Help with Temp, Gas, Oil Alt gauges FREE VIDEO INCLUDED!

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RedFish said:
So your harness connector for ignition switch leaves a switch terminal unused. I would ignore that. Just for the sake of saying, or FYI .... The aftermarket produces a replacement for later model column mounted switches and attaches a wire to every terminal routed to that switches remote connector. So go to a body with that switch and you have 1 wire more, one wire too many, and in the wrong positions too. This added wire makes a headache when installing that switch where the extra wire wasn't. I'll bet that if your model switch had its on short harness to a remote connector, the aftermarket would put a wire on every terminal. Anyway... Focus on the problem at hand and the hacked wires. The large red and black should have been tied directly together. Why someone thought hiding a pizzy little blade fuse behind the inst' panel was a good idea? Damned if I know.
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Okay, so my other question is, the current IVR is soldered on and seemed to be connected to bypassed power? Or Do I have to solder that white wire into my solid state IVR4? If you can see in photo #17, a piece of shoddy soldering that has disconnected , my mechanic told me to get a piece of copper tape and solder that together to make the connection complete again.
 
Yes sir, that burned copper trace is the 12 volt supply to center leg of the limiter. Compare that frail copper ribbon to a wire. It never was meant to carry a substantial amount of current. It did burn open in a fault condition just as a fuse would. Where the root fault was? We don't know. What is the best method of repair? Someone attempted over repair with that length of white wire. Nearly anything bridged across the gap with a bit of solder would have worked.
 
RedFish said:
Yes sir, that burned copper trace is the 12 volt supply to center leg of the limiter. Compare that frail copper ribbon to a wire. It never was meant to carry a substantial amount of current. It did burn open in a fault condition just as a fuse would. Where the root fault was? We don't know. What is the best method of repair? Someone attempted over repair with that length of white wire. Nearly anything bridged across the gap with a bit of solder would have worked.
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Just so I am clear. I can cut the current white wire off the old mechanical limiter. Cover it with a plastic cap then... #2 Solder a new piece of copper tape on the circuit board and then plug in the new electronic solid state IVR4?
 
66DartSedan said:
Just so I am clear. I can cut the current white wire off the old mechanical limiter. Cover it with a plastic cap then... #2 Solder a new piece of copper tape on the circuit board and then plug in the new electronic solid state IVR4?
Click to expand...
Assuming that white wire has its other end properly placed, solder to the new regulator if you want.
If your not going to use it, completely remove it. Don't just tape its end and leave it dangling. If you do bridge the burn out, consider something rigid like a single strand of copper wire about 3/4 inch long. Like a little strand cut from a battery cable for example. Solder its ends in the larger open field areas. My goal is avoid the other copper trace seen just north of the burn out which is ground. We don't need to work in close quarters and create a short. A gob of solder there could do that.
 
RedFish said:
Assuming that white wire has its other end properly placed, solder to the new regulator if you want.
If your not going to use it, completely remove it. Don't just tape its end and leave it dangling. If you do bridge the burn out, consider something rigid like a single strand of copper wire about 3/4 inch long. Like a little strand cut from a battery cable for example. Solder its ends in the larger open field areas. My goal is avoid the other copper trace seen just north of the burn out which is ground. We don't need to work in close quarters and create a short. A gob of solder there could do that.
Click to expand...
So a quick photoshop mock up it will look like this, with the white wire being soldered to the ignition peg in the IVR4?

