Hyd. TOB Kiesler- Any News?

[jahsh]

Has anybody heard of the status of Kiesler starting up product of their Hyd. TOB setup for the 833? I heard reports that they were close to putting back into production, but haven't heard much in awhile.

 

[lilcuda]

The last email I got from Gene at Keisler was on May 14th. He says by late summer they should have them. So I figure at the earliest, it will be next spring, given Keisler's history.

My friend has gathered some parts to try to make his own. If it works, I'm going to do the same thing as him. He has everything, but his trans is apart. As soon as it goes back in the car, he will test out these parts. He also has a Centerforce clutch, so if it works for him, it will work for me.

I remember now that I promised you a picture of the clutch fork in my car since it's shorter. I don't know if it will help you, but I try to get one this weekend.

 

[jahsh]

Thanks, Lee. Say again what current exhaust setup you are using with the z-bar and clutch setup?

Can you give details on what parts your friend is using? I might be in a similar situation to try and test things out - I also have a CF clutch - so this is very interesting. 1) option I'm toying with is to just sell the CF clutch and get all the parts that McCloud can supply.

At this point, I just want a running car!!!! Am about to say the heck with it all and put on the 340 manifolds =)

 

[lilcuda]

Thanks, Lee. Say again what current exhaust setup you are using with the z-bar and clutch setup?

Can you give details on what parts your friend is using? I might be in a similar situation to try and test things out - I also have a CF clutch - so this is very interesting. 1) option I'm toying with is to just sell the CF clutch and get all the parts that McCloud can supply.

At this point, I just want a running car!!!! Am about to say the heck with it all and put on the 340 manifolds =)

I'm using a later 318 manifold port matched to a 340 gasket connected to a 2 inch headpipe that goes between the torsion bar and the frame rail. Under the floorboards, it changes from 2" to 2 1/4". I don't have the headpipe or manifold installed right now. I'll get a photo of it when I do. I'm attaching a couple photos of the z-bar and throwout fork. Please ingnore the cobwebs. The car has been on jackstands for a while now.

I'll have to get the details on what parts he bought. I'll get back to you.

 

[fstfish66]

i will try to get some info from keislier at chrysler at carlisle this weekeknd,,

i

 

[jahsh]

i will try to get some info from keislier at chrysler at carlisle this weekeknd,,

i

Any chance you were able to talk with Kiesler?

 

[fstfish66]

yep i talked with some one at keislier,,,nothing for 833 mopar trans yet,,i dont think they are intrested in that,, i think they want to sell the tremec,,,

they had a scatter shield there marked 340 / 360 i asked the guy,,, are you sure this is for the LA engine or the new 5.7 ?? he asked why am i asking that,,,i replied the starter is on the passenger side on this bell housing,,the LA engine starterr is on the drivers side,,,,he replied,, you are the only one so far to see that,,,he tells me its a ford scatter shield,,,not a mopar,,,the mopar bell housings arent ready yet,,, comne to a all mopar show,,no mopar parts,, and mark a ford part mopar,,

i know a guy with a street rod,,340 stick,,,factory style fork and throw out bearing,,,he is using a jeep hyd slave cylinder,,,and a wilwood hyd master cylinder,, all he had to do was make a bracket to bolt the jeep hyd slave cyl to the bell housing,,says its worked great for years,,,hope that may help you out,,,feel free to e mail me if you like [email protected]

 

[lilcuda]

OK. My friend got his trans back together and started tinkering with the parts he got (they are from Tilton, by the way). The TO bearing looks great, so does the bearing retainer, however, the bearing retainer is the wrong size. The bolt circle is too big for his trans. Hopefully, he will post pics here.

The guy he spoke to at Tilton claimed there was only one size bearing retainer. He was informed that this was incorrect. Supposedly, he will forward the info to the production guys, but doesn't anticipate that they will make any other size since they think there is little demand. Here's where we come in. Everyone with any a body who wants a hydraulic clutch linkage needs to call Tilton and ask about it. If they get enough calls, maybe they will do something!

As far as Keisler is concerned, they can take a flying leap. Don't call them, don't give them any money. They don't deserve it!

 

[fstfish66]

what type of tilton bearing are you talking about ??? that you need a bearing retainer cover ????

i use a tilton hyd bearing,,its nascar style,,,4 bolt pedestal mount,,drilled in the the scatter shield,,and a tilton master cyl,,,,i have had ok luck with it for the better part of 10 years,,,i am now having problems,,,some place in that area,,i will not have time to look at it till spring of 08 when i start to redo some of this car,, just wondering what type of tilton you are talking about ??
a hyd bearing or a standard bearing and a hyd slave cyl ???? thanks

 

[jahsh]

Regarding Tilton - Yeah, I ran into the same problem - For some reason they only thing mopar makes big block engines with the big block size bolt pattern bearing retainer. I talk to some guys on Moparts and they said Tilton did make some for the small block size a long time ago, but there wasn't a large demand.

