Somewhere on here there’s a thread that shows the head pipe on the drivers side, even on the 67+ cars the corner you have to make from those Hedman’s to get around the center link is ridiculous.
Headers for a A body
- Thread starter Dan the man
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Somewhere on here there’s a thread that shows the head pipe on the drivers side, even on the 67+ cars the corner you have to make from those Hedman’s to get around the center link is ridiculous.
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
I used to use a spark plug socket with a hex on its top and an open end wrench back when I ran the cheap headers decades back. Also ran a 90 degree spark plug boot on rear two drivers side spark plugs. Never had spark plug wires burning issues. So the headers that have a tube that run over the rear two driver's side spark plugs can be made to work without issue
Professor Fate
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Very true. But we've all been known to resort to some ridiculous things when we have to.
Even the factory 340 manifolds require a somewhat severe bend to them.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
See post 3. They aren’t better than manifolds. Just junk. They look good on paper but in the real world they just stink.
Very true. But we've all been known to resort to some ridiculous things when we have to.
Even the factory 340 manifolds require a somewhat severe bend to them.
Oh I agree, gotta do what you've gotta do.
I wish I could find the thread, it's more that a custom head pipe has to be made and it's such a tight fit around the steering that it requires some skill to fabricate, especially if you want it to perform with any reasonable expectation of being better than a set of manifolds.
Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
Yup, that's exactly the one I was thinking of! That one's on an early A, so really tight on that one.
I found a couple more, these are 67+. Not quite as extreme, but still pretty tight
'72 Scamp-not really a "restoration"
And this one...
Hedman tight tubes
Bottom line for me is anything you gain on the install of the shorty headers you lose in fabricating/installing the head pipes. Might be cheaper in outright cost if you're doing it yourself, but only if you don't consider what your time is worth.
Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
The nice thing is @Rapid Robert 's '63 Hobby Stocker may not require hooking up to a full exhaust (?) and can get by with just a slight bend in the dump tube... otherwise I think I'd seriously consider pie-slicing and reclocking the collector outlet.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
That looks like Ray Charles and Rube Goldberg had a baby and that’s it. W THE F???
mygasser
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we'll hold you to that, lol.
Dan the man
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Rapid Robert
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Professor fate, good comprehensive info & the pics were great. thank you, much appreciated! RR
Inertia
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"From what experience that I have had with putting headers on a car it seems that mopars are the most difficult because of their small engine bays and steering linkage."
Not by a long shot, the 65ish mustang/fords with their linkage style power steering, or 429 big block ferds.
Mopars are a picnic compared to some .
Not by a long shot, the 65ish mustang/fords with their linkage style power steering, or 429 big block ferds.
Mopars are a picnic compared to some .
junkyardhero
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can confirm on the challenges of headers in an early narrow body. anything but tti/dougs full length and you'll need to be sharp in the tubing and fab department. when i built the headers for my dart i dumped the collector down the back by the firewall. while better than the mid-block location of shorties, that presented a whole 'nother list of problems what with the 4spd and all.
anything 67 and up is a breeze comparatively speaking, and in some applications even the lo-buck summit headers aren't too awful of an install.
anything 67 and up is a breeze comparatively speaking, and in some applications even the lo-buck summit headers aren't too awful of an install.
mygasser
Well-Known Member
dan the man said..... ''From what experience that I have had with putting headers on a car it seems that mopars are the most difficult because of their small engine bays and steering linkage''.
nah! try hooker super comp's on a 66 fairlane with an fe big block
neil.
nah! try hooker super comp's on a 66 fairlane with an fe big block
neil.
Papaduster
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Yes there’s Shorty Headers but I was told the shortys don’t do much just like factory exhaust manifolds n Long tube make more power. Call the Girl at TTI exhaust she had a lot of good info on Shorty vs Long tube headers She told me what fit my 71 Duster n I got to talk to the Engineer too. I’m running a Borgensen PS gear box thats smaller n he says the headers will fit better cause there’s more clearance. Also using a small Dakota starter and because I’m running a Silver Sport 4 speed Auto which routes the trans lines down passenger side there’s also more clearance Happy Moparing
33IMP
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I had a 428 cj in a 69 Ranchero (factory). I couldn't get a hand between the exhaust manifold and the shock tower. I sold it before I had to put plugs in it.