soldercirsuit.jpg
 
yeah but you don't need both. If the copper trace is patched that added white wire is redundant. And like I stated before... if that added wire repair suits you, solder it to the new IVR and forget patching the copper trace. Some inst' panels ( e-body for example ) don't have circuit boards. Actual wires were routed to everything.
I wont retract everything I've suggested thus far because there are so many different ways to approach a problem, different ways to patch a crack as it were.
I do tend to study, weigh the facts, before deciding what I think is the best patch.
So first the facts... This piece of white wire that someone added. Please confirm for me what color factory wire it is attached to. My background knowledge suggests blue with white tracer. Regardless its color, I know this power comes directly from your ignition switch. There is no fuse between the ignition switch and the inst' voltage limiter other than the spot you have burned open. At this point I will mention that later model builds do get this power through a fuse.
You have a inline fuse holder pictured there that really should be removed.
The part stores have a big yellow butt connector from Dorman that includes heat shrinkable sleeves. One of those and a good crimp tool is all you need to propely connect the big red to black.
You could use the inline fuse to bridge the burned open trace. If this was my car, my chore, I would add enough wire length to have this fuse holder in a more favorable/accessible location and I would label the fuse holder, IVR-5A.
Honestly... I would clip the blue with white tracer out of that harness connector and attach my wire and fuse holder wire to wire. This wire doesn't supply anything more than the limiter on the panel. We'll bypass that connector and contact pin too.
I would also solder the other end to the center springy female terminal on the circuit board rather than soldering onto my brand new regulator or on the copper trace. Why? There is a downside to soldering long wires on top of the copper trace. If the wire should get pulled, it would peel the trace right of the board. After I soldered a piece of wire onto the female clip where the regulator plugs in I would cut it somewhere to have a male/female disconnect. This so the panel does unplug for removal just like it did before I started.
So there... I've over thunk this thing as if it were my own problem to solve. It has kept my mind off of other things though so thanks for that.
 
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RedFish said:
yeah but you don't need both. If the copper trace is patched that added white wire is redundant. And like I stated before... if that added wire repair suits you, solder it to the new IVR and forget patching the copper trace. Some inst' panels ( e-body for example ) don't have circuit boards. Actual wires were routed to everything.
I wont retract everything I've suggested thus far because there are so many different ways to approach a problem, different ways to patch a crack as it were.
I do tend to study, weigh the facts, before deciding what I think is the best patch.
So first the facts... This piece of white wire that someone added. Please confirm for me what color factory wire it is attached to. My background knowledge suggests blue with white tracer. Regardless its color, I know this power comes directly from your ignition switch. There is no fuse between the ignition switch and the inst' voltage limiter other than the spot you have burned open. At this point I will mention that later model builds do get this power through a fuse.
You have a inline fuse holder pictured there that really should be removed.
The part stores have a big yellow butt connector from Dorman that includes heat shrinkable sleeves. One of those and a good crimp tool is all you need to propely connect the big red to black.
You could use the inline fuse to bridge the burned open trace. If this was my car, my chore, I would add enough wire length to have this fuse holder in a more favorable/accessible location and I would label the fuse holder, IVR-5A.
Honestly... I would clip the blue with white tracer out of that harness connector and attach my wire and fuse holder wire to wire. This wire doesn't supply anything more than the limiter on the panel. We'll bypass that connector and contact pin too.
I would also solder the other end to the center springy female terminal on the circuit board rather than soldering onto my brand new regulator or on the copper trace. Why? There is a downside to soldering long wires on top of the copper trace. If the wire should get pulled, it would peel the trace right of the board. After I soldered a piece of wire onto the female clip where the regulator plugs in I would cut it somewhere to have a male/female disconnect. This so the panel does unplug for removal just like it did before I started.
So there... I've over thunk this thing as if it were my own problem to solve. It has kept my mind off of other things though so thanks for that.
Click to expand...

The white wire is spliced and taped to the black wire.

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OK , Blue with white tracer doesn't have to be correct for all models. If that is the wire that goes on the pin where the copper trace routes to,,, all good.
 
RedFish said:
OK , Blue with white tracer doesn't have to be correct for all models. If that is the wire that goes on the pin where the copper trace routes to,,, all good.
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Okay after too long...I finally got a new circuit board shipped all the way from Canada to the good ol US. Took my Dash off which was considerably easier and faster this time and replaced the voltage limiter with the electronic one you see and the circuit board with a brand new one. I put it back together in the dash and.....nothing different. Oil light works, dash lights work, wipers work, but gas, temp and alt gauge are dead. What should my next check be?

