How come W2 heads aren't made by all

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dodge freak

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Too close to Detroit, lol
Edelbrock, Indy, RHS, nobody makes W2 heads, why not ? They do flow better, why just copy the factory heads.

I wounder if trademark rights have something to do with it?
 
hmm. there are several differant styles of a w2 head. im assuming the w2s your talking about are the oval port heads. id love to see edelbrock produce an aluminum oval port smallblock mopar head, and call it a "victor junior" smblock head...... probably will never happen. but idk man open any speed parts magazine, and for chevy and ford smblocks there has to be 100+ diferant performance heads..... and for mopar theres about 3 so. just my 2 cents
 
ya just cant beat good head....they tryin to come up with sumthin better.........I can'r wait to see it (holding breath) (turning blue) just cant beat the W-2 they is bad azz :)
 
From what remember the Batten head was the aluminum version of the W2. Then they made the intake runners rectangular, Exhaust stayed the same. Indy bought the patend. My batten intake bolts right up to my Indy heads. and the 2 inch W-2 headers bolt right on also. So if you want the new version of the W-2 buy Indy heads. In my opinion they are the best head for the small block. and you can use all 18 head studs on a R-3.
 
The Indy heads are modeled after the Batten heads which were modeled after the W2
 
Batten and Indy are the only one's t copy-ish the W2 head. When Edelbrock came out with there head, the price was right and the flow rates just behind the W2 at half the price. Wht go W2 at this point?

the biggest problem with MoPar is;

Pricing
Letting the people know they have a good deal (?) somewhere at some time.
Advertisement issue's.
Added expense over a stock head. Rocker arms and now, the W2 needs rocker stands.
At one point, they must have had 10 different versions of the head out which makes it confusing for a local Joe to up the anti on his car to compete with the other brands.

IF MoPar advertised and divided the heads up into catogories, like one for the street guys, like they recently did but years ago would have been nicer, and cut the expense down on a good head, you would have seen more W2 engines roaming the street killing the Fords and Chevy guys.

MoPar can only blame themselfs for there failure.
 
So what does a set of these Indy heads go for? Their website is :internet edit:

I'm guessing way way way way too much.

I'm also guessing the reason they didn't cast the Indy - X in aluminum like every other place has done since the early 90s was so they didn't create competition for their own $$$ heads.

I love this:

http://www.indyheads.com/lax.html

Here buy our heads. For another $200.00, we'll make sure the chamber is what we say it is......WTF?!?!?!?!?!

Entry level Ford heads flow with the best stuff we can get and are about $1350 a pair, with beehives, 8mm valves and are aluminum.

http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=21_31

Pretty easy to get mid 11s out of a stock bottom end carbureted 302 with the heads one step smaller (AFR 165) @ 3200 pounds....

Somebody needs to do something for us. This is ridiculous.
 
I blame mopar, it might well be patten related, why nobody has oval port heads for mopar.

its mopar fault for not having ANY 2 door cars with V8 engines since the early 80's--well the over priced Viper was it and that didn't happen til late.

here Chrysler still goes bankrupt, they just put it off 25 years.

These bankruptcy were a joke, so many suppliers and investors got cheated and GM and Chrysler got to keep all its trademarks. Everything should have been sold off to pay off its debt.

Who knows how much Japan would have paid for the Chevy and Hemi names ?
 
Wow, a lot of hating on Chrysler huh? Mopar offers many heads for the small blocks in both 59 and 48 degree versions. The main problem is not getting a good head, it's the expensive valve and rocker gear that goes with it. But let's face it, if it's a serious effort you need to buy serious rocker and valve gear anyway so it's really a moot point.

The reason Chevy and Ford stuff is so abundant and cheap is because of simple supply and demand. Hell everybody and their brother has a Camaro and every squirrel with a drivers license has a fox body Mustang, so there you have it, simple economics.

If you want to do something different you build a Mopar or an AMC, neither of these engines are cookie cutter and personally I like it that way. If you want easy, cheap and a me too engine, build a Chevy or Ford.
 
Wow, a lot of hating on Chrysler huh? Mopar offers many heads for the small blocks in both 59 and 48 degree versions. The main problem is not getting a good head, it's the expensive valve and rocker gear that goes with it. But let's face it, if it's a serious effort you need to buy serious rocker and valve gear anyway so it's really a moot point.

The reason Chevy and Ford stuff is so abundant and cheap is because of simple supply and demand. Hell everybody and their brother has a Camaro and every squirrel with a drivers license has a fox body Mustang, so there you have it, simple economics.

If you want to do something different you build a Mopar or an AMC, neither of these engines are cookie cutter and personally I like it that way. If you want easy, cheap and a me too engine, build a Chevy or Ford.

WELL SAID!

There are a ton of good heads out there for Mopars! Yeah, they aren't cheap, but like Guitar Jones says, there are plenty of heads out there.

It isn't just the oval port design that makes the head work, it is the push rod pinch that is taken away.

Also, many are forgetting we get to START with an 18 degree head right from a stock head! The Chevy boys would love to have that kind of angle on their "budget" heads.

My W2 heads didn't set me back a whole lot, but the rocker gear was a killer. If you are doing a budget build though, there is cheaper rockers out there to do the job, such as the crane golds. I opted for the T&D Machine Products 1.7 rockers for my W2 Econo heads. They cost me almost as much as the ported heads. But I wanted a rocker gear that would take the spring pressures that we are throwing at it, along with the solid roller and higher lift camshaft.

