How much hp/torq will an OEM 833 4sp and 8 3/4 take?

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One thing does come to mind and that is that if you purchased a 440 (or bigger) car w/4-spd, the Dana axle was std. It could be they didn't want to go through the expense of tooling another differential for the 69 440 a-bodies. So it was offered with Auto only.. It did come in the 68 Hemi cars w/4-spd, but that was it..
 
Rocky_JS said:
One thing does come to mind and that is that if you purchased a 440 (or bigger) car w/4-spd, the Dana axle was std. It could be they didn't want to go through the expense of tooling another differential for the 69 440 a-bodies. So it was offered with Auto only.. It did come in the 68 Hemi cars w/4-spd, but that was it..
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He did not, The only real 440 A-Bodies were auto only and 69 with 8 3/4. Course you know that already! 3.91 top gear I think!
 
He is sitting back reading and laughing IMO!
 
1969383S said:
He did not, The only real 440 A-Bodies were auto only and 69 with 8 3/4. Course you know that already! 3.91 top gear I think!
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Jim wrote "mopar only put torqflites in the cars because they thought a 4 speed would either not hold up or would be abused enough to cause too many warranty claims."

Aye, I think the question in his first post was maybe why the 4-spd wasn't offered in the 440 a-body. The 440 and 4-spd wasn't offered w/o dana axle, it was required, which wasn't offered for a-body! And yes I knew that haha =)
 
Rocky_JS said:
Jim wrote "mopar only put torqflites in the cars because they thought a 4 speed would either not hold up or would be abused enough to cause too many warranty claims."

Aye, I think the question in his first post was maybe why the 4-spd wasn't offered in the 440 a-body. The 440 and 4-spd wasn't offered w/o dana axle, it was required, which wasn't offered for a-body! And yes I knew that haha =)
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:lol::lol::lol:
 
Way I see it is every one that posted got sucked in to BS! Me included!
 
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Well Jim, you gonna come clean?
 
jimharvard said:
you must be psychic... would you like to guess the last thing AMD installed in the floor pan? yep... a 4 speed tunnel...
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I saw Auto brackets on the donor. You did not post final close ups of the floor pan! Guess for good reason you think!

What are you thinking to spend the $ on backing it up from race only trim to soil a real 440 car? Your desicion for sure but gotta question your intentions, sorry!
 
wow... WAY too many "negative ions" coming into this post.... :0(

well.... i made craig hopkins at AMD happy thursday ... the M-Code went on one of my credit cards as a "very large" charge. AMD is packing up the car and putting it in storage till i can get a shipper to pick it up.

yes, the car is going to be a 440 with a 4 speed and a 3:91 rear gear. and yes, this M-Code will not be a "pure stock" car the way M-Code 69 Cudas were built. it will be a 4 speed, not a torqflite. it's going to have the six-pack carb set-up, NOT the "correct" AVS 4 barrel carb. it's going to have the OEM 69 disc brakes on the front and drums in the back. it will have a "ram air" setup created from parts that were offered on 69 mopars and it will have power steering. this will be a street car with an occassional trip to the local "flash light drags."

so i'm sure i will have more questions for the FABO community as this project proceeds...

thanks again for all your thoughts...
 
So you have good consensus that the 8 3/4 will not survive the 440 done right with 833. Do you cut it back up for survival? Have you lost it?
 
1969383S said:
I saw Auto brackets on the donor. You did not post final close ups of the floor pan! Guess for good reason you think!

What are you thinking to spend the $ on backing it up from race only trim to soil a real 440 car? Your desicion for sure but gotta question your intentions, sorry!
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here's my thinking...

this car could never be equal in value to one of the many "museum quality" M-Code restorations out there that were never altered from original. i have a file on M-Code cars and the most expensive one i have listed is a B-5 blue fastback that is "perfect" and is suppose to be the first M-Code produced. it sold a couple of years ago for $75k. a second more recent "black" fastback sold at Auction America last year for $60k. because my car was so cut up when it was made into a drag car and needed so much work to bring it back to OEM design, i felt that converting it to a 4 speed car was not going to hurt the overall value. and because i'm trying to build what i believe could have been a production Barracuda equivalent to the 69 1/2 A12 Roadrunner, i'm going to be changing some of the things the real M-Codes were built with. i've also decided on the color - it's going to be the late 69 paint offering, "Vitamin C Orange" which was the color offered on the A12 Roadrunner. my car is also going to have the black fiberglass lift off hood with the "Ramcharger" scoop just like the A12. however, it will have the A-56, A-57 M-Code lower rocker side stripe.

with the vitamin C orange paint just like the Roadrunner and the black fiberglass hood, i want this M-Code to look like a "drag racing only" model the way the A12 was marketed. i'm installing 8" "police style" slotted black steel wheels with only chrome lug nuts. i'm really trying to recreate the A12 with this car using parts that were in the mopar inventory in 1969.

so this is going to be a "real M-Code" Cuda according to the VIN - but with a number of modifications that Ma Mopar "could have included" ... that's the idea of this car.

i think it's going to be very unique when done. AND it will represent a "Cuda" that "could" have been built; would have been a killer on the drag strip; very drivable on the street; and very close to the "Plymouth Makes It!" "Rapid Transit System" series of cars that were the marketing theme of Chrysler in 1969.
 