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Next step would be good back to post #2.
The work you have done is changing parts, and making and repairing connections, but no indication that you have used a voltmeter to troubleshoot circuit connections. The circuit starts with 12V supply to regulator, then output to gauge, then to sender and return at ground. Any open connection results in no worky.
So check 12V at regulator input, check if the regulator has output, check it making it to gauge and out, and sender returning to ground. The sender ground at tank needs a metal clip that jumpers the rubber hose and connects tank sender tube to fuel line that is grounded via all the straps to body. The temperature sender body grounds at thread, Teflon tape can insulate. Senders also fail open, so do Ohm check.
 
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Dang if I know. The amp gauge should work regardless. It dont need a ground at the panel. Even if the 2 wires were attached reversed polarity a good gauge would still work just backward. The 2 inline board connectors weren't keyed more than pin location/spacing. They can be attached wrong. If illumination bulbs work both sides of the panel, we know the orange wires are where they should be and we know the panel is chassis grounded. From that can we assume all of the wires are on the proper pins? The temp sender wire should be purple. The fuel sender wire should be dark blue BUT... Going back to my earlier comment, What should have been blue with white tracer from ignition switch to inst' regulator was found to be black in your connector. It has been butchered then taped up and we are assuming its good.
In the ​
beginning of this thread the fuel gauge was responding just very badly. Now it doesn't respond at all?
I can't fix it from here. If I was there I would have factory diagrams and check the right color wires are in the right ports and on the right pins. I would prove 12 volts into the regulator, 5volts to the 2 thermal gauges, and then start checking the sender side of those. I know I have power going through the amp gauge, otherwise NOTHING inside the car would have 12 volts. So I would save that one for last.
 
RedFish said:
Dang if I know. The amp gauge should work regardless. It dont need a ground at the panel. Even if the 2 wires were attached reversed polarity a good gauge would still work just backward. The 2 inline board connectors weren't keyed more than pin location/spacing. They can be attached wrong. If illumination bulbs work both sides of the panel, we know the orange wires are where they should be and we know the panel is chassis grounded. From that can we assume all of the wires are on the proper pins? The temp sender wire should be purple. The fuel sender wire should be dark blue BUT... Going back to my earlier comment, What should have been blue with white tracer from ignition switch to inst' regulator was found to be black in your connector. It has been butchered then taped up and we are assuming its good.
In the ​
beginning of this thread the fuel gauge was responding just very badly. Now it doesn't respond at all?
I can't fix it from here. If I was there I would have factory diagrams and check the right color wires are in the right ports and on the right pins. I would prove 12 volts into the regulator, 5volts to the 2 thermal gauges, and then start checking the sender side of those. I know I have power going through the amp gauge, otherwise NOTHING inside the car would have 12 volts. So I would save that one for last.
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Thatd be perfect if I could find a factory diagram showing the correct colors and ports. Ill check online I guess.
 
KitCarlson said:
Next step would be good back to post #2.
The work you have done is changing parts, and making and repairing connections, but no indication that you have used a voltmeter to troubleshoot circuit connections. The circuit starts with 12V supply to regulator, then output to gauge, then to sender and return at ground. Any open connection results in no worky.
So check 12V at regulator input, check if the regulator has output, check it making it to gauge and out, and sender returning to ground. The sender ground at tank needs a metal clip that jumpers the rubber hose and connects tank sender tube to fuel line that is grounded via all the straps to body. The temperature sender body grounds at thread, Teflon tape can insulate. Senders also fail open, so do Ohm check.
Click to expand...
How exactly do I check with my multi-meter? All i know who to check is battery, by placing multi on pos+ and neg- terminals and seeing 12.65 and running 14.6 .....But Im not sure how to check my regulator input output on my firewall or the senders....
 
