how much power out a 360

[abodyjoe]

While stroking a engine is a great way to increase cubes, the result is more in line with big torque rather than HP.

isn't that what you want for a street car? torque is where its at for a street car.

 

[HemiPar]

well me for one will just have to keep an eye on this tread. I will be building my motor in a few YEARS and I am thinking the same combo as 400hp 360.

 

[OldVart]

isn't that what you want for a street car? torque is where its at for a street car.


Joe, that's exactly what you need on the street - torque. I've always been of the understanding that you build TORQUE from the engine, and HORSEPOWER from your heads.

 

[Altamont]

71dustar,

The rebuilt trans alone is $795 for the 23 spline and $1795 for the 18 spline.
He put together an entire package for us as were changing over from a 904.

www.passonperformance.com

 

[340srule]

Originally Posted by dgc333
You can build an awfully stout 408 stroker for that kind of money.

Rebuildable core - $200
Block Machine work - $1000
Magnum R/T heads - $800
Stoker rotating assy - $1200
Roller Cam kit - $500
Intake - $250
Carb - $300
Miscellaneous - $300

Total -------------- $4550



And what in that price list above do you take exception too?


So in actuality you could do the stroker with quality parts and machine work for closer to $4300 and if you picked up as used carb and intake you could likely come in under $4000

And what kind of performance is that $4300.00 stroker going to give you??

 

[dgc333]

isn't that what you want for a street car? torque is where its at for a street car.

Folks, remember that an engine only generates torque. Horsepower is a mathematical function of how much torque is generated at a given rpm.

For example; Lets say an engine generates 500 ft-lbs of torque from 1000 rpm to 10,000 rpm (I know there is no engine like that but we could wish).

At;

1000 rpm it is making 95 HP
2000 rpm it is making 190 HP
3000 rpm it is making 285 HP
5252 rpm it is making 500 HP
8000 rpm it is making 761 HP
10000 rpm it is making 952 HP

If you notice that I used 5252 rpm instead of 5000. 5252 is the constant in the HP calculation from torque and rpm. At this point rpm point the constant and rpm cancel out and you have HP = Torque. This is true for every engine the horesepower and torque curves will always intersct at 5252.

Being that internal combustion engines do not have a totally flat torque curve it is better for a street car to have the torque curve favor the lower rpm range where the car is motly driven.

 

[Optik]

here's my build list....ALL labor done by myself except exhaust welding and trans rebuild (both done by my roommate, i helped and learned)...

-used barn-find 1964 Dodge Dart 170 2 dr hardtop, 52000 miles - $2000 (could have paid less but seller was a good friend with a baby on the way so i didn't mind)

-used 360/A999 combo 77,000 miles -- $505 *delivered* off ebay

-new rod, main, and cam bearings -- ~$65

-used Holley Street Dominator intake -- $75 off ebay

-1.6 ratio aluminum adjustable roller rockers -- $119 off ebay

-machine work on stock heads (clean up, hardened seats, 3 angle valve job, install new valvesprings matched to cam) -- $300 including cost of valve springs

-edelbrock 650 cfm elec. choke carb - $269

-lunati bracket master cam/lifter kit 280/280 adv. duration, .480 lift (.512 with rockers) - $75 (dusty box discount @ local speed shop)

-vintage cal-custom finned valve covers - $10 at swap meet

-chrome air cleaner -- free

-hedman shorty headers - $119

-new fuel pump, water pump, alternator, plugs, wires, oil filter, fluids, etc -
~$175

-2400 stall custom built torque converter - $149

-trans rebuild kit, Transgo shift kit, b&m Starshifter - $175

-used 8.75" a-body rear axle, all new brake parts, gear oil, u-bolts, shock plates, hijacker air shocks - $750 total

