Here's a thought on oil viscosity

-

TrailBeast

AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
22,426
Reaction score
11,916
Location
Arizona
We know oil has to create a film over the bearing surfaces and metal to metal contact surfaces.
What most don't think about very much if at all, is that oil flow over the metals carries off heat.
One myth is that the higher the oil pressure the better, but this is totally false in most cases and can lead to premature engine wear.
So how do you tell what viscosity is best for your motor?

Here's the way I go about deciding.
When you start an engine cold what does your oil pressure read? (probably 60-80 lbs)
When the engine warms up all the way what does it read when you rev it?
If the pressure climbs to the same maximum pressure warmed up and at 3,000 or so RPM's you are using to thick of an oil.

Remember, oil volume for carrying off heat is almost more important than pressure, so if your oil psi hits the same lbs warmed up and at RPM's you are wasting power and probably also getting less flow over the metals to carry off heat.
Also once the oil pressure reaches it's maximum any more pressure than that is being bypassed inside the oil pump wasting volume.

Usually the ideal oil viscosity is one that hits your normal cold psi, and then almost hits that same number at RPM's.
This insures the pump is able to reach it's max pressure and volume both and is able to flow as much cooling volume as possible.

Another way of thinking about this is this.
If 40wt oil shows 80psi cold idle and 80 psi hot at 3k and flows 25 gallons a minute, 30wt oil might show 50lbs hot but flow 30 gallons a minute.
That is 5 gallons a minute of cooler oil flowing over your metal surfaces providing better lubrication as well as better heat removal.

I would rather have a lower pressure that guarantees the full volume the oil pump can flow.
 
There is a lot more to this, including the extra power it takes to maintain high, and for the most part, un-needed pressures. I would concur with this.
If memory serves me right, a top fuel car goes thru the traps with no pressure, still pumping tons of fuel to keep it cool.
 
Viscosity is a measurement of a liquid's resistance to flow so more is not better. Also people get too hung up on oil pressure numbers.
 
There is more to it than that. It's a different story if you measure the oil pressure at the last place to get oil. That would be the end of the rocker shaft on the number 7 cylinder.

I've seen virtually zero oil pressure there with 40 pounds on the gauge.

Where you measure pressure is more important than oil pressure. I won't run anything less than 50 at a hot idle if I can. That's about where I'm at now and that's with a 5W30 synthetic. I bought some rockers from a guy who said he was having issues with the rockers galling the shafts. As soon as I looked at them, I knew the issue and bought them for 25% of new. Polished the shafts and lightly honed the rockers. Looked at the shafts not too long ago. They looked perfect. The other guy had less than 100 miles on them.
 
There is more to it than that. It's a different story if you measure the oil pressure at the last place to get oil. That would be the end of the rocker shaft on the number 7 cylinder.

I've seen virtually zero oil pressure there with 40 pounds on the gauge.

Where you measure pressure is more important than oil pressure. I won't run anything less than 50 at a hot idle if I can. That's about where I'm at now and that's with a 5W30 synthetic. I bought some rockers from a guy who said he was having issues with the rockers galling the shafts. As soon as I looked at them, I knew the issue and bought them for 25% of new. Polished the shafts and lightly honed the rockers. Looked at the shafts not too long ago. They looked perfect. The other guy had less than 100 miles on them.
DOESN`T NO. 8 GET THE LAST SHOT ON A R/B ??
 
When I went from 10w40 dino-oil to a 5w30 semi-synth oil, my engine ran 15° F cooler, while oil pressure pretty much remained the same (maybe 5 lbs less at hot idle).

The engine most likely has received a high volume pump at one time.
i'm currently running 0w20 synthetic oil in my 80s 318.
 
Glad to see this point made about the cooling properties of good oil flow. I tend to run a bit lighter oil due to the same thing. I recall an argument about this once where I made the same point. One argumentative response was that 'they had done testing' and the oil was hotter with thinner oil. My reply was along the lines of 'duh, the thinner oil is carrying off more heat, so of course it is hotter' LOL.