RedFish said:
Dang if I know. The amp gauge should work regardless. It dont need a ground at the panel. Even if the 2 wires were attached reversed polarity a good gauge would still work just backward. The 2 inline board connectors weren't keyed more than pin location/spacing. They can be attached wrong. If illumination bulbs work both sides of the panel, we know the orange wires are where they should be and we know the panel is chassis grounded. From that can we assume all of the wires are on the proper pins? The temp sender wire should be purple. The fuel sender wire should be dark blue BUT... Going back to my earlier comment, What should have been blue with white tracer from ignition switch to inst' regulator was found to be black in your connector. It has been butchered then taped up and we are assuming its good.
In the ​
beginning of this thread the fuel gauge was responding just very badly. Now it doesn't respond at all?
I can't fix it from here. If I was there I would have factory diagrams and check the right color wires are in the right ports and on the right pins. I would prove 12 volts into the regulator, 5volts to the 2 thermal gauges, and then start checking the sender side of those. I know I have power going through the amp gauge, otherwise NOTHING inside the car would have 12 volts. So I would save that one for last.
Click to expand...
Ok, I hooked up my multimeter to the battery positive and negative it read 12.65 with the car off 14 .50 with the car running I then took the ground negative off and proceeded to put that on to the voltage regulator and these is the reading, I moved around and put it on a few different spots and against the firewall itself it read higher I proceeded to check the sending unit itself for temperature and inside of the wire of the temperature sending wire as well

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In post #35, I was suggesting you use meter to check gauge circuit. That involves the instrument voltage regulator IVR, not alternator regulator. The meter circuit is simple, a series loop as explained earlier and show in stickypad drawing. Measurements are typically referenced to ground, that is where the black lead goes. If you have a long meter leads, connect the black lead to battery (-) ground, and use the red lead, and meter set to DC volts. The test points are show at a tap connection with circle, the place to put meter red lead. The grounds shown as triangles with points down. With key set to ACC, this should power gauge circuit. First reading read IVR input terminal, good if close to battery voltage. Then measure the ground pint at IVR, it should be near zero ... same with all other grounds. If you read voltage > 0.2V on a ground, then engine to chassis strap is open, or connection bad. Next check output of IVR, with OEM part the voltage will pulse, electronic devices may regulate to ~ 5V, others not sure but there will likely be voltage or pulsing. The test point at sender needs to be done with sender in circuit, otherwise the circuit is open.
It will be useful to retake measurements. I should have marked test points with numbers, then you could show voltages for those using black lead at battery (-).
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I had typed inst" regulator in one place and simpy regulator in a another. I guess I should have typed IVR in both? Anyway, The system voltage regulator is not relevant.
We know you had a copper trace burned on the original board and we know that was the 12 volt supply to the original IVR. We know there was another wire tapped into that black wire and we know its now removed. What I don't know is.. was the white wire a tap out and tap in? Is your IVR getting 12 volts from that black wire?
You said you now have a solid state IVR. Is that the RTE brand? Does it have little LEDs on it? If so, and from what I've read about those, there should be one LED continuously flashing when the thing is on/working properly. I've never dealt with RTE regulators so all I know is what I've read.
Regardless what IVR it is, you need ground, then 12 volts in at switch on, and 5 volts out to one post of each thermal gauge.
 
66DartSedan said:
Ok, I hooked up my multimeter to the battery positive and negative it read 12.65 with the car off 14 .50 with the car running I then took the ground negative off and proceeded to put that on to the voltage regulator and these is the reading, I moved around and put it on a few different spots and against the firewall itself it read higher I proceeded to check the sending unit itself for temperature and inside of the wire of the temperature sending wire as well