If you are building a fire breathing Chevy or Ford, you will need to spent money in the same places. T&D and Jessel stuff is spendy across the board, not just mopar.

A stock small block mopar will go a fair amount further than a stock small chevy head. I wasn't really impressed with the flow numbers on my J heads when we first put them on a flow bench. Then I had one of my Chevy buddy's Dart Iron Eagle 200cc head that had a nice fully hand done port on the bench, and it fell 30cfm short of my stock casting hand ported J's.

So, maybe the after market heads that work well out there are expensive, but your stock castings will be on par with a "budget" Chevy head.

At the end of the day, Speed cost money, how fast do you want to go? I have a set of W5's sitting on the shelf that will need a nice rocker gear, valves, and springs before I can use them. I don't have the money to spend on them yet, so the shelf is where they stay until I am at the point to use them.


-Kenny
 
I'm sure it's just business, I mean most of those companies supply bits and pieces for people running W2 heads and if they started casting their own stuff maybe Mopar would get unhappy and take some sort of legal action, anymore it seems like they don't care enough about the enthusiast but more about what the lawyers would think of releasing some part. I got a chance to speak with someone from Profiler and I asked When is something good coming for us mopar guys that want to make power?? He told me "Well, we cast some parts for mopar and have a deal with them, we don't want to lose the deal by designing and casting our own parts." . . . I'm sorry but that's sad to me, you'd rather sit back and count bills than supply the best possible part you can make.
 
wig, it's a catch 22 for that guy. Beileve me, MoPar has some of they best stuff outthere for us. I ***** on one hand and cheer on the other. But I mostly cheer.

The Brodix stuff is nice. Rectangle ports. Similar to the W5.

Click this and take a look atthem, look atthe left side bar.
http://shadydellspeedshop.com/
 
Wow, a lot of hating on Chrysler huh? Mopar offers many heads for the small blocks in both 59 and 48 degree versions. The main problem is not getting a good head, it's the expensive valve and rocker gear that goes with it. But let's face it, if it's a serious effort you need to buy serious rocker and valve gear anyway so it's really a moot point.

The reason Chevy and Ford stuff is so abundant and cheap is because of simple supply and demand. Hell everybody and their brother has a Camaro and every squirrel with a drivers license has a fox body Mustang, so there you have it, simple economics.

If you want to do something different you build a Mopar or an AMC, neither of these engines are cookie cutter and personally I like it that way. If you want easy, cheap and a me too engine, build a Chevy or Ford.


yup. Better heads exist and address the geometry issue and cylinder head gasket issue.
 
I think another point that has not been discussed here is porting. W2/W5/W8 etc. heads work best when ported. Sure, you can use them OOTB but Mopar realizes that people are going to port them for maximum efficiency and power.

So let's say now that you are company wanting to produce a set of W2 style heads since it is in fact a proven design. How do you go about that? Do you design them to flow like ported heads? How much would you charge for that? Ain't gonna be cheap! (see Indy) Or do you sell a set of heads that need to be ported to work best? How do you charge for that? (see Indy) Kind of a conundrum, eh?

The factory has a ton of R & D into their performance program which unfortunately gets passed on to the customer. Plus, it's really kind of a niche market and an extremely small one at that, even beyond their regular consumers. So yeah, it makes very little financial sense to pursue this kind of stuff in this economic climate without a decent return on your investment. That's probably why Mopar is so tight about copyrights and licensing and why they charge premium prices. It is too bad though that they don't make better choices like bringing back the 576 iron heads or even the W5s. Bet they'd sell a bunch.

I can't imagine a little company trying to develop a set of heads like that on small scale, you'd have to sell a ton of parts to get a return on your investment. Doubt any small business has the resources to make that work. Turns out that the big companies don't have the resources either, at least at this point in time.

But like what was said above, if you slap a Blue Oval or Bowtie on it you can likely expect a larger return due to basic laws of supply and demand. :angry3:
 
I think another point that has not been discussed here is porting. W2/W5/W8 etc. heads work best when ported. Sure, you can use them OOTB but Mopar realizes that people are going to port them for maximum efficiency and power.

That is a good point you bring up. For example, my fully ported J heads flow 20cfm over my new casting W5's. There is plenty of meat around the valve guide area. They are meant to be ported!

-Kenny
 
What about Brodix? Arent they kind of W2ish? You don't see much about them ever.

Yeah, you don't see too many B1-A-MC's around. I think it is a price issue, along with rocker gear possibly. I believe the Indy 245cc 360-1 will beat the Brodix for less money. I don't know that for sure though.
 
I would love to see a Victor Jr. W2 copy, if anybody is listening, please try and make that happen.
 
I would love to see a Victor Jr. W2 copy, if anybody is listening, please try and make that happen.

And please bring out a dual eddy intake like BBM have. That be an awesome set up.

Who the heck owns Mopar today anyhow ? Maybe a group of bankers that never drive a car themselves, LOL
Or is it still partly own by the US gov?
 
They paid the Gov. back allready. Fiat owns a good share of them. (Chrysler Corp.)

MoPar Performance, the performance racing side of Chrysler is more closer to a bunch of oht rodders/racers than a biz IMO.
(Aint nothin wrong with that. But big brother Chrysler limits them I'd bet)
 
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