haplo555
wade
Any body runing the complete hotchkis system. If so how much did it improve handling /ride.
Hotchkis suspension
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1970Duster
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Talk to autoxcuda he has that system
1968FormulaS340
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I think Autoxcuda is running that system.
I was down on the system because of the price but after reading his review it sounds like a solid investment.
I was down on the system because of the price but after reading his review it sounds like a solid investment.
Hotchkis has a 70 Challenger T/A with their complete system and it out handles a new Challenger! Go to Edmundsinsideline.com to see the video!
haplo555
wade
Thanks I have a 70 ta challenger and that is what i want to put it on,
1968FormulaS340
Well-Known Member
And here is one of my problems with these suspension systems (or more accurately, those that buy them).
If you use a system like this then run a general purpose radial, like the BFGs on that Challenger, you severely limit your gains.
If your build plan does not include a real high performance wheel/tire package most of that money spent on the suspension is going unused.
If you use a system like this then run a general purpose radial, like the BFGs on that Challenger, you severely limit your gains.
If your build plan does not include a real high performance wheel/tire package most of that money spent on the suspension is going unused.
If I had the bucks I'd do it.
haplo555
wade
Thanks 68 formula. the tires will be Nitto 235/50ZR17. Car is not stock. 422 small block with w5 heads, roller cam, tti headers,tremec 5 speed and mini tub rear.
I'm waiting on my Hotchkis control arms and sway bars for my Challenger (back ordered!). They are expensive, but hotchkis makes excellent, high quality parts. I was fortunate enough to get them when they were on sale at Summit and use a discount code on top of that. :-D Still not cheap, but a lot more reasonable.
I'm not sure that I would go as far as to get the entire system. Their steering arms and adjustable strut rods are nice, but there are other options out there that would accomplish the exact same thing for less money.
The upper control arms are unique, no other company currently offers a tubular UCA with a relocated pivot to improve geometry. This is probably the most worthwhile part of their entire offering.
The geometry corrected rear spring is also a cool product, but there are other options in this area. An offset rear spring hanger/shackle set up may be more beneficial to you, and there are a lot of spring options out there.
The tubular (hollow) sway bars are also unique, as is the adjustable rear sway bar. You can get the job done with solid bars though. They're heavier, but also cost quite a bit less. The sway bars are really nice pieces (which is why I bought a pair), but if you're on a budget there are other options.
For the E-bodies, the frame connectors are a good piece. The E-body isn't as easy to make frame connectors for due to some different geometry. It can still be done, but the Hotchkis connectors have a unique design that locates them farther outboard (better for controlling twist) and makes them easier to install. You could definitely make a set for a lot less, but I think the Hotchkis connectors make the job of installation a lot easier on an E-body. For an A-body, a straight piece of rectangular tubing does the job just fine, and the Hotckis A-body connectors are basically the same thing that guys have been making at home for A LOT less money. I bought a set for my Challenger because I didn't want to cut my floorboards, and making your own gets harder if you don't do that on an E-body. For an A-body, I wouldn't bother going with Hotchkis connectors.
I'm not sure that I would go as far as to get the entire system. Their steering arms and adjustable strut rods are nice, but there are other options out there that would accomplish the exact same thing for less money.
The upper control arms are unique, no other company currently offers a tubular UCA with a relocated pivot to improve geometry. This is probably the most worthwhile part of their entire offering.
The geometry corrected rear spring is also a cool product, but there are other options in this area. An offset rear spring hanger/shackle set up may be more beneficial to you, and there are a lot of spring options out there.
The tubular (hollow) sway bars are also unique, as is the adjustable rear sway bar. You can get the job done with solid bars though. They're heavier, but also cost quite a bit less. The sway bars are really nice pieces (which is why I bought a pair), but if you're on a budget there are other options.
