HELP with bodywork

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mshred

mshred

The Green Manalishi
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Hey guys,

Im in the stages right now of getting my scamp ready for paint and want to get some feedback on what im doing, so please let me know if im doing ok...currently the car has been blocked with 80 grit and has bondo where nescessary (blocked as well)...after i smooth everything out with the 80 grit i was going to block everything with 120.....Then i was going to buy some duplicolour high build primer in spray bombs and paint the whole car, then block with 220, 320, then 400 wet....Does this sound okay? The car has not been stripped to baremetal since the factory paint is in great shape, so wil that affect my process at all? After i primer the car and block it, if i expose high spots again do i use putty or filler? When i use 400 wet to smooth out everything, will the water seep through the bondo and ruin the job? I know this is alot guys, but im really coming down to the wire here and want to make sure im doing everything right.

Thanks in advance for any advice guys
Matthew
 
Where to start? So far so good with the 80 grit. Spray bombs aren't great. If you want to do it right I would seal all the work with epoxy primer than shoot a 2K high build primer on that, block it out with 220, then 320. It's the low spots you need filler for, the high spots may need to be tapped down. Depending on how straight the car is you may need to shoot more high build primer and block again, maybe many times. Final wet sand with 600 - 800 before shooting base coat. Do NOT wet sand filler (bondo)
 
Are the spray bombs going to ruin my paint job? or are they just not the best thing to use? Any more suggestions/ advice from you guys would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Again

Matthew
 
Make sure to use guide coat and be prepared to find a lot of stuff. The scamp I am currently working on I have 89 hours into and just finished wet sanding the tub (600) after blocking and shooting in k38 twice. 89 hours of body work and paint prep. I wouldn't even consider using fizz cans, they just don't work. Also Robs advice is solid with sealing it using a epoxy primer first.
 
HEy Guys this is going to be a budget paint job....i dont really have access to a spray gun to spray epoxy primer....will the spray cans work, or are they garbage....I understand there not the best (what do you want for 8 bucks each), but i would like to know if they will do the trick.....that and any other help/ criticism on what im doing would be great
thanks
 
the amount of cans youll need you can buy a cheap campbell hausfield utility gun as you are gonna block it anyway. I wouldnt shoot color coat with it but for primer it chould work ok
 
YEa im not shooting colour coat with spray bombs, just the high build primer so that i can block.... the rest of the coatings ( sealer, paint, clearcoat) the shop is doing....i just need to do as much as i can myself so i dont have to pay for it to be done...anymore advice guys i would really appreciate

thanks again
 
Most spray bombs are cheap lacquer based products and don't have an activator/hardener so it's a crappy foundation. To make it worse there isn't a heck of a lot of product in a can so in the end you will have spent more than if you bought the good stuff. There are dsicount brands out there, Omni, Kirker, etc. It isn't easy to do this without equipment and space to start with, let alone cheaply if you want a decent, durable job.
 
I'm not an expert, just a novice too. So here is my two cents, Please, please do youself a favor, buy a fairly good gun cheap (Harborfreight) on the internet ($15.00). As far as the compressor, rent one borrow one. You only need 45psi to push the paint thru a HVLP gun, and you won't be sorry with the results. The guns does such a better job than any can will.

As Rob said above, to do a whole car, your looking at least 12 cans for primer, and probably double that for two coats of base. If you shoot a clear coat, another 12. Now even if you find .99 Cent cans your still talking half a Benjamin for all that paint (haven't seen those prices in awhile). The problem with spray cans also is that the pressure does not remain constaint. It starts out ok, but as the can empties, the pressure drops, and your don't get the same spray pattern or consistency of mixture, which tends to leave you with an uneven coat. Also, have you ever tried to push down on the spray nossel of 50 cans, I did it with 12 cans of primer and thought my index finger was going to fall off.

To do it right, you'll need Two quarts of epoxy primer (this will be set you back about $35.00). A cheap base coat to shoot (don't laugh now), Rustoleum ($6.99 a Quart at Home Depot, this will thin to almost 2 1/2 Quarts of spray). Thin her down with Mineral Spirits or Laquer thinner (5.00 a quart). Then seal it with a clear coat.

Just my thoughts.... Good luck with your project.
 
Keep in mind though most epoxy primes are non sandable, He would still need some sort of sandable primer before the base.
 