-3 hours total dyno time - $150

-4" bolt pattern slot mags - free

-4 new tires - $200

-msd 6al and blaster coil (used) - $50

-pair of flowmaster 40 mufflers (used), two exhaust cut-outs (used) - $50

-6 2.5" j-bends and two 6ft 2.5" straight tubes - $100

-drop steering link and pushbutton-delete trim plate - $100

-radiator re-core - $200

so thats a grand total of $5686, lets call it $5700 dollars and a year of build time (nights and weekends), to have a head-turning and reliable daily driver that eventually dyno'ed at an estimated 322hp and 367 torque at the crank. dont' forget that that cost includes the car!!!!!! not bad, i think, although it still needs some rust repair and disc brakes. also i'm not including the money i spent on new brakes for the 7.25 rear that i broke about two weeks later.

I would think for 5 large you could be building well into 500+ hp. how about a turbo kit or supercharger setup? dollar for dollar, a turbo is the best horsepower bang for the bucky and i think a well-planned and sourced build could get you to the 600-700 hp level at your budget and still be very reliable for daily driving. the key is having patience and not rushing out and spending all your money in a "gotta have it NOW" mentality. take your time and find the stuff you need on ebay or racingjunk.com for cheaper, wait for the best deals to come along, and don't be afraid to use used parts *where appropriate*(intake, dressup, etc). if your making big horsepower your gonna need to beef up the rest of the driveline to match.

good luck with your project, please post lots of pictures.
-tim

 

[rumblefish360]

whats the max power out of a 360 with all the options? or would it be easier after a certain horsepower to go big block?

2 questions here.

Max power with all the options...... You wallet isn't deep enough to go there.

When to go big block? Now if you don't mind the extra weight up front. It's not that bad, but you'll notice the difference!

i would like an all around engine that can make over 400 horse but that if i get sick of the power and want more i can swap out parts and make more.

What Thanson said. What I said minus roller cam.

Burntorange70 400-500 hp should be EZ with a stroker

Should be a no-brainer with a 318. Nevermind a stroker.

400 hp can be had with a zero deck pistoned engine (KB107's) OOTB Edel. heads and RPM intake with regular headers. Cam (Isky Mega Hyd.) size at a advertised 270 or 221 @ .050 w/.465 lift.

This mild mill made 408 HP @ 5700 rpm, 434 lbs. @ 4300 rpm.

 

[Thrashard340]

And what kind of performance is that $4300.00 stroker going to give you??

In Dustar's 1st post he said he is using the car primarily for street with occasional track use. It is in contrast to what you have. You call your car a "street car", but it isn't. It may be "streetable" but how often do you "drive" it in the street? More than 50%? Do you commute in it? You're point is moot. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Stroker or not, $5000 will get you to 400HP.

 

[71dustar]

i do plan on taking my time with this engine since it'll be my first and getting parts along the way instead of all at once so i do change my mind to switch heads or cams or style early on i wont be wasting money.

zero decked engine means milling engine to where the pistons will be flush at top?

also what would be my options after i have the engine complete if i go rumblefish's way with zero deck engine and if i were to go stroke engine?

 

[crackedback]

zero decked engine means milling engine to where the pistons will be flush at top?

Correct.

The block is decked to a level where the piston, when at top dead center, is level with the deck surface. "In the hole" is the distance the piston sits below the deck surface. I have one engine that the piston is .003 out of the hole and I'll take care of any piston to head clearance with gasket thickness. Probably a .045" thick gasket.

Once you build the engine to a particular stroke, you really can't just pull the crank out and toss in a stroker set up. It needs to be re-machined to get the wear patterns of the bore from the older std stroke set up. You need to build it the way you want to start. If you want to stroke it, then start with that shortblock. You can always upgrade heads, cam, intake later.

Nothing wrong with a nice 360 as plenty run real good.

