Help Please......No Spark

[ramcharger]

What truly concerns me is the combination of wiring harnesses, both used and new.

 

[6pk2goDemon]

What truly concerns me is the combination of wiring harnesses, both used and new.

Seems like this is the problem...... Components are good, but there is a wiring issue in the harness somewhere that is confusing to say the least, but we got some super help today from a member here:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=51095

 

[charger70]

Seems like this is the problem...... Components are good, but there is a wiring issue in the harness somewhere that is confusing to say the least, but we got some super help today from a member here:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=51095

Thanks for the complement Cheryl!


Well, we determined that the wiring is the most likely the culprit.
Electrical isnt my strong suit either but eventually I think we will find it.
:read2:
"eventually"

We were able to get the 340 to run by bypassing the Demon harness and using a spare MP electronic harness that I have.
We still had to jump directly from the batt to the coil to get enough voltage.
The demon harness will only allow about 3.8 volts max to the coil, and I think only about 8.2 before the ballast resister.
We used a 72 service manual with schematics, but apparently the Demon is an early enough production that it has a 71 harness in it. Matches my 71 Duster.
Blew some time trying to trace some wires before figuring that out.#-o

The new Evans engine harness is apparently correct for this application, it is a stock harness setup for a 5 pin ECU and 4 wire ballast resister.
Bob and Cheryl would like to run a 4pin Orange or a Chrome box, so will need to figure that out too.
That part seemed to checkout ok, so we'll focus on the underdash and new ignition switch next.

We will tackle it again on Monday with a 71 schematic.](*,)

 

[charger70]

PS.
Bob and Cheryl run their own alignment business in Tempe, AZ.
I think they said they have 20+ years experience.
When I mentioned that I've driven my Duster for about 4 years since being aligned, Cheryl put Bob to work on it.

The steering wheel is now perfectly straight and it no longer pulls to the right like it used to.
EXCELLENT!!!
Great Job Bob!!:cheers::cheers:

And for any one who might be concerned about having their wheels scratched from gauges, they use "No Mar" attachments.
I've already recommended them to some of the Mopar faithful that I know.
On monday I'm gonna bring them my 98 Sebring for a touch up too.:-D

 

[fstfish66]

are you using a factory electronic set up and wiring .. or a mopar performance add on kit ?? if you want to convert to the moper formance add on,,im sure some oen has a diagram of how to wire it,,,maybe thats where the problem is,,,

 

[6pk2goDemon]

are you using a factory electronic set up and wiring .. or a mopar performance add on kit ?? if you want to convert to the moper formance add on,,im sure some oen has a diagram of how to wire it,,,maybe thats where the problem is,,,

The chrome box is a 4 pin style from Mopar with a dual ballast. The wiring harness is a 5 pin that was purchased from Evans.

Is this what you are saying the problem may be??

If so, yes a wiring diagram would be mucho appreciated. :read2:

 

[charger70]

are you using a factory electronic set up and wiring .. or a mopar performance add on kit ?? if you want to convert to the moper formance add on,,im sure some oen has a diagram of how to wire it,,,maybe thats where the problem is,,,

Fastfish66,
I've wanted to tell you thats a cool avatar you've got now.

We tried it both ways, first with the chrome box before realizing it was 4pin.
I brought along a stock 5pin box so switched to it and a known good 4wire ballast next. (no spark)
We did use the MP perf conversion 4pin orange box and wiring harness (bypassing stock harness) to get it to start.
I really think we are losing the batt voltage somewhere in the underdash harness. At least thats what I want to track down next.

 

[Petzschler]

i probably missed it but did you replace the coil?
10+ volts at the +side of the coil during crank and run means you wiring is ok.
You are using the MP balasist resistor (2 prong, not the 4 prong), right?
Air Gap set to .008"?
if yes to all, it will fire. if not, the problem is in one of the three things i mentioned.
now i'm off to rip around in my suzuki dr350.. in -30, & 2ft of snow.
cheers.

 

[charger70]

i probably missed it but did you replace the coil?
10+ volts at the +side of the coil during crank and run means you wiring is ok.
You are using the MP balasist resistor (2 prong, not the 4 prong), right?
Air Gap set to .008"?
if yes to all, it will fire. if not, the problem is in one of the three things i mentioned.
now i'm off to rip around in my suzuki dr350.. in -30, & 2ft of snow.
cheers.

Yep, ya missed it:-D, the coil is good.
thru the stock harness there is about 3.8V to the coil, so we are gonna trace that down Monday.
Thanks for pitching an idea, all will be appreciated.

 

[moper]

Interesting... You need the voltage readings as mentionned. Sounds like either a bad pickup, bad pickup wiring, or low voltage on "start" and "run".

 

[waggin]

here try these,mopar performance "oval track modifications manual"the one with the four terminal ballast resistor and pick which ballast to use from the chart on the following page.in some instances the wiring in fig 3-126 will not work,it will start while cranking but won't run in the run position,note the jumper wire from #1 and #4 on the ballast resistor,this remedies that situation bout only with the four terminal ballast resistor.for instance in a race car with a toggle switch for the ignition and a pushbutton for the starter,if this does not work I will go disect my racecar and put the wiring diagram from it up for you.

 

[6pk2goDemon]

Interesting... You need the voltage readings as mentionned. Sounds like either a bad pickup, bad pickup wiring, or low voltage on "start" and "run".

Thx for your help moper. We have gathered some more info for testing again tomorrow. All components have tested good at this point.....