YR, the oil pressure inside the rocker shafts is normally very low with the standard restrictions. How many psi do you think is 'good' there, at idle for example? And for what rocker types?
 
Last edited:
Glad to see this point made about the cooling properties of good oil flow. I tend to run a bit lighter due to the same thing. I recall an argument about this once where I made the same point. One argumentative response was that 'they had done testing' and the oil was hotter with thinner oil. My reply was along the lines of 'duh, the thinner oil is carrying off more heat, so of course it is hotter' LOL.

YR, the oil pressure inside the rocker shafts is normally very low with the standard restrictions. How many psi do you think is 'good' there, at idle for example? And for what rocker types?
I run hughs BUSHED rockers, and have full time oiling to them. I did take a member on here`s suggestion and did it in the lifter galley, by drilling into the oil feed passages. BIG MISTAKE ! A much easier and better way would be to slightly groove the # 4 cam bearing journal, u could get rid of it if u didn`t like it by changing cams. The way I did is a fair amount of trouble to undue .
 
I run hughs BUSHED rockers, and have full time oiling to them. I did take a member on here`s suggestion and did it in the lifter galley, by drilling into the oil feed passages. BIG MISTAKE ! A much easier and better way would be to slightly groove the # 4 cam bearing journal, u could get rid of it if u didn`t like it by changing cams. The way I did is a fair amount of trouble to undue .

perhaps not
when i was younger i worked at a place rebuilding VW diesel engines
one of the things we did was reroute a certain oil passage to the head, because it was a spot where the block was prone to cracking

we had these machined aluminum plugs we would locktite and drive into the block
that would block the passage, and then we would tap into a different passage and run a line around the outside of the block

what im saying is, you might be able to drive a plug in the custom holes to undo it
 
Glad to see this point made about the cooling properties of good oil flow. I tend to run a bit lighter due to the same thing. I recall an argument about this once where I made the same point. One argumentative response was that 'they had done testing' and the oil was hotter with thinner oil. My reply was along the lines of 'duh, the thinner oil is carrying off more heat, so of course it is hotter' LOL.

YR, the oil pressure inside the rocker shafts is normally very low with the standard restrictions. How many psi do you think is 'good' there, at idle for example? And for what rocker types?


For 250ish on the seat with ball type adjuster you can get by with 20-25 at the shaft. When the seat pressure is over 300 then all bets are off...I won't run less than 50 at the shafts or you will kill pushrods and and loose a bunch of power from the rockers grabbing the shafts.

My last engine with 340ish on the seat had an external bypass that was adjustable. I had 65 pounds at the shafts at idle. Which was about 85 pounds at hot idle and 130 or at 8800 at the gauge. It takes a big return line to keep the high rpm oil pressure and volume under control.

Those numbers are off the top of my head, but they are very close. When it was on alcohol it the numbers were a bit higher because I didn't use 100% synthetic. It was a 50/50 blend and one grade higher that what I used on gas.


Edit: that was with Norris SS bushed rockers. You *MIGHT* be able to use less oil volume and pressure with needle bearings on the shaft, but you still have to get oil to the adjusters. I can tell you it takes very little time to start eating adjusters if you don't have oil to them.

I was so good at catching it that people would ask me why I was pulling the valve covers a minute into warm up. I'd tell them I can hear it randomly dropping cylinders. Then you'd find 3-4 adjusters in various stages of getting smoked.
 
perhaps not
when i was younger i worked at a place rebuilding VW diesel engines
one of the things we did was reroute a certain oil passage to the head, because it was a spot where the block was prone to cracking

we had these machined aluminum plugs we would locktite and drive into the block
that would block the passage, and then we would tap into a different passage and run a line around the outside of the block

what im saying is, you might be able to drive a plug in the custom holes to undo it

Agree, I will plug the feed holes and drill the size holes in the plugs that I want "if", I ever have to pull the engine out . Don't want to do that tho ! I run 20w50 to keep my oil pressure acceptable.
 