Regarding what we are talking about- I myself am just looking for a solution to use a hydraulic clutch style TOB. I'd like to not use a slave cylinder, but at this point not many other options are open. McCloud makes a unit, but they say it doesn't work with the centforce clutch. I think might next step might be to sell much clutch and by a McCloud - along with their Hyd. TOB. At this point, only other option is a slave cylinder.

 

[fstfish66]

hers the current problm with mcloud clutchs,,,there clutchs DO NOT fit any other fly wheel,,last time i talked with them,,,they were getting ready to release some new clutch stuff with a adapter ring that will allow any fly wheel,,they were hearing to many guys say i already have a fly wheel why should i buy another,,,it should be out on the market by now,,but not even close to a center force price,,so ive been told,,,the problem is,,,B&M bought out rec mcloud..and every day they change there mind,,one day they tell red,, get this project worked out,,the next day they tell him do this project now,,they told me the mopar stuff always gets pushed aside,....i am also going to look into the mc loud hyd bearing and clutch,,when i start over the winter or spring,.,,here is a contact at mcleod fred taylor,tech assistant,
( 714 )630-2764 ext 236 [email protected] let us know what you find out

 

[lilcuda]

hers the current problm with mcloud clutchs,,,there clutchs DO NOT fit any other fly wheel,,last time i talked with them,,,they were getting ready to release some new clutch stuff with a adapter ring that will allow any fly wheel,,they were hearing to many guys say i already have a fly wheel why should i buy another,,,it should be out on the market by now,,but not even close to a center force price,,so ive been told,,,the problem is,,,B&M bought out rec mcloud..and every day they change there mind,,one day they tell red,, get this project worked out,,the next day they tell him do this project now,,they told me the mopar stuff always gets pushed aside,....i am also going to look into the mc loud hyd bearing and clutch,,when i start over the winter or spring,.,,here is a contact at mcleod fred taylor,tech assistant,
( 714 )630-2764 ext 236 [email protected] let us know what you find out

Why don't McCleod clutches fit other flywheels? Can you be more specific? I have a Centerforce clutch on a McCleod flywheel, so other clutches fit their flywheels.

The reason I have a Centerforce is the McCleod clutch I originally had in the car was way too stiff for me. My knee was killing me and the firewall flexed so bad that the entire instrument panel would move toward me about 3/4 of an inch every time I pushed in the clutch.

I still need to post the pix of the Tilton bearing retainer just for reference purposes. Although it sounds like jahsh has already investigated this possibility.

I wonder how much it would cost to have a small bolt pattern bearing retainer machined to work with the Tilton bearing?

 

[sweatybetty]

i know a guy with a street rod,,340 stick,,,factory style fork and throw out bearing,,,he is using a jeep hyd slave cylinder,,,and a wilwood hyd master cylinder,, all he had to do was make a bracket to bolt the jeep hyd slave cyl to the bell housing,,says its worked great for years,,,hope that may help you out,,,feel free to e mail me if you like [email protected]

could you get some more info on this? theres millions of jeeps out there so it seems this may be a way to go. my jeep has 105k miles on the original clutch. if the bearin retainer o.d. id the same, a bracket would be simple enough.

 

[jahsh]

Regarding using the Tilton unit - I think it could still be done with some fabrication and juggling of parts - including a possible new bellhousing. I asked the question awhile ago on Moparts and got this recommendation:

'part number P4529695 is a 4.8" retainer that will bolt up to your existing transmission but the the only easy way to get a 4.8" hole bellhousing is to use a Lakewood scattershield. You could also use your existing retainer with the Lakewood ring that goes over the 4.35 retainer and has an outside diameter of 4.8". I don't know if this will work but you could use 5.125" retainer for the small 307 bearing(used on A-230 3-spd V-8 trucks)f and use an overdrive bellhousing--cheap way out if it will work.'

Also here is another thread I started with some info on the Tilton:
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads...swer&Number=3226402&Searchpage=1&Main=3226402

 

[lilcuda]

Modifying an existing 10.5" bellhousing for a larger bearing retainer is easily done by a competent machine shop with a mill. I did it for Mike Ritz's Team Starfish Barracuda about 10 years ago when I worked in a machine shop. All we did was bore the hole in the bell housing bigger to match the larger retainer. The one thing we missed initailly was clearancing for the retainer bolts, but that was an easy fix, too.

But in order to use the bigger retainer, you need to to get a tranny case with the larger bearing, so a trans rebuild is necessary (at least transferring internal parts, if they are all good).

So it sounds like the fix is to get a case, swap your tailshaft,etc. and machine your bellhousing for the larger retainer. I might look into doing that. This is assuming that there is no interference between the CF clutch weights and the Tilton TOB.

 

[jahsh]

But in order to use the bigger retainer, you need to to get a tranny case with the larger bearing, so a trans rebuild is necessary (at least transferring internal parts, if they are all good).