For the E-bodies, the frame connectors are a good piece. The E-body isn't as easy to make frame connectors for due to some different geometry. It can still be done, but the Hotchkis connectors have a unique design that locates them farther outboard (better for controlling twist) and makes them easier to install. You could definitely make a set for a lot less, but I think the Hotchkis connectors make the job of installation a lot easier on an E-body. For an A-body, a straight piece of rectangular tubing does the job just fine, and the Hotckis A-body connectors are basically the same thing that guys have been making at home for A LOT less money. I bought a set for my Challenger because I didn't want to cut my floorboards, and making your own gets harder if you don't do that on an E-body. For an A-body, I wouldn't bother going with Hotchkis connectors.
autoxcuda
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Yes, I have the complete TVS system.
I already had done pretty extensive suspension upgrade over the last 16 years. But mostly low budget junkyard or whatever flaming deals I could score at swap meets over 16 years time.
But stepping up the Hotchkis system really took it the next level. It refined everything to get a more balanced, more predictable car. The Bilstein shocks were awesome too. I made a huge jump to much bigger torsion bars and I was really worried about the ride. Really wasn't nearly what I expected. I think the shocks helped contributed a bunch to that, but the whole system did too.
The rear leaf springs are pretty unique. The ones you get from PST, Just Suspension, Spring and Things, Detroit Spring, XHD Mopar, are not like this. They have two really thick under leafs that extend all the way to the front eye to prevent spring wrap up and then another thick leaf on top to prevent wheel hop under braking. The Firm Feel springs may be like that. I have not seen them.
Some pictures.
I already had done pretty extensive suspension upgrade over the last 16 years. But mostly low budget junkyard or whatever flaming deals I could score at swap meets over 16 years time.
But stepping up the Hotchkis system really took it the next level. It refined everything to get a more balanced, more predictable car. The Bilstein shocks were awesome too. I made a huge jump to much bigger torsion bars and I was really worried about the ride. Really wasn't nearly what I expected. I think the shocks helped contributed a bunch to that, but the whole system did too.
The rear leaf springs are pretty unique. The ones you get from PST, Just Suspension, Spring and Things, Detroit Spring, XHD Mopar, are not like this. They have two really thick under leafs that extend all the way to the front eye to prevent spring wrap up and then another thick leaf on top to prevent wheel hop under braking. The Firm Feel springs may be like that. I have not seen them.
Some pictures.
Good info Steve!
I didn't know the rear springs were that special, definitely look different than the standard fare.
On another note, from your picture it doesn't look like the A-body UCA's have a relocated pivot point. I wonder why the E-body UCA's had the anti-dive taken out and the camber curve improved by relocating the front pivot of the UCA and the A-body UCA's didn't...
I didn't know the rear springs were that special, definitely look different than the standard fare.
On another note, from your picture it doesn't look like the A-body UCA's have a relocated pivot point. I wonder why the E-body UCA's had the anti-dive taken out and the camber curve improved by relocating the front pivot of the UCA and the A-body UCA's didn't...
autoxcuda
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And they actually weigh less than my stock ones.
You are correct. The A-body are not relocated. They checked the bumpsteer and plotted out the A-body geometry and found it didn't have the bump steer issues the E-bodies and B-bodies suffered from. So they decided it didn't need it.
Just my theory/guesswork... The E-body front end geometry is shared/borrowed with 71 B-bodies. That front end has to work on 4500 lbs B-body station wagons with 118" wheelbases compared to 70 Cuda with 108" wheelbases. 67-76 A-bodies had a narrower application and were 108 or 111" wheelbase with the largest one a 4 door.
The anti dive on the E-bodies also has to handle the nose dive of a loaded 71 Satelite Custom with a trailer (Brady Bunch)
LOL!!! :toothy10:
But joking aside, it makes sense. I guess I may have to take a harder look at those rear springs. Maybe have add a set to the wish list for later.
haplo555
wade
Thanks guys, I think i am going to try their upper a arms and rear springs, all ready have 1.1/8 front sway bar 3/4 rear and c body front brakes with XHD mopar springs in back and 9.20 tbs. and sub frame tied together with mopar kit.
autoxcuda
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What shocks are you running?
