Hypocrites......
- Thread starter inkjunkie
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magnumdust
Well-Known Member
Ironically, its the atheists that tend to have a deeper understand of christianity than the followers. As most religious people have it shoved down their throat from birth and never stop to consider the religion.
if you really had just the slightest understanding of Christianity...you would drop to your knees and beg Him (that would be Jesus Christ, I know...you're new) to enter your life.
magnumdust
Well-Known Member
Well you can be condescending and avoid everything i said, but it just shows me that you have no rebuttal to any of the valid points i posted early.
The irony is, when people spend a lot of time(with an open mind) understanding christianity...they're made stronger atheists. Only those predisposed to their religion find their holy book convincing. Which isnt shocking, if you read a book on anything you already believe in, you're gonna come off feeling more justified in your views.
Imagine a book titled "mopar", it says everything about mopar(goods and bads). And you're diehard with your mopar love...think you'll be honest? or focus in on what validates your view already?
That is what happens on the rare occasions when a christian reads the bible. They turn to the stuff that makes them feel good. Not the crazy stuff that might make them think twice(you know, stoning children to death, god sending bears to murder children for making fun of a bald man, etc)
inkjunkie
Well-Known Member
I avoid confrontation for a different reason......Bi-Polar, mixed severe with Psychotic tendencies...I am always 95% of the way to the fight or flight zone. What a normal person just looks at as a part of life will send me into the fight or flight zone. It is far easier for me to walk away than to end up doing something that I will regret.....
Frankie
Member #9641
famous bob
mopar misfit
Too late.
HE WHO IS WITHOUT GUILT, CAST THE FURST STONE !!!
You got rocks in your pocket, and your brain!
Frankie
Member #9641
1968FormulaS340
Well-Known Member
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ga_M5Zdn4"]The Byrds - Turn! Turn! Turn! - YouTube[/ame]
let me make it simple, because it is....
Christianity is NOT about opening your mind.....it is about opening your HEART..to Jesus Christ
Anyone that has done it...their life is changed...for the better.
I really like discussing things with you....because THAT, is a mind opener!!
ramenth
Gratis persona
Really?
I grew up an atheist and studied the Bible with the supposed "open mind" of which you're speaking.
Your argument can be said the other way, as it's hardly read with an "open mind" in these instances, its read with the intent of using it to prove your own viewpoint. I used it several times in arguing with my Believing friends, just as you're trying to do now.
You're going into it based on your viewpoints. You're convinced it's not real and therefore, even as you read it, you're dismissing it as not real. Hardly an "open mind."
An open mind would suggest that you put all preconceived beliefs you. An atheist reading the Bible is hardly able to put his atheist beliefs behind him as he or she starts his study. That's not the supposed "open mind" of which you speak.
But thanks for proving my points about someone jumping on this thread as an excuse to bash someone else's religious viewpoints. You didn't disappoint.
he can't help it...he's a Progressive/Communist (I add the second part as a reminder of what their name was before the Communist Party changed its name to the Progressive Party....it does sound "forward"...doesn't it?)
rob_robinson87
Well-Known Member
I think you raise some good points, but let's look at it this way.
(The numbers are based off the statements above). Giving the limited space, I tried to keep these simple and direct.
1. I'm a parent. As I parent, I try to teach my children the skills and attitudes to make it through life. I also teach them values. However, since they are human, they will make mistakes. They will sometimes choose to follow or not follow our rules and expectations. As a good parent, it is my responsibility to hold them accountable for their actions. Interpret that as "punishment" if you will. That doesn't mean I don't love them. That means I love them enough to direct them in the direction they need to go no matter the consequences. Unfortunately, I will not be able to protect them from their own actions. That is their free will. They murder- they will pay consequences. They steal, they will pay consequences. It isn't a reflection of my love not to "bail them out." I will love them no matter what. Sometimes that love will cause me to hurt when they do wrong. God provides direction and a way to redemption. Those are the rules and expectations. Everyone has a free will to follow or not follow those rules. Choosing another path (to death as we believe) is just that, a choice. Trying to make excuses not to follow the rules doesn't make the rule wrong.... Calling Christianity petty or what you want doesn't make it true- it is just your opinion.. we can accept you have one of those.
2. Hmm.. history books are full of stories. Just because we weren't there and witness it for ourselves doesn't mean it didn't happen. Most of science's theories (and they are theories because we weren't there) of the creation of the universe is based off left behind evidence. The stories in the Bible are our evidence. Remember, these are letters, diaries, historical recordings, etc. all collected from different people at different places. These have been put together in a book to emphasize the history and commonality of those accounts. History buffs marvel how the stories still match up. To the Christian, that is more evidence that proves that the situations did occur.