Newbomb Turk
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lol. Yep, those things were a real mother bear to work on. That’s when I knew I wasn’t working on junk like that to make my house payment.
junkyardhero
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that's what hole saws were invented for...
junkyardhero
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i know this is a straight hijack, but what are your overall impressions of that trans? install, fit, use, etc?
Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
Those all comprise a "system" and need to match your desired end use. It really starts with the exhaust ports and manifolds or headers. Diameter, length and design are important. Long tube or shorties and 4 into 1 or tri y provide different tuning. Mazda for example, when designing their Skyactiv G engines found that a tri Y header contributed to lower cylinder temperatures at intake valve closing by about 60° and about 160° at the time of ignition. This contributes to detonation resistance. With conventional log manifolds the high pressure exhaust from a just opening exhaust valve gets pushed into the just closing exhaust of another cylinder. This causes the heating of the intake.
Tri Y separate the exhaust pulses contributing to improved low and midrange torque. 4 into 1 are long enough that the high pressure is not able to dilute the other cylinder. V8 exhaust works somewhat like a V6 with one big block cylinder on each bank causing the higher pressure pulse, which is what causes the distinctive V8 sound. Separating the two cylinders on each side that create that high pressure pulse is what tri Y headers do.
For proper tuning the diameter and length need to match cylinder volumn and expected RPM use.
When the exhaust valve opens there is about 70 to 120 PSI left in the cylinder that rushes at supersonic velocity out the barely open exhaust valve. This exhaust velocity combined with the weight is high energy. It roars down the pipe until it gets to an area of essentially atmospheric pressure at the collector. This positive pressure is then turned into a negative pressure that roars back up the pipe. When tuned properly about the 3rd or 4th time it gets to the exhaust valve, the valve should be almost closed and creates a negative pressure in the cylinder at the time the intake valve opens and the piston is still rising in the bore. This aids in initiating intake flow into the cylinder.
On the intake side we get pressure waves as the high velocity intake hits the closed intake valve. Remember that air has mass and moving air has energy, inertia. When it hits the closed or almost closed intake valve it builds pressure and sends a high pressure wave back up.the intake port. When it gets to the intake plenum the high pressure is converted to low pressure and travels back down the port. You do not want that low pressure arriving at the intake valve just as it begins to open. This causes reversion, sucking exhaust out the intake and fuel standoff over the carb.
For an air filter you are best with a closed filter housing with one or two hoses that bring in cool air from in front of the radiator support.
New vehicles that have those goofy "cylinders" off the side of the intake pipe are employing helmholz generators. These create high pressure pulses going into the plenum to aid the high pressure pulses going back to the intake valve just as it opens. For this a V8 functions like two 3 cylinders.
Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
The Sunbeam Tiger engine installation was very tight, even with the small SBF 260/289 engines. Most of these cars have holes drilled via hole saws through the inner fenders to facilitate plug changes.
390 GT and 428 Mustangs had three exhaust bolts per port, due to the tight fit between the shock towers. Full size cars had just two bolts, one above and one below because there was enough room.
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Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
You are trying to arrange going to look.at a car, weather permiting, and worrying about headers. Quit trying to push chain. Go look at and inspect the vehicle. Once you drive it a bit you may find maintenance items that need attention first. Down the road after driving it for a while, decide what you want to change.
Dale Davies
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For this I would get a copy of
Scientific Design of Exhaust and Intake Systems. Written by Philip H Smith and John C Morrison. Fair technical. One header manufacturer read it and marketed a header using a described technique which relocated on primary tube per side into the collector instead of up stream of it. This modification may work for fitment and considering 1 and 3 fire 270° apart should not harm power, but not aid it.
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I wouldn't get to worked up about it and a engine fairly forgiving, cam is generally where you can go overly wrong, heads you'd have to put something crazy on it before you overly F it up.
Don't mix efficiency with streetability, the highest ve and tq per cid engines are generally straight up max effort race engines.
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