Header Leak??

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DartVadar

DartVadar

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Recently I've been fighting my motor with some odd noises that it makes when its cold. Its a 360 with dougs headers. A little while ago I had a fairly loud "tick tick tick tick" noise coming from one side, this happened after the car sat for a day or so. I thought it was a lifter tick but everything seemed great after I took the valve covers off. I suspected an exhaust leak, so I tightened up the headers and it went away. I took a big screwdriver and put the end on the valve covers and only heard the regular valve-train noise, and I could hear the noise when I placed it on the header pipe.

Now today I started the car up to hear a ticking noise, but not nearly as loud as before, the same kinda noise though. Almost like a ticking with a kinda wooshing noise. I went and tightened the headers bolts and that helped a bit, the noise went completely away after about 5 minutes. I used a Mr Gasket header gasket with some copper RTV on both sides, there is about 600 miles on the motor and I've just recently been having this leak.

What can I do to fix this so I don't have any more leaks? I keep thinking there is something really wrong only to discover a stupid header leak. Should I put in a new gasket? a better one possibly?
 
There is more than one kind of Mr Gasket headergaskets,wish one do you use?

My personal opinion is, use the Mrgasket UltraSeal gaskets and nothing else,if they leak something else is wrong. no need for any extra sealer or double gaskets or any of that kind of bandaiding.
 
Those^^^ or a set of Remflex or Percy header gaskets are a good choice.

What headers do you have, cheapos or good ones. If you have decent headers the flange "should" be nice and flat, it's always good to check with a straight edge prior to installation though.

I use Stage 8 locking header bolts so they can't loosen up. I didn't want them backing out and blowing gaskets out.
 
They were just the ones that came with an engine gasket kit that I had, I can't imagine that they are terribly good ones, probably the lower end ones. Definitely not ultra seal ones. And the only reason that I put the copper RTV on was because that's what the instructions said with the headers.

I have a set of dougs headers, so pretty good headers, the flange seemed nice and straight when I installed them, and I used some ARP header bolts, I don't know if they are locking or not.

When I broke the cam in I never checked how tight they were, but heard no leak (doesn't mean it wasn't there) and it only started leaking when I really started to get on it, so the headers were getting nice and hot, and I assume when they cooled off they loosened up, because when I tightened them some were pretty loose.
 
Just to make sure though, is it normal for some header leaks to go away as the engine warms up? What would signify a lifter tic? And if it was a lifter tic would it go away as It warmed up? New motor so every little noise worries me...
 
DartVadar said:
Just to make sure though, is it normal for some header leaks to go away as the engine warms up? What would signify a lifter tic? And if it was a lifter tic would it go away as It warmed up? New motor so every little noise worries me...
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We know, lol.

Yes, a small leak can go away with it warming up, the metal expands applying more pressure on the seal.

Yes, a lifter tic could go away as well when it pumps up.

I will say this, if you are running a Comp cam, some of them have a very fast ramp and sometimes people experience what seems to be lifter tick when actually it's the valves snapping closed. Mine does it a little, drove me nuts for a while until I researched it.

Here's what I would suggest, grab a piece of hose about 3 foot long or so, let the engine go cold. Start it up and use the hose as a stethoscope to listen around the header flanges, one end on your ear and move the other end around the flange, if it's leaking you will probably find it. I'm betting it might be since you said it quieted down after you tightened the bolts.
 
Bad Sport said:
We know, lol.

Yes, a small leak can go away with it warming up, the metal expands applying more pressure on the seal.

Yes, a lifter tic could go away as well when it pumps up.

I will say this, if you are running a Comp cam, some of them have a very fast ramp and sometimes people experience what seems to be lifter tick when actually it's the valves snapping closed. Mine does it a little, drove me nuts for a while until I researched it.

Here's what I would suggest, grab a piece of hose about 3 foot long or so, let the engine go cold. Start it up and use the hose as a stethoscope to listen around the header flanges, one end on your ear and move the other end around the flange, if it's leaking you will probably find it. I'm betting it might be since you said it quieted down after you tightened the bolts.
Click to expand...

Yup I have a comp XE cam in it, and that was a noise that drove me crazy too!

And this morning I grabbed a big screw driver and put my ear to it on all the valve covers, consistent sewing machine noise everywhere, then I put it on the header and could hear the whooshing noise in addition to the click/tick. And it slowly went away. Can probably rule out lifter tic then (never really thought it was). I got a new gasket, so I'll see what happens. I guess it's just anoyying more than anything.
 
DartVadar said:
They were just the ones that came with an engine gasket kit that I had, I can't imagine that they are terribly good ones, probably the lower end ones. Definitely not ultra seal ones. And the only reason that I put the copper RTV on was because that's what the instructions said with the headers.

I have a set of dougs headers, so pretty good headers, the flange seemed nice and straight when I installed them, and I used some ARP header bolts, I don't know if they are locking or not.

When I broke the cam in I never checked how tight they were, but heard no leak (doesn't mean it wasn't there) and it only started leaking when I really started to get on it, so the headers were getting nice and hot, and I assume when they cooled off they loosened up, because when I tightened them some were pretty loose.
Click to expand...


Dougs headers are among the good ones and if dougs says you should use some RTV then sure follow it they know there stuff,the only bad thing i ever experienced with the UltraSeal gaskets are that they sometimes becomes very attached to the parts they are supposed to just seal and maybe that will be less of a problem following dougs instructions.

My coment about not using anything but the gasket is based on seeing to many people bandaiding warped flanges by using a stack of gaskets and all sorts of weird sealers.