3. Forgiving is not forgetting or trusting again.. There are people locked in jail for murder that are forgiven by the families, but they do understand there are still consequences to those actions. Forgiveness comes from the heart and most of the time does not benefit the one that commits the action. It is letting go of something that separates you from the peace that God can provide. We can't forgive if we don't have the willingness and power provided to us to forgive. Jesus, being perfect, can provide that power- power that alone we may never be able to imagine. He is our example. His ways are past our own understanding.
4. Children are not taught they are not good. They are taught they are sinners. There are people on this earth that do good things every day. However, those people still do bad things on occasion (some of us more than others). We are all sinners. Dates back to the original example of Adam and Eve being told to do one thing and breaking that trust and doing something else. Children need to know they are not perfect and need to know that they are loved anyways. That is the teaching. They need to know forgiveness and love- sometimes a forgiveness that only a perfect entity can provide (because we as humans fail at it all the time). Proper parenting will teach children that they WILL disappoint, they WILL make mistakes (I don't know anyone who hasn't). Even though you will screw up, you are loved anyways whether you accept that love or not.
5. I don't worship torture. The killing of my savior was horrific, but it also demonstrates what a true savior will do for his people. I respect and I love the Christ that laid down his life to save my soul. The focus on the death of Christ (and most importantly of His Rising) emphasizes and reminds me personally that I could never accomplish what He did for us. It reminds me of my shortcomings but also encourages me to strive harder in my life here on earth so I can be that light to a very selfish world in which we live. It reminds me of a gift that I can never repay and I just must accept as is.
I look at it this way. Think of me for a moment as a starving individual. Then someone gives me a box- we will call it a gift because I didn't ask or pay for it- it was just offered to me. That gift is food to my body that would keep me from dying... I can choose two directions- accept the gift and live, or ignore the gift and die. That is my choice. For those of us that accept the gift that God has provided to us- the life of his Son, a perfect individual that paid the price for our sins, we know we can never "pay that back" in the same way because we aren't perfect and we are sinners. We have to accept it. It isn't God's fault, or Jesus' fault if we don't.
I have been told I was an idiot for believing in Christ. That is fine, that is an opinion. But, I'm not placed on this earth to please you. Really, I would much rather believe in Him and live my life to try to reflect His love and compassion to those around me and make this world just a little more pleasant. Who knows, if I am wrong and their isn't anything else past this life, well, maybe I brought a little more happiness to this world before I left it... but if I am right, and their is more, I don't want to be one of those that is left being told, "I provided you a way and you should have accepted my gift."
magnumdust
Well-Known Member
the bold: Yeah, that's another reason its bad for you. It makes a point to suppress thought and ram unsubstantiated beliefs down your throat. Making for people who live by and push tenants on to others with no basis and in some cases live less of a life than they could otherwise.
rob_robinson87
Well-Known Member
One of the best reference sites that does cover a lot of issues for those that believe. Since it is written and maintained by humans, it does have flaws. However, well composed and a good reading and reference for any questions related to the topic of God and faith.
http://www.godandscience.org/
With that said, thanks for the discussion.
http://www.godandscience.org/
With that said, thanks for the discussion.
magnumdust
Well-Known Member
To 1.: If your God forgives virtually everything, how has it provided any direction at all. Its just given the kid a "get out of jail free card" for any wrong doing the anything.(this is proven by the fact that christians have the same basic rate of crime as any other religious group...except us non religious)
To 2. Yes, history books are full of stories. The thing is, we can support those stories with evidence that comes from other sources than the history books. The bible cannot. In fact, aside from the hoaxes, the current archaeology of the city of nazareth and the biblical dating would suggest that the "jesus of narazeth" would've existed before nazareth existed. Making it more likely that he's nothing more than a made up character in a story.
For example, the supposed resurrection. Zombies walked the streets when the character of jesus came back. If such an absurd thing happened, there would be one story of it. There would be thousands of people writing about because even today that would be the craziest thing imaginable. Yet, no supportive evidence of such a thing ever occurring.
