Help Me Settle A Dispute With Dad

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/6 Matt

30 Degrees Crooked
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Sorry this is non-mopar related.

Dad has an '85 Chevy Silverado 2WD Long Bed truck (which I would like to have some day [GASP!]) and it came stock with a 305 and a 4-speed auto. I think if I remember what the O'Reallys? guy told us, it has a 42RE or something with a 42 in it. Anyways, it now has a GM Goodwrench 350 Crate Motor in it (not sure which model) and it has the 4 Barrel Quadrajet (I wanted to say Thermoquad).

The truck suddenly one morning would hardly start and wouldn't stay running. Dad said he thought he had moisture under the dizzy cap and I agreed that it might. Well we took the cap off, dry. Put it back on, same issue. Dad starts looking at his wires (which btw are routed under the exhaust manifolds up against the block :banghead:) and sees that some had the insulation rubbed off on from touching and vibrating on the firewall and the manifolds. So dad went ahead and replaced the wires (grant it, when dad bought this truck a year ago, he did NOTHING but drive it. No oil change, tuneup, tranny service, NOTHING) and after replacing the wires and fighting with foggy, sleepy minds to get the right wires on the right plugs and quintuple checking, it ran better but still the same issue.

At this point, the truck cranks, and runs real rough and peters out in ~10 seconds unless you keep your foot on the gas.

While screwing with the wires and occasionally test starting the truck, dad observes "Wow! These manifolds get super hot really fast!" Now at one point, for some reason, dad holds the choke closed after I start it and VOILA! It stays running. BUT its idling very high, like 1800 rpm I would guess and its missfiring so bad that it sounds like gunshots out the exhaust in the back.

Dad's solution: Get new plugs (like that's really the issue) and I humored him simply because I new the truck needed a tuneup and we are at this point in time, halfway done with the tuneup between new plugs and wires.

No change in the truck.

Dad's suspicion/diagnosis: Burnt valve(s). His basis: I think the valves in his head are burnt, no I haven't said that to him, I'd probably get a slap upside my head if I did.

My suspicion/diagnosis: Its a Chevy, just kidding I think its A MASSIVE vaccum leak causing a very lean condition. My basis: 1. The truck only runs with the choke shut, still idles high and missfires like crazy with the choke closed completely. B. The exhaust manifolds are getting too hot too fast. Lastly, the truck was running hot a few weeks ago and he discovered that it was low on coolant, after adding coolant the truck still fluctuated between 205-230 F (normal operating temp is 210 F which I feel like Chevy pushes it with those kind of temps, but whatever, OM knows best.)

Granted, I'm only 19 and only have 8 years experience. Dad's 56 and has 35+ years of experience. Mom overheard him state burnt valves and went pale because a year and a half ago, he blew up the motor in his Dakota and we still haven't swapped the motor from my brother's donor truck into his truck. A year ago my sister's van crapped out. While swapping the engines, we discovered upon pulling the pan that the number 1 or 3 piston disintegrated and bent a rod, but that's another story. A month ago, her boyfriend's Neon had it's water pump **** on the Interstate which took out the timing belt and probably bent every valve on the head (god I love zero-tolerance motors!) and now dad's truck is decomissioned.

THE BOTTOM LINE: I right now have a crippling car, transporting two people back and forth to work, a '92 4WD Dakota almost finished after a front seal replacement on the trans, a Plymouth minivan waiting to have it's brand new motor dropped in, a Neon halfway to having it's head pulled off (guess what I'm gonna do after I get off here) a Chevy that won't run, another 92 Dakota waiting on a motor swap, and 89 Dodge van that I wouldn't even register to drive cause it runs so bad (I'm at a loss on that one) A 95 Dakot donor that's waiting for it's motor to be pulled, tranny dropped and rear end stolen before we scrap the damn thing AND top it all off, I got a '65 Falcon that I started body work on almost 4 years ago and got the front clip sanded, the interior stripped and the rot cut out the floorboards before taking a 3 year hiatis due to lack of time. I can't have another project car going on here and mom's gonna have a second stroke and her parkinsons is gonna shake her head off her neck if we have another massive project/repair go underway on our daily drivers.
 
Sorry for the long post guys, "THE BOTTOM LINE" section is almost a rant more than anything, you don't have to read. Just tell me if me or dad's right, or if we're both right. Or wrong.
 
Timing very retarded. Timing chain jumped a tooth. How many miles on the engine? Blown head gasket. Did you pull plugs and do a compresson test?
 
" he did NOTHING but drive it"

Very first things I'd do is look at oil leakage (is the engine worth running as is?) and oil consumption

Then do a compression/ leakdown/ cylinder balance test. Does not sound as if it runs good enough to to the last test.

If compression/ leakdown doesn't look to bad, go through the ignition from stem to stern. (that's the back end, the stem is that funny pointy thing holding the riggin' out in front)

Then yank the carb and clean it out. Check that the EGR valve is not leaking past, stuck open, etc. Consider pulling both valve covers and look for badly worn cam lobes, IE valves not opening or not opening very far.