Another possbility is that headergaskets can develop a leak if you have plenty of power and a very restrictive exhaust but thats a rare problem.

sometimes you just need to retourque the headerbolts after a while and sometimes they seem to stay put with no isues almost forewer.
 
1Fast340 said:
Dougs headers are among the good ones and if dougs says you should use some RTV then sure follow it they know there stuff,the only bad thing i ever experienced with the UltraSeal gaskets are that they sometimes becomes very attached to the parts they are supposed to just seal and maybe that will be less of a problem following dougs instructions.

My coment about not using anything but the gasket is based on seeing to many people bandaiding warped flanges by using a stack of gaskets and all sorts of weird sealers.


Another possbility is that headergaskets can develop a leak if you have plenty of power and a very restrictive exhaust but thats a rare problem.

sometimes you just need to retourque the headerbolts after a while and sometimes they seem to stay put with no isues almost forewer.
Click to expand...

I will follow the dougs instructions again and hopefully I have no leaks. And nope, not going to band aid it like that! definitely not the right or lasting way to do it.

I bought a gasket and I will put it in tonight using the light coat of RTV like dougs says to use, and ill give it lots of time to cure. This morning I started the car to see it it leaked and I didn't get too much leaking, but I will just replace the gasket anyways, use a better one. Should fix the problem...hopefully.
 
I have been fighting a header leak on the number one cylinder since I put the headers on the car the first time 5 years ago. At first the double copper helped but eventually it started again. I rebuilt the motor last winter and added Eddie heads and the leak is still there. I even cut the flanges hoping that would help. Currently I have 2 copper gaskets and I cut part of a mr. Gasket cork gasket and put it on the number once cylinder. The leak is still there.

My next investment is a set of tti headers and yours should be too lol
 
One trick that we used to do in the "old days" for the paper/cardboard type of header gaskets is to soak them in warm water for a while before installing to let them swell up a little. Then install them and they will seal better.
 
Did you torque the bolts to spec, or just tighten them by hand?

Try torquing them to spec if you just did it by hand.

(I know a couple of bolts cannot be reached with a torque wrench. What I do then is to torque one of the easy ones that I can get the torque wrench on, and then go back and see how much force it takes to turn them just a little bit, then go to the hard to reach one and give it the same force of pull... It's like trying to calibrate your hand...)
 
Oddly enough its my number 1 cylinder as well, when I first noticed the leak I could see there was a separation, and the bolts were almost to the point I could turn them by hand.

And I never actually torqued them, I just tightened them by hand with a wrench, so some may be tighter than others. I will torque the ones I can down after I replace the gasket, hopefully that helps provide even clamping force and I don't get any more leaks!
 
header bolts need to be retightened several times after installation of the headers...in fact...you need to check them occasionally

or they well burn out the gasket ...
 
70aarcuda said:
header bolts need to be retightened several times after installation of the headers...in fact...you need to check them occasionally

or they well burn out the gasket ...
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Probably my issue then, I tightened them once at about 400 miles when they originally began leaking...probably hurt my gasket a bit, I guess I have to be more diligent with keeping them tight.
 
I check mine at least once a month. Snug as a bug usually. I did tighten mine to spec also. My valves looked good on my old heads so I guess the leak isn't to bad for now.
 
70aarcuda said:
header bolts need to be retightened several times after installation of the headers...in fact...you need to check them occasionally

or they well burn out the gasket ...
Click to expand...


Very true.


We tested the exhaust gaskets on a crossover pipe. If the bolts weren't tight, then the gasket would "burn up" and just leave a "skeleton" of the original gasket. If they were tightened properly, they were fine. You have to keep exhaust gaskets tight, or they will burn up and be no good.

The gasket "fried" with only 10 hours on the dyno.... :banghead:


You may want to check your gaskets to make sure that they are not already toast....
 
Well I guess I didn't do much to prevent a leak in the first place. I got some new gaskets and I will replace them tonight, and I will torque them.

So from what I understand headers commonly leak?
 
DartVadar said:
Well I guess I didn't do much to prevent a leak in the first place. I got some new gaskets and I will replace them tonight, and I will torque them.

So from what I understand headers commonly leak?
Click to expand...

snug your intake manifold bolts too while you are at it...LOL
 
I have Dougs headers on my Duster and I had all kinds of header leaks untill I installed Mr Gasket MLS and have not had a lead since. Been 5-6 years ago. Got dead soft copper on collector flanges and I need to reseal them, again.
 
Retourque your bolts when hot. Everything changes when hot. Wear gloves. Leather or oven ones.
 
Ill give everything a snug while I'm at it. And I've only tightened them when it was cold, could be a reason that they keep leaking on occasion.

I would think that the dougs headers would seal really well, I guess you just need the right gasket.
 
On my 360, I have the TTis, Aluminum heads and the original TTi supplied header gaskets. They are all 14 years old and 125000miles. During the 1st 4 years of the Formula Ss life, the headers and gaskets were transfered onto a 318 for winter use and back onto the 360 in spring. I cant remember ever retorqueing them in the last 10 years. The nickel plated TTIs started leaking though at the 10 year mark; at the joint where the pipes connect to the collector.At the top of course where they collect water. So far I have been able to repair them, but the joint line is getting pretty thin,now. One day I may weld on new collectors. Or maybe a slip fit...
 
Alway's a good idea to snugg the header bolt's now and again after she's cooled down. They tend to loosen with the heat & cool down of an engine, obviously depending on the type of headers and gaskets, the cheaper the header, you'll be doomed with leaks.
 
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