View attachment 1715149253

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View attachment 1715149262

View attachment 1715149264

View attachment 1715149266

View attachment 1715149267
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RedFish said:
I had typed inst" regulator in one place and simpy regulator in a another. I guess I should have typed IVR in both? Anyway, The system voltage regulator is not relevant.
We know you had a copper trace burned on the original board and we know that was the 12 volt supply to the original IVR. We know there was another wire tapped into that black wire and we know its now removed. What I don't know is.. was the white wire a tap out and tap in? Is your IVR getting 12 volts from that black wire?
You said you now have a solid state IVR. Is that the RTE brand? Does it have little LEDs on it? If so, and from what I've read about those, there should be one LED continuously flashing when the thing is on/working properly. I've never dealt with RTE regulators so all I know is what I've read.
Regardless what IVR it is, you need ground, then 12 volts in at switch on, and 5 volts out to one post of each thermal gauge.
Click to expand...
RedFish said:
I had typed inst" regulator in one place and simpy regulator in a another. I guess I should have typed IVR in both? Anyway, The system voltage regulator is not relevant.
We know you had a copper trace burned on the original board and we know that was the 12 volt supply to the original IVR. We know there was another wire tapped into that black wire and we know its now removed. What I don't know is.. was the white wire a tap out and tap in? Is your IVR getting 12 volts from that black wire?
You said you now have a solid state IVR. Is that the RTE brand? Does it have little LEDs on it? If so, and from what I've read about those, there should be one LED continuously flashing when the thing is on/working properly. I've never dealt with RTE regulators so all I know is what I've read.
Regardless what IVR it is, you need ground, then 12 volts in at switch on, and 5 volts out to one post of each thermal gauge.
Click to expand...


KitCarlson said:
In post #35, I was suggesting you use meter to check gauge circuit. That involves the instrument voltage regulator IVR, not alternator regulator. The meter circuit is simple, a series loop as explained earlier and show in stickypad drawing. Measurements are typically referenced to ground, that is where the black lead goes. If you have a long meter leads, connect the black lead to battery (-) ground, and use the red lead, and meter set to DC volts. The test points are show at a tap connection with circle, the place to put meter red lead. The grounds shown as triangles with points down. With key set to ACC, this should power gauge circuit. First reading read IVR input terminal, good if close to battery voltage. Then measure the ground pint at IVR, it should be near zero ... same with all other grounds. If you read voltage > 0.2V on a ground, then engine to chassis strap is open, or connection bad. Next check output of IVR, with OEM part the voltage will pulse, electronic devices may regulate to ~ 5V, others not sure but there will likely be voltage or pulsing. The test point at sender needs to be done with sender in circuit, otherwise the circuit is open.
It will be useful to retake measurements. I should have marked test points with numbers, then you could show voltages for those using black lead at battery (-).View attachment 1715149317
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I dont have long meter leads, so Ill need to get some. Then Ill check and get back.
 
Clip leads to extend the leads work too, and you can use them for other work too. I would not do that for high voltages, but for12V and voltmeter they work fine.
 
KitCarlson said:
Clip leads to extend the leads work too, and you can use them for other work too. I would not do that for high voltages, but for12V and voltmeter they work fine.
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OK, ill look for some. now just to be clear, Im hooking the ground to the bat neg- terminal and then getting underneath my dash while everything is still and touching the red lead to the IVR to see if its close to battery level around 12.65 off and 14.50 running? That seems doable, but stupid question how are you able to touch all the other points? I cant take my dash out and still have it con?nected...
 
You dont need ground lead all the back to battery. Chassis ground point somewhere under the dash works. If your inst' housing is out of the dash, dangling from its harness connectors, attach a ground jumper from the inst' housing to the chassis. A permanent ground wire from inst' housing to chassis is wise. Of course all your ground attach points need to be checked. Painted surfaces don't work. Hunt unpainted places. I've recommended pulling the left kick panel and add a screw and a wire with ring terminal from there. When my ground wire reaches about 6 inches from another ring terminal under a screw on the inst' panel, a male/female spade connection so my ground wire will unplug like any factory connection.
Majority of solid state IVRs will function ( 5 volts out ) with as little as 9 volts in. Again I don't know all about the fancy RTE unit.
 
Okay, I couldn't figure out for the life of me how to get my steering column down, i took the two bolts off and it didn't lower more than half an inch, so I couldn't test the dash while it was plugged in, considering the small amount of time I had to take it off and put it back together before I had to move the car. But I had a hunch to check the gauges while it was out and you can see below my temp gauge was fried and the wire broken. I put in a old gauge i had in trunk on the off chance it would work but it doesn't either However after putting it back together it looks like the gas gauge does work, which leads me to think its a gauge issue and not an electrical one.



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66fyssh said:
Great news about the fuel gauge!!! Did it settle at a point above Empty?
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No it settles there, and its close to a full tank 17 gallons outta 18, so perhaps the gauge is not perfect mechanically im thinking
 
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