Hey guys, i no that spraying some epoxy primer would be the better way to go, but i really just cant go that option as i dont have any place to do it....the bottom line is that i have to work with what i have....Im only going to spray the high build primer on the car just so that i can block it and see where im at....once thats all done the body guy is going to spray a coat of sealer over....the painter actually even told me to do it this way (buying spray bomb primer for blocking), and since im on a tight budget and can only do what im able to do, i have to go this route....Im sure some of you guys have gone this route before, so how did it turn out for those of you who did? This is my first time doing bodywork, and its on a daily driver, so its not going to be perfect and i know that already, but im still trying to do as good a job as i can within the limits set on me

As for the other parts of my plan, what steps do you guys recommend i take in sandpaper grit? Is 80, 120 then primer then blocking with 220, 320, 400 wet enough? This is what im a little more concerned about since everyone seems to have their own little preferences...Anyways guys thanks for the advice so far and please if you have any more lend it over

Thanks again
Matthew
 
Been there ;) Good luck, let us know how your doing, would love to the see the finished product when your done. Sounds like you'll do just fine, and it'll look great :)

Good luck
 
On the sanding, I like rough in all the little spots of mud with a cheese grater (remud the cheese greater marks) then 80, sand the entire car with 80 DA (to feather all edges) and then give it a quick block with (spray style) guide coat, also in 80. Then I prime it, (2coats) guide coat with the rub on style and block it all with 180 then prime again (more rub on guide coat) then 180 then prime (you guessed it more rub on guide coat) then if it needs it 180 again and prime then prime again (more rub on guide coat) and wet 600. I am using k38, though with a fizz can I think you have the right idea. Good luck and leats see some pics. Also you might want a self etching primer for the metal spots.
 
Thanks alot guys for all the advice, really good to know I am somewhat on the right track here....for my sanding, is it fine to finish with 120 before priming, then blocking that with 220, 320, and then 400 wet?
 
It would be with a proper 2K high build primer but I can't say if the spray bomb stuff will fill 120 scratches as effectively. I spray 2K over 80 grit with no problems and then block with 220, 320 and final sand with 600 wet but I don't usually shoot a sealer so if you do 400 may be ok to finish with. You'll have to ask your painter what he wants it to be final sanded with. In fact get everything in writing and I mean everything, what products he will use, what he expects you to do, all of it. If you end up with problems you'll be happy you got it all in writing.
 
400 wet, is like 320 dry. 320 with cheap lacquer rattle cans = very bad shrink back and sanding scratches that will be visible from the next state over. You'd have to spray it, sand it, and then let it sit in the sun for a month, and then do a second coat, sand it, and then let it sit in the sun for a month, etc..... and then you better hope that whatever topcoat you have put over it doesn't have an adverse reaction to the cheap lacquer and lift it off in sheets.
 
Then what grit should i sand with after applying the rattle can primer? you say that 320 is the same as 400 wet, but you dont say if the 220 i plan to use after primer is okay, or what you would recommend instead of 400 wet....Thats the stuff i need help with....if you know please share as i would really appreciate it

Thanks
Matthew
 
You do want to step up in grit as you go, 80-150-220-320/400-600. I like to finish with 600 on a DA, otherwise you can end up with straight line sanding scratches. Wet sanding is problematic in my opinion, sometimes you end up with the dried up ooze in all the wrong places and it is much harder to get rid of than dry dust and an air nozzle.
 
I think you have your wet/dry concept mixed rednesss, wet is less abrasive than dry as the water acts as a lubricant.

You should try a test panel and see how well the scratches are filled, you can and probably will need to spray more primer anyway.
 
K guys now im a little confused lol....i thought wet was better too, but rednesss says its not, and Rob says it is....which is it really? I always thought that after 320 doing 400 wet would be ideal since it would help fill all the scratches...any further clarification would help guys

Thanks so much for all the help so far
Matthew
 
I would wait and save up to buy the proper materials. Its cheaper to do it the right way then to do it twice.

You want to spray the epoxy primer over the body work and old paint to seal it off. Then the 2K to block the car out with. You will never get enough primer on the car using cans.

I bought a lot of supplies from www.autocolorlibrary.com including tools, primer and paint.
 
i dont understand what is so bad about the rattle cans....from what you guys are saying, you make it sound as though im going to totally ruin everything...im starting to get worried now....will the rattle cans work and hold up, or will it ruin the paint and not have it stick? i need to know because that will change everything for me.....like i said i cant spray the primer, its just not an option
 
As I mentioned before, most spray bombs have no activator/hardener = soft and not durable. Whatever is under your paint is your foundation, it's like building your house on a poor foundation, it will be the weakest link and if it fails everything on top will as well. Send OldVart a PM, he's a pro and could probably give you a real world experience with that and could also clarify your sand paper question. As I mentioned before and others agreed, you will need a lot of cans of that crap and will have paid more than if you use the proper 2K. In the end you're better off to get the shop to do the entire job then try and save a few bucks doing it yourself with poor products, either that or wait until you are in a position to spray proper primer. Sorry to be a downer but it is what it is.
 
Rob said:
I think you have your wet/dry concept mixed rednesss, wet is less abrasive than dry as the water acts as a lubricant.

You should try a test panel and see how well the scratches are filled, you can and probably will need to spray more primer anyway.
Click to expand...

Actually the water cleans out the "dust" from the areas between the aluminum oxide that comprises what makes sand paper, sand paper, and doesn't allow the paper to be clogged with material, soft talc, that will make it so that the grit doesn't contact the surface, but just push around the sanding dust. After about 2 seconds of sanding look at the paper, you'll see it is full of material, talc, etc.... now rub your hand over it and compare to a clean sheet. Wet sanding always keeps the grit "open" and thus more abrasive.
 
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