have you ever seen this before

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trudysduster

trudysduster

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I thought this was odd the other day when I pulled the intake off. now I am no mechanic by no means and this may be normal but look at the back ports on the driver side and the front ports on the pass. side. looks like they have never been ran. is this normal. if not what could cause this.
 

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Pontiac engine, I know that pontiac used the center 2 ports on the exhaust to provide heat to the manifold under the carb. But i would think that those 2 had the firing order crossed. I dont know though that is only a guess.
 
No its a 455/467 engine. There isn't any rag in the intake. I just had the intake hot tanked last week. Engine ran fine until the carb leaked some gas and had a fire under the hood. The heads are Edelbrock 87 CC D-Port 300cfm heads. Engine was built by Butler Performance down in Tenn. back in 2012. I just have never seen this before.
 
here is some pics of the intake. I have it back together and about ready to fire it up. just was concerned about those 2 ports.
 

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I have been told that if you have a bad head gasket the coolant leaking into the combustion chamber steam cleans the carbon out, and the top of the piston and combustion chamber will look clean like that when you take the head off, in fact you can tell which cylinder has the bad gasket just by pulling the plugs and looking for the clean one.

Is it possible that those two intake runners had coolant leaking into them either through the intake gasket or a flaw in the intake? Is it a "wet" intake?

Idea number two is if the fuel leak that caused the fire also allowed fuel to be drawn into those ports through the carb washing the carbon off, or whatever was used to extinguish the fire got in there?

I also thought, as was mentioned, if those two intake valves were actually functioning - due to a bad cam or improperly installed rocker.
 
Very interesting indeed.

I have seen this, however, Not on Cyls fed from both 'planes' of a dual plane...
(unless My 'ol blind eyes are deceiving Me).

As You are doing a 'Proper' repair & 'Refit' I would run the beast, then remove the plugs
inspect for burn irregularities...

My Humble $.02
 
..............I would also look at the plugs.......if those 2 look like brand new never run u have a major vacuum leak on those 2 cylinders or cracked/warped intake..........kim.....
 
Chryslerfat, that is what I was thinking. seems strange. every piece on this engine is brand new, well was brand new when it was put together in 2012.I have the paperwork here showing the blueprint and assembly build on the engine. Cost was a little over $14000.
d55dave, I don't think it is a bad cam or improper installed rocker but it is possible that something got in there when extinguishing the fire. I mentioned earlier that this was put together by Butler Performance and was ran and put on the dyno. It showed 515 HP. This car has ran great till the fire but from what I have seen looks like coolant in there. I am going to check the plugs on this and hopefully fire it up tonight or tomorrow and see what it runs like.
 
No way is coolant getting in there. There's no coolant very close to the #2 intake port. 2"-3" away. The Pontiac intake is set up same as a small block mopar... there is a coolant crossover area at the front of the manifold, but it's in no way close enough to the intake ports to have coolant leak in. And that wouldn't explain the #7 port at all. No coolant anywhere close to it, the passageway in the head is blocked and not even under the manifold.

I guess its too late to check, but were the #2 and #7 ports in the intake clean & shiny too?
 
I think you had fire get to all but those two. must be a duel plane manifold. Gas went to all but those two when you had your fire.
 
not too late to check 69 340 GTS, I took pics of the intake before I sent it off. They are a bit cleaner than the others. here are some pics of the intake when I pulled it before I sent it off.
It looks like those 2 ports got cleaned also. The heads and intake were new when installed by Butler. According to the paperwork both the heads and intake was ported. You think something got in there when they put the fire out. He told me that he put it out with a fire extinguisher. He had an air cleaner on it so I don't know. What would cause just those 2 ports to get it. same ports on both heads.
 

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I gues it kinda makes sense in that the 2 cylinders are inline in the firing order. cylinders 7 and 2. if they were in the right position, both of the valves would be closed therefore not ingesting any fire caused by the burning fuel. I guess it depends how fast the engine was shut off after the fire occured. Im surprised that the guy that had the car was that lucky that the car did not burn to the ground. this is all a guess but I did have a similar thing happen to me while I was driving a friends car. Double pumper holley on a 67 charger with a 440. backfired at a light taking off and the engine stalled. fuel kept coming and fire started under hood. Lucky a dump truck driver nearby handed me his fire extinguisher after he stopped his truck.
 
Make that girl run rich and let it idle then pull the plugs and see if they all match :)
 
I pulled the # 2 & 7 plugs and they looked just like the others, not clean at all. I think I am going to have to change them for him before I let it go.
 
omahamoparguy said:
I guess it kinda makes sense in that the 2 cylinders are inline in the firing order. cylinders 7 and 2. if they were in the right position, both of the valves would be closed therefore not ingesting any fire caused by the burning fuel. I guess it depends how fast the engine was shut off after the fire occurred.
Click to expand...

That's the best theory yet.
 
I fired this goat up. after turning the dist. cap around and getting the firing order correct it ran fine except for the carb. When I rap on it , it wants to lay down on me. Has a dead spot in it. also when I shut it off it wants to keep running a little and blows a little fuel out the top of the carb. I think it needs some fine tuning and I don't know **** about a Holley. Inside of the carb has a lot of fuel on it.
 
Typically they "run-on" because the throttle blades are open too wide at idle and it is pulling fuel through the main venturi instead of just the idle circuit. The throttle blades are probably open too wide because there is not enough initial timing, so the throttle has to be open further in order to idle. It also sounds like you need to set the float levels.

Contrary to what some people will have you believe Holley's are actually very simple to tune, and stay in tune just fine.

Start with finding out what the initial and total timing is and set the floats.
 
Holley carbs are one of the easiest to work on.
I would put a rebuild kit in it.
Holley's website will walk you thru the whole process.
If you don't feel comfortable doing it, contact rusty rat rod, he does a nice job rebuilding them.
 
the timing is set at 36*. That is what Butler Performance set this at when they built it and I have not touched it. the carb was just rebuilt by supposedly one of the best Holley carb guys in the area. That was one of the first things I had done after the fire, and RRR wouldn't give me the time of day. So.......I have some work to do here. I called the guy who rebuilt the carb last night and will probably have him look at it. I think it has too big of a carb on there. I think an 850 double pumper is too much. according to the calculator, a 467 cube engine at 5800 RPM street use calls for about 666 CFM, for what that is worth.
 
trudysduster said:
the timing is set at 36*. That is what Butler Performance set this at when they built it and I have not touched it. the carb was just rebuilt by supposedly one of the best Holley carb guys in the area. That was one of the first things I had done after the fire, and RRR wouldn't give me the time of day. So.......I have some work to do here. I called the guy who rebuilt the carb last night and will probably have him look at it. I think it has too big of a carb on there. I think an 850 double pumper is too much. according to the calculator, a 467 cube engine at 5800 RPM street use calls for about 666 CFM, for what that is worth.
Click to expand...

Too big? Not at all. 340s came with 800 cfm carbs right from Ma Mopar! The size of the carb isn't your problem.
 
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