 

[mopar1962]

Im going againt the grain here saying using an old 400 block, 230 or 630 and a 383 steel crank.use the standard 906 heads,5 angle valve job ,standard valves, standard rods with arp bolts,a hyd lunati voodoo cam #305 ,533 .552 242 and 252 @.050 , dual plane weiand with center divider cut down 3/4 of an inch, 1 inch spacer 850 holly ,1 7/8 hooker sc headers 3.5 collector top it off with a final compression ratio of 10.0 to 1 and you got460 to 500 streetable hp a sip of 110 and full it up on 93 way overlooked combo, 400 doesnt need to be stroked to go fast, standard stroke and bore are more than adequate for any sensible street car.

 

[mopar1962]

kb hypers haha, sorry

 

[dgc333]

And what kind of performance is that $4300.00 stroker going to give you??

Easy mid 400's of horsepower. The MP 408 stroker is rated at 435HP and all the MP crate motors dyno at more than they are rated. The 360/380 HP motors dyno in the 400-415 HP range. What I have described is basically the same as the MP 408 crate motor.

FWIW, the 360 I built uses stock magnum heads, Eagle rods, Comp flat tappet cam, KB107 pistons, ARP fasteners, Fel-Pro gaskets, Clevite bearings, Cloyes timing set, CrossWind intake. All quality parts and the machine work was done at a local race machine shop as I mentioned before. I tore down and did the assembly. I have approximately $2500 in that engine which includes the purchase of the rebuildable engine core. This engine with a 600 cfm vacuum secondary carb is making approximately 370 HP based on 102 mph trap speeds in the 1/4 and I have put 20,000 miles on it since installing it in 05.

You don't have to speed a ton of money to build a stout durable small block for a street car.

 

[windsordeath]

Not trying to hijack....cause i just got a 78 d150 adventurer with a good donor 360 4bbl and I'm shooting for the same target 400 horse street smallblock so I'm quietly following along, Could someone tell me what part no. heads are on this motor? also the comp. ratio?

 

[jysnflem]

About 3 years ago I purchased a 415 stroker short block assembly from Indy Cylinder Head for $2950. Block machined internal balance 4.00" cast crank. SIR rods and Weisco protru dish pistons for pump gas. Short block is put together by them. They told me with Edelbrock heads about 450 HP. You'll have to buy a heads, cam,intake, timing chain etc.. Now this car has seen a lot of street driving in the motorcity in 3 years and I counted 100 time slips last year from the past years. Car runs 11.50 and is still running great. If you have to pay someone to build it go with them. You'll be very happy. That block doesn't have really expensive parts in it and you don't need it for 450 HP. That's just my opinion. Jysnflem

 

[rumblefish360]

i do plan on taking my time with this engine since it'll be my first and getting parts along the way instead of all at once so i do change my mind to switch heads or cams or style early on i wont be wasting money.

zero decked engine means milling engine to where the pistons will be flush at top?

also what would be my options after i have the engine complete if i go rumblefish's way with zero deck engine and if i were to go stroke engine?

Make a plan and stick to it.

My KB107's needed no block milling. Your block may need it.

If you decide to stroke it later, you'll need new pistons. And then you'll go from there to see what needs to be done.

 

[71dustar]

ok that clears up a lot cuz i was still confused on if i could switch between stroking or zero decking. i'll have to make a list of what i really want and then work towards that.

what are good companies to get stroker kits from?

im assuming that kb pistons and eagle cranks are the best of the best (or atleast best bang for the buck). any other companies i should look at for parts?

 

[thanson_mopar]

what are good companies to get stroker kits from?

im assuming that kb pistons and eagle cranks are the best of the best (or atleast best bang for the buck). any other companies i should look at for parts?

scat, callies, mopar performance, eagle all make stroker cranks. Cast and Forged.

KB is not near the most expensive pistons, but they are a good bang for the buck. I used KB hyperutectic pistons in my 360 (powerforged i think is what they are called?) ill have to look at the box again. the hyperutectics are alot lighter than the forged speed pros i was going to use. I like them alot, definitly worth the money. My engine kit was around 750.00 which came with pistons, bearings, gaskets, oil pump ect.....