So it sounds like the fix is to get a case, swap your tailshaft,etc. and machine your bellhousing for the larger retainer. I might look into doing that. This is assuming that there is no interference between the CF clutch weights and the Tilton TOB.

Do you know what the bolt circle diameter for the standard a-body early case is? Is it 3.7". If so, I think this retainer would work.
http://www.partsformydodge.com/Products/part_detail_1888_271093.html

 

[lilcuda]

Do you know what the bolt circle diameter for the standard a-body early case is? Is it 3.7". If so, I think this retainer would work.
http://www.partsformydodge.com/Products/part_detail_1888_271093.html

Yes, the a-body case has a 3.7" BC. But that won't work with the Tilton bearing. The Tilton bearing threads onto their own retainer and has a tab where a bolt holds it from spinning. I'll attach a couple of pictures. They're a little blurry, but you'll get the idea. I need to get photos of the bearing, too. My friend had brought the Tilton bearing retainer to work to ship it back and I had to snap some quick photos before he shipped it.

Also, here's a page on BBD that's a good reference.

http://www.bigblockdart.com/techpages/4sptech.shtml

Lee

 

[kingcuda]

hers the current problm with mcloud clutchs,,,there clutchs DO NOT fit any other fly wheel...

???

I have a McLeod clutch on my regular mopar flywheel.

 

[lilcuda]

My buddy got an email from Tilton. They told him they have no intention of making a bearing retainer for the smaller bolt circle. They say there is no market for it. They do have a blank retainer that you can have machined. We're exploring ideas such as having one of those machined or swapping cases & modifying the bellhousing, which is probably the best way to go.

 

[jahsh]

My buddy got an email from Tilton. They told him they have no intention of making a bearing retainer for the smaller bolt circle. They say there is no market for it. They do have a blank retainer that you can have machined. We're exploring ideas such as having one of those machined or swapping cases & modifying the bellhousing, which is probably the best way to go.

Hmm - you would think it wouldn't be too difficult to machine the correct holes into a un machined unit. Am I wrong?

 

[fstfish66]

yes,, it sounded weird to me also,,,the tech and red,,at mcleod told me there current cluth stuff doent work with other fly wheels,,and that they have a new unit about to hit the streets,,now maybe an older,,heavy pressure plate fits,, i do not know ,,all i know is when i talked with them at an event,,,about the hyd throw out bearing they build,,which is the same unit keislier WAS using,,they told me that hyd throw out bearing doesnt work with the center force stuff,,because the bearing is to big in diameter and interferes with the weights on the fingers on the center force unit,,

so we got in to a conversation,about there clutch,and hyd bearing,,there bearing is a nice set up,,so i will look more in to it as i start my rebuild,,all tho im watching this post to see whats going on,,,that tilton bearing retainer looks kool,,if they sell that blank retainer,,, i bet if you called brewers,,they would make it fit your tranny if it was possible,,i currently use a tilton hyd bearing,,it is a nascar style unit,,it has nothing to do wit hthe bearing retainer,,it uses a 4 bolt foot,,i drilled in to the scatter shield,used counter sunk bolts,,it has been fine up untill now,,,almost 10 years in the car 7000 miles,, i havent torn it apart yet to see whats wrong with it, ,,,it may just be the master cyl,,,,keep up posted on who has what,,,please,,,

oh and does any one know the name of the company that is making scatter shield/ bell housing for the tremec bolt pattern,,they make chevy ford,,and mopar is now out,,,but i couldnt catch there name,,,

 

[fstfish66]

sorry for the double post,,, a thought i had reguarding mc leod not fitting other fly wheels,,,it may be the style clutch i was asking for,,,i asked for a clutch that was easy on the legg,,but enough to match the center force clamping pressure,,they have one comming that is a little over 9 inch diameter,,but a dual disk,,suppost to be easy on the legg,,,but not on your wallet,,compared to center force,, they told me jegs/summit around 700.00 for clutch and pressure plate,,

 

[lilcuda]

Hmm - you would think it wouldn't be too difficult to machine the correct holes into a un machined unit. Am I wrong?

It wouldn't, provided your machinist knows what he is doing. The only problem is that the Tilton unit has threads where the bearing threads on. It might be difficult to get that right. I think the amount of hours involved to machine a retainer would be more expensive than swapping cases & machining the bellhousing. Here's photos of the bearing itself and the bearing monted on the retainer.

 

[jahsh]

Those are great pictures. I'm wondering if we could get them to machine the thread, but not the mounting holes?

 

[lilcuda]

Those are great pictures. I'm wondering if we could get them to machine the thread, but not the mounting holes?

Thanks! You can try contacting their custmer service department and see what they say about it. I wasn't in direct contact with them, I'm getting this info from my friend, so I don't know exactly what is and isn't machined on their "blank" bearing retainer.