I run hughs BUSHED rockers, and have full time oiling to them. I did take a member on here`s suggestion and did it in the lifter galley, by drilling into the oil feed passages. BIG MISTAKE ! A much easier and better way would be to slightly groove the # 4 cam bearing journal, u could get rid of it if u didn`t like it by changing cams. The way I did is a fair amount of trouble to undue .
CORRECTION: I run hughs rockers , no shaft bearings, but they are not bushed either. MY BAD !
 
The longer the oil is in the pan, the cooler it will be, there is a line.

That aside... i use 20w50, cold it will touch 80+ rev'd....warmed up its max is 65 ish lbs revs.
 
There is more to it than that. It's a different story if you measure the oil pressure at the last place to get oil. That would be the end of the rocker shaft on the number 7 cylinder.

I've seen virtually zero oil pressure there with 40 pounds on the gauge.

Where you measure pressure is more important than oil pressure. I won't run anything less than 50 at a hot idle if I can. That's about where I'm at now and that's with a 5W30 synthetic. I bought some rockers from a guy who said he was having issues with the rockers galling the shafts. As soon as I looked at them, I knew the issue and bought them for 25% of new. Polished the shafts and lightly honed the rockers. Looked at the shafts not too long ago. They looked perfect. The other guy had less than 100 miles on them.
How to you read oil pressure at the shaft?
Sorry if it's a dumb question.
 
How to you read oil pressure at the shaft?
Sorry if it's a dumb question.


I had to waste two rocker shafts.

I used a SS number 4 AN fitting and tigged them into the shaft the furthest away from the end where the oil feed is. On a small block that's the number 7 end and the number 2 end.

Then I used a hose with a small loop in it and connected that to an aluminum bulk head fitting into the valve cover. Then it was easy to hook gauges to the end of the shafts. It was an eye opener for sure. But no one else could tell me what the pressure drop at the shafts were.
 
I had to waste two rocker shafts.

I used a SS number 4 AN fitting and tigged them into the shaft the furthest away from the end where the oil feed is. On a small block that's the number 7 end and the number 2 end.

Then I used a hose with a small loop in it and connected that to an aluminum bulk head fitting into the valve cover. Then it was easy to hook gauges to the end of the shafts. It was an eye opener for sure. But no one else could tell me what the pressure drop at the shafts were.

Not a waste at all It was was a prototype.
 
50 years ago I worked at a shop run by a guy named Pat Cockey who was a former used car dealer Fromm Dallas.

He told me when they had an old Ford flathead or Chevy six with low oil pressure they would simply pull the dash glass off and use a needle nose pliers to bend the needle on the oil pressure gauge.

Everyone complained if the gauge didn't hit 20lbs. with the engine running but no one ever bitched about having 20lbs. with the engine off.

You old timers may remember that from '37 until '52 Chevies had a splash oil system that didn't use any oil pump.
 
Viscosity is a measurement of a liquid's resistance to flow so more is not better. Also people get too hung up on oil pressure numbers.

X2. I like 30-40psi at hot idle, max of 65-85. Sometimes these results will not happen until after the break in oil is dropped - I always thought that was a side effect of the various assembly products and cam break-in paste... I also like more oil upstairs and take steps to "help" the factory oiling to get that to happen.
 
Oh. My.

GAWD
He also mentioned that they would drive a wooden fence post into a cylinder that had suffered damage from a broken piston or dropped valve. Just cut away the top of the rod and bolt the big end to the crank to maintain oil pressure.

The engine would have a miss but these were $50-100 cars back then.

I used 80w90 in a '55 Chevy 6 that I owned because 50w oil was too thin to keep from using two quarts of oil per day.
 
-
Back
Top