exactly the same, they say external balanced but they dont look like what I'm used to for external balance dampers, but this is my first time using aftermarket, I usually have the oem one and still on hood shape, this is honestly my first time building a performance mopar, done loads of Ford engines but those parts are dime a dozen lol, thank you for that measurement, im at work now and as I get info throughout the day I will go over it all when I get home and see where I stand from there, I believe my issue to be the timing cover at this point, just off what I've been told from the responses here

 

[NC Engine Builder]

The height of the cover to the outside the seal area is exactly 2 3/8" on a '72 factory timing cover

 

[1969moparDART]

The height of the cover to the outside the seal area is exactly 2 3/8" on a '72 factory timing cover

View attachment 1716430327

View attachment 1716430328

What about to the top of the timing marks, I will also be comparing that measurement to mine as soon as I'm home, much appreciated

 

[1969moparDART]

Here is a picture I found from before dropping into the car, and before the water pump and seal was on

 

[NC Engine Builder]

This measurement is 1.368 on a used factory damper. Disregard the tape measure, it wasn't accurate enough. I measured it with a dial caliper

 

[NC Engine Builder]

What about to the top of the timing marks, I will also be comparing that measurement to mine as soon as I'm home, much appreciated

The timing mark boss is .100 taller than the seal face

 

[RustyRatRod]

You have the wrong diameter balancer. They are not all the same. You need to measure the old one and match it up.

 

[1969moparDART]

You have the wrong diameter balancer. They are not all the same. You need to measure the old one and match it up.

As stated before I dont have an old one, and every single one i can find that is externally balanced is 7.250 outsidediameter, which is exactly the same as the one I have here

 

[middleagecrisis]

The timing mark boss is .100 taller than the seal face

Thanks for doing this for the OP so fast, saves me rushing home after work to do the same thing. I'm putting together a 360 that also was disassembled before I got it. I have the oil dripper for the T/C, but no slinger. Lots of head scratching going on as I rummage through parts on reassembly.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

The measurements are 2.440 without the slinger and 2.480 with the slinger. slinger is .040 I didn't measure a cover i didn't know what one you had. I am going back down after dinner and get a cover

 

[Dartswinger70]

The crank snout bolt is pulling it back too far?

 

[Oldmanmopar]

The crank snout bolt is pulling it back too far?

The bolt can only pull it back until it bottoms on the bottom sprocket or the slinger if used.

 

[RustyRatRod]

As stated before I dont have an old one, and every single one i can find that is externally balanced is 7.250 outsidediameter, which is exactly the same as the one I have here

You aren't lookin real hard.

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[4eighteener]

I had the same issue a few years ago with a trick flow balancer. A legendary member whose advice I always respected (PBR), suggested these.