And you might want to recheck yourself of those stories matching up, because the resurrection accounts do not match up.
to 3. That's all pretty much irrelevant to what i said. In the end it comes down to being able to do horrific things, be forgiven by the supposed deity, and not be tortured forever...be rational and think for yourself...be tortured.
to 4. Teaching a kid they are a sinner is the same as teaching them they're not good. You've taught the kid that despite how good they may be(as most kids are) they are not good enough as is and deserve to be sent to hell....that's simply disgusting. Original sin is nonsense. Say all this religious hoobidy haw is real, no one is responsible for ill-doing of their ancestors. If your grandfather murdered someone in cold blood, gets life in jail, but dies 2 days into his sentence. Should you have to take his place to make up for his "sin"? Of course not...because thankfully in the our sane world with secular laws. we realize how idiotic that is.
to 5. Oh i'm sure many many of the sacrificial religions found the killings awful, but they still worshipped the killings as being necessary for survival. Which is worshipping the murder of something. Christianity is exactly the same, except they exchanged actual killing for the killing of someone who likely never existed. Same effect, no blood/gore. Havent you ever seen someone just beam when they exclaim "Jesus died for your sins!" as though they're just ecstatic that(if the person existed) a group of people murdered and tortured him.
2nd to last paragraph: Still comes down to the base problem i have with christianity. You've described yourself as a "starving person" as though you need help. The problem is, that's not necessarily true at all. Christianity uses these tactics to make people feel bad about themselves so they'll entrench themselves in the dogma. Curiously, the dangerous cults of the world do the exact same thing.
Last bit, last paragraph: what if you die and at the "gates" is Allah? According to their religion, you'd be in deeper crap than i would be. Doesnt that worry you? Arent you concerned about how you're going to muslim hell? Or what of its the Jewish god? (if i remember correctly) you'd now spend eternity separated from that god...all because you the chose the wrong religion. This is the problem with having a belief as a safety net....you cant simultaneously belief in them all. There are thousands upon thousands of religions in the world and none of them have any more justification or evidence than the other.
rob_robinson87
Well-Known Member
You bring up good points. I'll be first to admit that I do not have all the answers. I am humble enough to admit that. That is why I go to church, Sunday school, and read what I can when I can to keep feeding my faith. The site I listed answers many of the questions you ask much better than I could ever attempt to answer and is on its own site where we don't have to take up large amounts of bandwidth here and go back and forth.
That brings up most of the other parts- faith. You ask if I worry, no. Honestly, I don't. I have seen God's hand in many aspects of my life- both in good situations and bad. That is evidence enough for me. If you read that site I provided and still stick to your beliefs that scripture has no support... well, honestly, I think you are missing something. But, again, that is just my opinion. Hopefully you can value my opinion and belief as much as I can value your opinion and lack of faith. Thanks again.
That brings up most of the other parts- faith. You ask if I worry, no. Honestly, I don't. I have seen God's hand in many aspects of my life- both in good situations and bad. That is evidence enough for me. If you read that site I provided and still stick to your beliefs that scripture has no support... well, honestly, I think you are missing something. But, again, that is just my opinion. Hopefully you can value my opinion and belief as much as I can value your opinion and lack of faith. Thanks again.
one of these days....you are going to have a "come to Jesus" moment in your life.....when He calls you....I pray you answer him.
Kirk out.
inkjunkie
Well-Known Member
You lost me......I thought your name is Denny?
adriver
Blazing Apostle
Well, if your religion says TO hurt people (the unbelievers?) and you do, where is the hypocracy? If, on the other hand, one is trying to undermine the Christian belief system by pointing out human failings, I would say the only hypocrite I should worry about on Sunday morning is myself.
One use of the word, which is often overlooked is being overly concerned about small things while overlooking the "weightier matters of the law" . Look that up.
One use of the word, which is often overlooked is being overly concerned about small things while overlooking the "weightier matters of the law" . Look that up.
I'm not ramming anything....or pushing anything. I just do not buy the BS your selling.
and that our whole problem, according to you, is we are just not as "enlightened" as you.
To be frank, I have had enough of the PC (Progressive/ Communist) crowd degregating my Savior, Jesus Christ, and His followers. I stand for Him....you make your own call, that's what I like about personal responsibility. I do not want to be judged by your actions...as a collective
So you do not believe...we get it. actually, we got it a loooong time ago
rob_robinson87
Well-Known Member
Where I get confused with the whole thing is where does your own value system come from? What defines good or bad to you? Yourself? Kinda like making your own rules huh? When is enough enough? I always wondered that...
SleeperScamp
Well-Known Member
One day we will all believe in God.. There are no atheist in hell..
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