Oh, one last thing, LOL. It's never a good idea to disagree with your Dad at your age. Even if he is wrong!!! LOL
 
Matt maybe you would get better response if it was not such a long read. Basically the it runs fine with the choke on tells me vacuum leak or like Cliff said possible fuel filter.
 
Matt maybe you would get better response if it was not such a long read. Basically the it runs fine with the choke on tells me vacuum leak or like Cliff said possible fuel filter.

I will admit my head hurt about 1/4 through that!!
 
Know how to check for a vacuum leak? Get a can of starter fluid and spray around the area you think it's leaking, motor will rev if you find it. Pretty easy and cheap.


One last thing, and no disrespect, it's none of my bee's wax, but I can't help but be frank: Cash in those projects and get a late 80's early 90's import if you want something dependable and get's good mileage, all I ever see you post is another story of how your kicking yourself in the ***, automotively speaking. It's tough when your broke, I know, but you've got to rise above it man.

Enjoy the day. :D
 
Check for vacuum leaks like PoisonDart sez, just be careful around the alternator with the flamable gasses. I would suspect that the intake manifold is not the right one. You can make the older ones work on the newer engines by "wallering" out the holes but in my experience that is a crap shoot. If it's like my 87 Suburban it was a TBI originally.

OH, and check the fuel pressure, a bad fuel pump will do that too.
 
THE BOTTOM LINE: I right now have a crippling car, transporting two people back and forth to work, a '92 4WD Dakota almost finished after a front seal replacement on the trans, a Plymouth minivan waiting to have it's brand new motor dropped in, a Neon halfway to having it's head pulled off (guess what I'm gonna do after I get off here) a Chevy that won't run, another 92 Dakota waiting on a motor swap, and 89 Dodge van that I wouldn't even register to drive cause it runs so bad (I'm at a loss on that one) A 95 Dakot donor that's waiting for it's motor to be pulled, tranny dropped and rear end stolen before we scrap the damn thing AND top it all off, I got a '65 Falcon that I started body work on almost 4 years ago and got the front clip sanded, the interior stripped and the rot cut out the floorboards before taking a 3 year hiatis due to lack of time. I can't have another project car going on here and mom's gonna have a second stroke and her parkinsons is gonna shake her head off her neck if we have another massive project/repair go underway on our daily drivers.

Figure out what is wrong with the Chevrolet. After you have checked the other items that have been suggested check this out. Is the computer still hooked up on the Chevrolet? I am thinking 85 had one. If it is take the plug off the side of the distributor cap and run a jumper wire on the terminals of the cap and see if it will run right. If it does get another plug, wire the ends together with a wing nut and plug it in.


Then finish the quickest project to do and move on to the next one. Sounds like you are jumping from one project to another without finishing the first on so nothing is getting finished and now you have come to the point of diaster.
 
Vacuum leak. Possibly brake booster or something of the like.
That's what I'm thinking, havent checked the brake booster but that would make sense.

Timing very retarded. Timing chain jumped a tooth. How many miles on the engine? Blown head gasket. Did you pull plugs and do a compresson test?
Could be the timing, I had at one point suggested checking static timing by confirming TDC with a hangar and pulling the cap off to see whats what.

" he did NOTHING but drive it"

Very first things I'd do is look at oil leakage (is the engine worth running as is?) and oil consumption

Then do a compression/ leakdown/ cylinder balance test. Does not sound as if it runs good enough to to the last test.

If compression/ leakdown doesn't look to bad, go through the ignition from stem to stern. (that's the back end, the stem is that funny pointy thing holding the riggin' out in front)

Then yank the carb and clean it out. Check that the EGR valve is not leaking past, stuck open, etc. Consider pulling both valve covers and look for badly worn cam lobes, IE valves not opening or not opening very far.

Oh, one last thing, LOL. It's never a good idea to disagree with your Dad at your age. Even if he is wrong!!! LOL
We can probably do a compression test just by checking cranking psi. The rocker arm covers need to come off anyways cause they leak oil like his '75 used to. As for the rest of your post, do you recommend running these diagnostics in the order you say or can we wait on the carb?

And one last thing, I can politely disagree! Even if in the back of my mind it's brash and opinionated.

Did any one check the fuel filter?
We haven't but that makes so much sense, I wish you could have saw me roll my eyes at the fact that we haven't considered that.

Matt maybe you would get better response if it was not such a long read. Basically the it runs fine with the choke on tells me vacuum leak or like Cliff said possible fuel filter.
I do apologize for the long read, this was almost a rant at the same time. I'm still getting great responses though and good input.

I will admit my head hurt about 1/4 through that!!
Once again, sorry guys! :eek:ops:

Know how to check for a vacuum leak? Get a can of starter fluid and spray around the area you think it's leaking, motor will rev if you find it. Pretty easy and cheap.