1969383S said:
So you have good consensus that the 8 3/4 will not survive the 440 done right with 833. Do you cut it back up for survival? Have you lost it?
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i don't know what you mean.. i think the 833 and 8 3/4 will survive the amount of "thrashing" i will be doing to this car. AND this car is probably going to run Cooker red line "retro" tires. so with the 833 and the torq of the 440 and a 3:91, i don't think the drive train is going to break, i think the car is just going to destroy tires - which is OK.

believe me, this project has been VERY expensive and VERY complicated - including a bit of "lawyer litigation" to "sort out a few issues." this car is now back to a "stock" M-Code Cuda - and that is primarily what it is going to remain.
 
Makes no sense to me!

It is a real M-code and what it is was when you purchased it is what it will still be, a cut up original. Why bother doing what you did to bring it back? You could have spent much less and got the same car in the end! I for one thought you were restoring this beast!

Makes no sense when it was already set-up for your intended joy! Some quarter panel work and you were good! It had a Dana 4 link did it not!
 
My 367 tore a few teeth off a used 3.91. Also a used 5.13
It tore a maindrive out of an O/D box, too
And it has broken several discs, usually breaking the spring pockets, but also tearing off the linings. 7290s couldn't take it, either.She's got 1350s now.
All this with a street suspension and 295s, you know; the ones that everybody loves to trash talk.
But maybe splitting gears with a GVOD might have something to do with that,lol.
Or the CFII
 
Anyone who has owned a GV behind a stick and didn't half clutch it know how harsh it can be.
Man i wish i hadn't sold my last one with my diesel truck:BangHead:
 
1969383S said:
Makes no sense to me!

It is a real M-code and what it is was when you purchased it is what it will still be, a cut up original. Why bother doing what you did to bring it back? You could have spent much less and got the same car in the end! I for one thought you were restoring this beast!

Makes no sense when it was already set-up for your intended joy! Some quarter panel work and you were good! It had a Dana 4 link did it not!
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well.... i am "restoring" this car. the car is going to have a 440, just like the factory M cars; it is going to have the same body structure, just like the factory M cars; it's going to have the same EXACT interior as the original cars. it's going to have a 8 3/4 rear diff. and a 3:91, just like the factory M cars. i'm going to paint it Vitamin C orange which was offered when the original M cars were produced. i do not think there were any "special" colors offered for the M cars only. i think all the 69 Plymouth colors were available. Big Block Dave here at FABO might know that answer - he's the "M-Code guru" here.

really, the only things that are going to be different on this m car vers all the others is that mine will be a 4 speed and will have a six pack carb setup. the work AMD did on the body panels is exactly like factory. they have a $25k portable spot welder that they bought just to re-create factory spot welds. AND, AMD put all the panels on at the original factory attachment/weld locations. there are no "mid-panel" welds on this car. so unless you knew the history of this car, you could not tell that it was once a cut up drag car. i have spent a lot of money to achieve this result.

again, i DID NOT want a "drag car" M-Code Cuda. i wanted a "factory" M-Code that was a bit more unique than all the others and a car that i could "shift gears" while driving. as far as i know, i think there are at least 200 or more "original" M-Code 69 Cudas out there. other than the paint color, they are all the same. my car will be a truely unique "M-Code."

so that's the deal...
 
Hyup, I learned that in 2004 or so, when I put the CFII in it. Then, maybe the next summer I pulled that CFII disc out, and started beating up on factory 340 discs. Then I finally "got smart" and shimmed my PP away from the flywheel for a lil slip below 3000 rpm or so. Finally, I stopped driving like a hi-schooler. I haven't blown one up for a while now, and the shift doesn't break the tires loose anymore at 80. Although I do have a vibration in there again..............
 