Depending on what shock you have now, I'd get shocks on that list.
fcm42000
Banned
Has anyone noticed a difference in handling with relocated springs? I moved my springs inboard and putting either 285/40/18 or 315/35/17. I probably bought the wrong springs, S/S, but I could upgrade to these if they will ride better and lower the rear a lttle.
haplo555
wade
Kyb ?
Which relocation did you do? The "no cutting" 1/2" relocation isn't likely to change much at all. The 3" relocation might make a difference, since the rear might be more likely to move around a little with the narrower mounts. Still, I'm not sure the difference would be really noticeable unless you're going to be spending a lot of time on a road course.
The super stock springs aren't a great choice, because of the added height and offset spring rate/arch. They'll move the CG up, and make the left/right handling different. They also might actually be too stiff, especially if you're running a rear sway bar. SS springs have a rate around 160-175 lbs/in, most of the "road race" springs are around 125 lb/in, but are intended for use with a rear sway bar.
There are probably worse shocks to use out there, but with the rest of the upgrades you'd definitely benefit from a better set of shocks.
Darius
Darius
Does the front Hotchkiss sway bar mount below the level of the K frame??
Looking at the pictures on their site it appears the side length of the bar is MUCH shorter that the one on my Dart now.
Anyone have a pic of this install.....Steve?????
Looking at the pictures on their site it appears the side length of the bar is MUCH shorter that the one on my Dart now.
Anyone have a pic of this install.....Steve?????
autoxcuda
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Whick K-member are you running. The 67-72 with the wide sway bar in front of the K-member (longer) OR the 73-76 style with the sway bar going through it (shorter).
Do yo have factory sway bar lower control arms?
I run the 73-76 style K-member in my 1968 Barracuda. And those are the pictures I posted above.
I have pictures of a Hotchkis sway bar with early K-member too.
Darius
Darius
My car is completely stock 69 Dart GTS, original issue equipment. It has the sway bar that crosses in front of the K frame and has a little "bump" in the center to clear the lower radiator support strut.
I'm wondering how the Hotchkiss sway bar will mount. I called them and the guy I spoke with really didn't know squat. He says "are you looking at the pics on the install instructions on the web site?" I say yes, that is why I am calling to clarify the install question. He says "All we have is the picture of the Demon on the web page to show you". So ,I am still wondering. I would hate to have to have the bar "hanging" below the level of the K frame and i am not going to all the trouble of swapping K frames judt to make this work...that does not make sense for what I want to achieve.....better handling so when I do feel the urge I can "play". The only time I might "race" it would be Spring Fling at the track next year ...maybe.
I'm wondering how the Hotchkiss sway bar will mount. I called them and the guy I spoke with really didn't know squat. He says "are you looking at the pics on the install instructions on the web site?" I say yes, that is why I am calling to clarify the install question. He says "All we have is the picture of the Demon on the web page to show you". So ,I am still wondering. I would hate to have to have the bar "hanging" below the level of the K frame and i am not going to all the trouble of swapping K frames judt to make this work...that does not make sense for what I want to achieve.....better handling so when I do feel the urge I can "play". The only time I might "race" it would be Spring Fling at the track next year ...maybe.
autoxcuda
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I have some pictures of that Demon also when they had that Mopar Open House event two years ago. I used to have the early K and swaybar setup you have. I've put a a set of sway bar adapter to run poly bushings and the sway bar sat lower relative to the K-member than the Hotchkis one. Also my car was/is very low.
The swaybar and brack look to be above the K-member in the pictures. I dont think you could get it to me much higher. The factory brackets are commonly smashed too from parking against high curbs.
The swaybar and brack look to be above the K-member in the pictures. I dont think you could get it to me much higher. The factory brackets are commonly smashed too from parking against high curbs.
Hey Steve, when did you install this setup? I assume it was after the Fling. Now I'm afraid to show up at the track day -- you'll really embarrass me...
autoxcuda
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