One last thing, and no disrespect, it's none of my bee's wax, but I can't help but be frank: Cash in those projects and get a late 80's early 90's import if you want something dependable and get's good mileage, all I ever see you post is another story of how your kicking yourself in the ***, automotively speaking. It's tough when your broke, I know, but you've got to rise above it man.

Enjoy the day. :D
Yeah that was one of my ideas, only I'm a fan of soapy water cause it's non flammable and when the motor dies, you found your leak.

And no disrespect taken! It is very much your buisiness when I post it here isn't it? You guys aren't just a go-to for my questions, or a reference. I don't refer to the fine people on this site as the FABO Family for no reason! And I understand what you're saying as far as kicking myself in the *** cause I'm just the mule performing the work for other's agendas (dad, my sister, my brother blazzee blah)

Check for vacuum leaks like PoisonDart sez, just be careful around the alternator with the flamable gasses. I would suspect that the intake manifold is not the right one. You can make the older ones work on the newer engines by "wallering" out the holes but in my experience that is a crap shoot. If it's like my 87 Suburban it was a TBI originally.

OH, and check the fuel pressure, a bad fuel pump will do that too.
I'm not entirely sure if it is an older manifold, the 305 might have been carbed cause my brother had an '84 VERY similar to this one and it had a 305 with the same Rochester Quadrajet, but I'll keep that in the back of my mind. As for fuel pressure, I'll keep that in mind as well cause that's another blatantly obvious one (check my response to the fuel filter statement.)

Figure out what is wrong with the Chevrolet. After you have checked the other items that have been suggested check this out. Is the computer still hooked up on the Chevrolet? I am thinking 85 had one. If it is take the plug off the side of the distributor cap and run a jumper wire on the terminals of the cap and see if it will run right. If it does get another plug, wire the ends together with a wing nut and plug it in.


Then finish the quickest project to do and move on to the next one. Sounds like you are jumping from one project to another without finishing the first on so nothing is getting finished and now you have come to the point of diaster.
There is no computer, I don't think there ever was but I'll research and get back on that one.

Well I would love to finish the quickest project but there isn't one I don't think haha! The project list makes more sense if you know the reasoning behind it.
WARNING, LONG EXPLANATION ENSUES! The Falcon started first, life's just been too busy and I've given up for now but it's still depressing driving by the shop and watching it return to the ground.

My brother's truck came next. We swapped front clips from the donor truck (his had front end damage.)

Then my sister's van took a crap. Dissasembly started on it cause I had just got laid off and had the time to start. I got like a few hours away from the motor being ready to come out and the next day my brother decided we were gonna start the front seal on his truck.

A month later, we were "finished" and the truck got pushed out the carport so I could push my car in and swap the rearend after mine blew. My car was more important at that point in time, just as my brother's truck superseded the van in importance. The truck sits now with no shifter linkages done up, a hole in a tranny cooling line, no driveshafts or exhaust and it still needs headlights and bezels but that's my brother's problem, I'm done with that project.

Then the van got pushed in the carport, the motors out and gone and the new one is on the stand waiting to go in. I'm waiting on dad to do something he needs to do (don't ask me, I don't know) to the timing cover before the motor can go in.

Then the neon motor did it's ****, all the sudden dad want's me to pull the head off the neon and see if the valves are bent to hell despite my arguement that I got too many projects going and already have not a bit of memory of how to put them back together (whatever, it's his decision not mine) but the neon is more important anyways cause its another DD that we depend upon. UPDATE the head's off and 14/16 valves are bent. The pistons are looking great considering the high speed collision that occured in the combustion chamber and the cylinder walls are beautiful for 160K miles. Can still see the crosshatch!

Then the truck started pulling stupid **** and it was very important because that was another DD and dad's truck on top of that.

If you've hung with me through all the junk, I've typed first of all thank you! Second of all does it make more sense now why the projects are going the way they are? We're going in order of importance.

i couldnt get through the long read. my eyes are rollin
I really couldn't blame you! Just sit back and chill with a beer.
 
There is no computer, I don't think there ever was but I'll research and get back on that one.

Hollander Interchange shows a computer for 1985 and 1986 Chevrolet 1/2 ton pick ups with a 305. The OEM number is 1226865. As I said it is easily bypassed by tieing the two wires together. The computer controls the HEI distributor.
 
Interesting......... ok well if he works on it tommorrow, Ill peer around and see if I can find any obvious places under the hood where a computer should have been.

Wait, its under the glovebox isn't it? I feel like my brother replaced one on the '84 he had years ago.
 
Interesting......... ok well if he works on it tommorrow, Ill peer around and see if I can find any obvious places under the hood where a computer should have been.

Wait, its under the glovebox isn't it? I feel like my brother replaced one on the '84 he had years ago.

If I recall correctly it is on the right side inside the cab near the glove box.

UPDATE: You do remember correctly.
 
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