AJ/FormS said:
Hyup, I learned that in 2004 or so, when I put the CFII in it. Then, maybe the next summer I pulled that CFII disc out, and started beating up on factory 340 discs. Then I finally "got smart" and shimmed my PP away from the flywheel for a lil slip below 3000 rpm or so. Finally, I stopped driving like a hi-schooler. I haven't blown one up for a while now, and the shift doesn't break the tires loose anymore at 80. Although I do have a vibration in there again..............
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i have to admit, i am NOT familiar with the quality of racing parts these days. in 1970 when i was street racing my "original" 340 4 sp 3:91 fastback formula S, i only put one clutch in it. back then, a company named "Schaifer" made racing clutches that were very good. the small block takes a 10.5" and the big block takes a 11" i believe. i only used the "three finger" pressure plates as i never liked the "diaphram" design (which was "new" in 1970). that Schaifer 10.5 clutch disc and 3 finger PP stood up to a years worth of "high school driving" (because i was a high school student at the time). EVERY weekend i was doing 3500 dead stop burn outs with this car and "power shifting" at 6k in every street race.

as i said, i just don't know how parts hold up these days. i know 47 years ago, when you got a heavy part in a cardboard box from the "Mopar parts man", that part was almost bullet proof.
 
jimharvard said:
i have to admit, i am NOT familiar with the quality of racing parts these days. in 1970 when i was street racing my "original" 340 4 sp 3:91 fastback formula S, i only put one clutch in it. back then, a company named "Schaifer" made racing clutches that were very good. the small block takes a 10.5" and the big block takes a 11" i believe. i only used the "three finger" pressure plates as i never liked the "diaphram" design (which was "new" in 1970). that Schaifer 10.5 clutch disc and 3 finger PP stood up to a years worth of "high school driving" (because i was a high school student at the time). EVERY weekend i was doing 3500 dead stop burn outs with this car and "power shifting" at 6k in every street race.

as i said, i just don't know how parts hold up these days. i know 47 years ago, when you got a heavy part in a cardboard box from the "Mopar parts man", that part was almost bullet proof.
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Hyup, had me one of those too. But the tires back then were um........not very good.
My CF has withstood the test of time. The -II disc has tremendous holding capabilities,IMO. But can be hard on parts.
Let YR talk you into a soft-loc
 
AJ/FormS said:
Hyup, had me one of those too. But the tires back then were um........not very good.Let YR talk you into a soft-loc
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well.. i'm going to be putting Cooker "retro" redlines on this car - probably only 6-7" wide. so traction is going to be a joke - just like it was 47 years ago with the "bias-belt" tires we had back then. now... and this is a bit emarassing but you are talking to "an old guy" that has a "flip phone", doesn't "text" or "tweet" - what is a "soft-loc"?
 
Well, according to YellowRose it the best thing since sliced bread.
It is a type of adjustable clutch that you can tune for your application. IMO,overkill for most of us. But your combo might be able to take advantage of it.
I don't know about you, but destroying Cokers, for me, would get old in a hurry, so I would be looking into a traction aid of some kind. I mean of what use is a 6-pac, if you can't open them all up for fear of climbing the boulevard, or getting too-far sideways and eating a guardrail, or worse;destroying your car,or worse;someone else's, or worse;people get hurt.
I've been thru that with just a 367; spinning out, climbing boulevards, slamming into curbs, hitting immovable objects, etc. And the problem was always not enough tire. Or I guess one could say,too much engine for the chassis. And this with just a 367. 295s more or less cured this behavior. Well,I guess I mellowed out a little in the last 17 years,too.
But yeah I heard YR make some good arguments for the Soft-loc clutch.If my pockets were deeper, and I didn't already have the CF, I would look into it.
 
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jimharvard said:
well.... i am "restoring" this car. the car is going to have a 440, just like the factory M cars; it is going to have the same body structure, just like the factory M cars; it's going to have the same EXACT interior as the original cars. it's going to have a 8 3/4 rear diff. and a 3:91, just like the factory M cars. i'm going to paint it Vitamin C orange which was offered when the original M cars were produced. i do not think there were any "special" colors offered for the M cars only. i think all the 69 Plymouth colors were available. Big Block Dave here at FABO might know that answer - he's the "M-Code guru" here.

really, the only things that are going to be different on this m car vers all the others is that mine will be a 4 speed and will have a six pack carb setup. the work AMD did on the body panels is exactly like factory. they have a $25k portable spot welder that they bought just to re-create factory spot welds. AND, AMD put all the panels on at the original factory attachment/weld locations. there are no "mid-panel" welds on this car. so unless you knew the history of this car, you could not tell that it was once a cut up drag car. i have spent a lot of money to achieve this result.

again, i DID NOT want a "drag car" M-Code Cuda. i wanted a "factory" M-Code that was a bit more unique than all the others and a car that i could "shift gears" while driving. as far as i know, i think there are at least 200 or more "original" M-Code 69 Cudas out there. other than the paint color, they are all the same. my car will be a truely unique "M-Code."

so that's the deal...
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The best to you Sir!

Hope you do not do anything that cannot be easily undone. Like me You put a large expense in the car! I understand the desire for fun and attacked my 383 car much the same but in a way that easy bolt on changes can be corrected with limited expense overall. The budget dictated that! I now have a correct oil pan and working on wheel changes that will get me closer!

Have fun with it!
 
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