Car will start using an external harness (bypassing the new harness from Evans) ...and we also have to supply 12 volts directly to the pos side of the coil from the battery w/ a jumper wire.

Very confusing.....trying hard to figure. As I mentioned earlier, wiring is a challenge to say the least.

 

[6pk2goDemon]

Waggin.........:study:........:wink:......You're a doll.......

To be continued. :thumbup:

 

[moper]

An ohm meter is your friend when you start troubleshooting the harness.

 

[6pk2goDemon]

:banghead: Just a quick update for all who have been helping & watching this fiasco unfold.....:violent1:

Another 6 hours or so yesterday brainstorming....changing components & testing. We even hooked up another underdash harness externally. Car would still not start unless we used a different ECU harness ......

I was again thinking Car-B-Que was the only solution left....LOL

While waiting for the 2nd new ignition harness to be delivered.....charger70 :goodman: who by the way was again spending his day trying to help figure this thing out.........decided to poke around in the connecting bulk head plug that attaches to the ECU module. Maybe some corrosion or something was causing a poor connection. :scratch: Within seconds of poking into the 5 pin plug end, he sighed loudly and dropped the harness.

Gosh dang thing only had 4 pins......very :angry7: Although all 5 wires were present from the outside and would test + when probing the connections, the 5th wire was there, but no end to touch the ECU pin.

Keep in mind this is a brand new harness purchased from "Evans Wiring". I called Bill Evans and told him what we had found after many hours of frustration over the last several weeks. I asked him to please expedite another harness to us ASAP. No apology, no sorry, deadpan voice...."might be able to get to it in a couple days"

I have read many good things here on FABO re Evans Wiring, hence that's why I ordered from him.

We shall see.......To be continued.

Very Special Thanks to FABO member charger70 for his undying efforts and patience in bringing this wiring nightmare to a conclusion.

To all of you who have helped and offered advice......many thanks again. :toothy1:

 

[Longgone]

Is the 5 pin harness for a 4 pole resistor? I have the 5 pin harness on my 68 but I`m only using 4 wires. This is with a 2 pole resistor though.

 

[charger70]

AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
I HATE ELECTRICAL PROBLEMS!!!!

Come on, Everybody say it with me!!

AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
I HATE ELECTRICAL PROBLEMS!!!!

Good Job everyone,
Now I feel like we are in this together.
Thanks.


!!!!!The Offending Unit!!!!!
Not the actual part,
this pic is of my good Mopar Perf connector.

 

[charger70]

Is the 5 pin harness for a 4 pole resistor? I have the 5 pin harness on my 68 but I`m only using 4 wires. This is with a 2 pole resistor though.

Hey Longone,
I feel better now that I let that out.

Evans uses the premolded MP connector to build his harnesses. He will build to your specs if you are using a 4 or 5 pin.
The MP harness all come with 5 wires.
When using an orange or chrome 4pin ECU, and 2 wire ballast,
they say to clip off (or leave disconnected) the green wire with red tracer.

Back to 6pk's issue.
There was no spark during cranking, but when letting go of the switch there would be one little surge like it wanted to start. :scratch:
When using a spark plug and the #1 wire at TDC, it would spark when turning the ignition switch on and again when turning ignition off.:dontknow:

What we finally found was the brass sleeve missing in the female receptical leading for the gray w/blk tracer wire (to distributer--therefore no spark control).
In the pic above you can see the brass sleeve in the holes.

The end of the wire was exposed deep in the hole so when I checked continuity the connection tested good, (my meter must have touched the wire end), but when plugged in, the wire didnt touch the ECU pin.
Man, I wish we would have taken some pictures of the snakes nest we had.:snakeman:
We tried 3 different ECU's (4 and 5 pin), 3 ballast resisters,(4 and 5 pin), 2 distributors, 2 engine harnesses, 2 underdash harnesses, 2 ignition switches, and a bunch of jumper wires.
All in a variety of combinations.

Again,
AAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHH
I'm glad that part is over! 8)

 

[ramcharger]

Good job charger70! Glad you could be there to help.

 

[Longgone]

The good thing is now you`re barking up the right tree. From here it`s all down hill. Good job!

 

[6pk2goDemon]

Good job charger70! Glad you could be there to help.

You're not kidding ramcharger. Absolutely, positively could not have gotten this far without help from him. :wink:

AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
I HATE ELECTRICAL PROBLEMS!!!!

Come on, Everybody say it with me!!

AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
I HATE ELECTRICAL PROBLEMS!!!!

Good Job everyone,
Now I feel like we are in this together.
Thanks.
quote]


Really loud.......I HATE ELECTRICAL PROBLEMS

Here is a pic of the actual ECU plug in received on the Evans harness............

 

[terry]

sounds great that you found the issue. i was afraid that this thread was gonna be longer than the mopar babes tread. lol
terry

 

[demon seed]

Wow, good catch guys, you realize of course that now you're the resident experts on this site and that "all" electrical questions or problems will be your responsibility to solve. :toothy10::toothy10::toothy10: Congradulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Terry

 

[fstfish66]

glad to hear it,, main thing is,,you didnt burn it to the ground,,,and you figured it out,.,,,,GOOOD JOB,,

thanks for the comment on my avartar

 

[charger70]

Wow, good catch guys, you realize of course that now you're the resident experts on this site and that "all" electrical questions or problems will be your responsibility to solve. :toothy10::toothy10::toothy10: Congradulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Terry

I think NOT!!
I think I burned out all my cognative and reasoning brain cells on this one.
I can barely remember my name and where I live.:toothy10: