Idle Issues...

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servicegroup

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Hey there, I have a 75 Duster with a 318. Carter 2 BBL Carb. Car has maybe been drove 50 miles in the past year. I finally got it to my new home ..TEXAS!!! She turn over nice but is seems to take 2 batteries before she will actually start. Today I decided to rebuild and go through the carb. Right after she started up pretty nice and i got the idle adjusted by the rpm screw. Mixture screws are now 2 1/2 turns out. It goes in gear with a nice idle, no stalls. After 2-3 minutes of perfect idle it dies. Starts right back up. Now, Before all this happened when i took it off the trailer i decided to take it around the block. Right at the powerband and WOT it backfires, sputs, spudders. If I ease into it it will do...Kinda ok. I havnt driven it after the carb rebuild because I notice im leaking at the thermostat gasket so that is what im working on right now.

Timing gear, chain, ignition,plugs were all replaced before i bought it little more than a year ago and it ran like a dream. Now ,.... not so much.

What am i missing?
 
fuel starved?? Bad pump or filter after sitting a year?? Check the basics first
Good Luck!
 
Thats what it sounds like. I pulled a plug and it looks like its been running lean.. I'll post up a pic. I cant find my pressure gauge. Wait.... Isn't it a mechanical fuel pump..? What psi am i looking for ? Fuel Filter wouldn't hurt... If i knew where it was.... Google here i come...
 
5-7 psi and slap a fresh filter on it. gas tank probably has plenty of crap in it with todays bad gas
 
Thats what it sounds like. I pulled a plug and it looks like its been running lean.. I'll post up a pic. I cant find my pressure gauge. Wait.... Isn't it a mechanical fuel pump..? What psi am i looking for ? Fuel Filter wouldn't hurt... If i knew where it was.... Google here i come...

Fuel filter should be between the pump and the carburetor.
 
Ok, got everything done and checked. Pressure was good and we now have a new filter. One main issue i think it the idle screw was set to low. Around 500... I got the idle to just under 900RPM. 860ish. Adjusted the carb and she will sit there and idle all day. Took it out and the same stuff... spitting spuddering, and dying on me every time i stopped. Occasional backfire. When cruising and it happens i lose power. Electrical power. Lights go off. everything. Just like i turned the key off. Something is shorting out seems like. I just got through fixing a short on my sierra. ( I lived in indiana with cornfields on all 4 sides of me and no neighbors. Lets just say the field mice love my cars.) So, im guessing same situation , but what? My other thought would be a weak coil going out. To me it seems mechanically I'm good. Electrically, not so much.
 
Sounds like the battery is flopping around and at least one terminal is loose. Or one of the wires on the back of the ammeter is loose. If you need to put a wrench back there, disconnect the battery first, or prepare to get electrocuted!
Heehee
 
Sounds like the battery is flopping around and at least one terminal is loose. Or one of the wires on the back of the ammeter is loose. If you need to put a wrench back there, disconnect the battery first, or prepare to get electrocuted!
Heehee


Im about to hit the sack. I turned out the lights in the shop and found a short. The choke wire is peeled way back and touching the linkage. I'm not saying that is going to solve everything but I got part of it straightened out. What is the ammeter? It's got an alt vs a starter. wouldnt the thing run even without the battery... I havnt tried...
 
Got everything buttoned up. Now the only time its cutting out is at WOT on the down shift. ....
 
that sounds like a carb issue. Momentarily lean. Depending on when exactly it happens, it could be the accelerator pump, or it's timing, or it's duration. Or it could be something else. I know,I know, that doesn't help you much; but you didn't give me much to work with.
 
that sounds like a carb issue. Momentarily lean. Depending on when exactly it happens, it could be the accelerator pump, or it's timing, or it's duration. Or it could be something else. I know,I know, that doesn't help you much; but you didn't give me much to work with.


No, you are fine.. I know it could be a multitude of things and you cant exactly fix it via the computer. You just gave me a great checklist to check. I have a timing light and honestly ive never checked it. Where should it be. As far as I know it only has a mild cam in it. Couldn't tell you specks or anything. I bought it this was and is mere here say. For all i know its a stock cam..LMAO.. Going to check now.
 
You need to keep in mind that there are all kinds of timing targets
-The most important is power timing. This is the timing that the engine will see when the engine is at full throttle, and fully loaded. If this timing is too much, bad things can happen to the engine. If it is too little, performance will be sluggish. If it comes in too early or too late, performance will suffer. The window of "sluggish" to "best" is quite small; perhaps as small as 4 to 5 degrees.Happily this power-timing has been worked out and refined by much smarter persons than me, to fall into an even narrower window of 2 to 4 degrees. So with that in mind I would suggest to set your maximum power-timing to 34* plus/minus 2*.
-Now the power-timing is the maximum that your distributor is able to provide, and that is with the vacuum advance system defeated. The maximum. Not how much it provides at a certain rpm, but the maximum period.
-So if you have a dial-back lite, let's get started. But if your lite is conventional, you will need to mark your dampener all the way out to 40 degrees, or perhaps 60* if you decide later to fiddle with the Vcan. Timing tapes are available to make this simple.If you decide to tape it, you ought to prove the TDC mark is true TDC...... So, rev it up, til the dizzy stops advancing, and set it to 34*BTDC. And then note the lowest rpm that the timing is still 34*.Call this the start point.
-Now after the power timing is set, the idle-timing could be way out to lunch.Not to worry, we'll get to that later.
-Also, be advised that not all teeners accept the aforementioned 34*. So a roadtest is next. The roadtest needs to be done at a low enough speed so as not to get a speeding ticket, but at a high enough rpm to ensure the timing is all in, and that the engine is well loaded. This is usually 2nd gear. But if you have 2.76 gears speeds could be as high as 70 to 80mph. Not good. So if you have highway gears, you will need to start the test in 1st gear. But things happen really fast in 1st gear, so if you have a long,straight, low-traffic hill, that would be best. This test is to find the detonation limit, of your FRESH FUEL,(of the type and grade that you will be using on an ongoing basis). Pick your test area and time carefully.
-So, here's the test.You will be accelerating briskly to about 200 to 300 rpm before the the "start point", at which time you will floor it.You will be listening intently for the tell-tale knocking sound.If you do not hear the knocking sound, you may continue the test at WOT, to 4000rpm or the speed limit, whichever comes first.If you hear knock during the test, get off the throttle.
-No knock, means success. Any knock at all needs to be dealt with.Do not be tempted to floor it right from the get-go.This test is not for that. We can get into that later.
You will also be watching for a carb lean-out during the test.If you feel the car accelerating briskly for a bit, then nose over, and feel it's rate of acceleration per time period is slowing, well, we will need to address that first. For this test to be valid, the fuel level in the bowl needs to be stable.
-Okay,Put the tranny in manual low, and it's go-time!
TTYL
 
Hard to tell... I tried to sand as much as the junk off as i could. Looks like 5 | 0 | 5
If thats the case then its 2.5* BTDC.
 
Would new pushrods cause the valves to be to tight? Non -Adjustable rockers here. I have set the timing as you mentioned. Same issue. Then I set it at around 8* BTDC little better. Ive got it back set as you mentioned and am done messing with ignition timing. It's set. I did pull the valve covers a while back and noticed a couple push rods bent. So, I replaced them all. It seems to have gone downhill since then but my timing may not be accurate. Runs smooth through all gears, idles well and runs as it should until you start to get into it. It will start surging/backfiring and doesnt clear up. let off the throttle and she runs fine.... I'm about to be done with it....
 
Final update: Just got back in again. Hooked the timing light up. Not to make adjustments but to observe. My mark will bounce 4-5 degrees every ten revolutions or so. Brand New Light. Something shorting out ignition? Where to I even start?

Let it run for about three minutes... It bounced a 5-6* (Towards more BTDC advance) bounce 5 times. Mainly withing the first minute and a half. The rest of the time my mark bouncing 2* back and forth constantly...
 
Did anybody ask about the fuel? Is it fresh? year old gas is practically syrup.
If the gas is not clear, that's clear, then it's old. If it's slightly yellow, it will burn,but be hard to start. If it's deep yellow to orange, it will idle if you pour enough through it, but run like crap under power, if you can even get it started. By the time it gets reddish, well, It will hardly stay burnning if you pour it on the cement floor, and hold a burning paper to it.
I thought I'd ask...............
 
Did anybody ask about the fuel? Is it fresh? year old gas is practically syrup.
If the gas is not clear, that's clear, then it's old. If it's slightly yellow, it will burn,but be hard to start. If it's deep yellow to orange, it will idle if you pour enough through it, but run like crap under power, if you can even get it started. By the time it gets reddish, well, It will hardly stay burnning if you pour it on the cement floor, and hold a burning paper to it.
I thought I'd ask...............

It was practically empty when I decided to bring it down to Texas. Off the trailer on the way home I filled it up. Ran another 30 miles or so. Then did the carb. I will go check color now.
I wasnt privileged enough to get a clear filter...

I will post a pic...
 
Look normal to me. Compared it to my Lawnmower gas and its the same... Pump is spitting fuel out in spurts. I assume this is normal for a mech pump
 

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I missed post #15,sorry.
A bouncy mark at idle is usually a sloppy chain. Try it again, but rev it up to 2400 or better, hold the rpm steady(use a fast idle step is easiest), and check for bouncy mark.
Or just rotate ,by hand, the crank. First go CCW from the front, them CW. Rock it back and forth a few times, and feel for the slack in the chain.It's easy to feel if it's worn out.I did read that it got a new chain a year ago.
But even if it is worn out, this is not your problem.

Here's a recap;
"After 2-3 minutes of perfect idle it dies.Starts right back up."
"Right at the powerband and WOT it backfires, sputs, spudders. If I ease into it it will do...Kinda ok."
"Took it out and the same stuff... spitting spuddering, and dying on me every time i stopped. Occasional backfire."
" I pulled a plug and it looks like its been running lean.."
"Got everything buttoned up. Now the only time its cutting out is at WOT on the down shift. ...."
"Runs smooth through all gears, idles well and runs as it should until you start to get into it. It will start surging/backfiring and doesnt clear up. let off the throttle and she runs fine.... I'm about to be done with it..."
I think this summarizes it.
I believe the fuel delivery is faulty. Either the fuel level is very low, or the main circuit is faulty.There is also a small possibility of valve problems.
The fuel level could be low because the pump is bad, or it's sucking air, or the delivery circuit is restricted, or the float level is wrong. The pump should be pumping solid fuel with no air bubbles in it. On Carter BBDs like yours?, it is possible to idle that teener with the top of the carb removed. If you contemplate this, be advised that there is a tremendous risk of fire. If you do this, you will be able to see the running fuel level and be able to watch for air bubbles. The teener/BBD should idle quite happily at 600 or so.There are safer ways to check this stuff, but this is fast.IF you choose the safer way, I would firstly check all the rubber lines in the fuel delivery circuit, especially the jumper at the back. The pump likes to suck air back there. Next I would do a fuel delivery test. This involves removing the fuel line from the carb, and sending the fuel into a clear jar of at least 1 qt capacity.The engine needs to be running for this test. While the jar is filling,the hose should remain at the bottom of the jar so that you can see any air bubbles. You will fill the jar about half way, and measure the time it takes, very accurately. Then you will measure the exact amount of fuel. Then with a little math, you will convert the numbers to pints per minute, and compare that to a standard. And finally you wil need to prove that the floatlevel has been correctly set.
Now if all that is good or made to be good, and the problem persists, then you will have to prove the main circuit in the carb is clear. Since it idles, and power delivery is good except at WOT, most of the carb is working, ie. the idle/transfers and metering rods, and bleeds. But My guess would be that one or both main wells under the mainjets are restricted.Since the car has a long history of sitting, I would just go here first.
But, on the off chance that a problem is not found here in the mainwells either, I would do a leakdown test, looking for valve sealing issues.Since you mentioned bent pushrods, there is a chance that some valves are sticking, or bent, or they are in some other way not quite sealing or intermittently not sealing.I mention this lastly cuz a valve seat sealing issue usually shows up pretty clearly at idle, and on a vacuum gauge, and you mention the engine not smoothing out until 900 or so rpm.
If you know me at all, I would do all these tests in reverse order. I would do an idle vacuum test at 600rpm, then the leakdown test,then the mainwell inspection, and finally fuel delivery test.Hyup that's how I would go.
Well, I should add that a severely restricted exhaust system could present pretty much all your symptoms too. .
 
Would someone please give that man a good carb and be done with it? :D

A tach can diagnose an ignition failure if you know what you are seeing and when.
If the tach drops off to nothing suddenly and it happens instantly as the motor power drops off then the ignition is probably dropping out.

The tach acts different when the fuel flow drops off because the electrical signal is still there for the tach to register rpm's.
It's hard to explain exactly, but the difference is noticeable how the tach acts during the stall out.
 
Would someone please give that man a good carb and be done with it? :D

A tach can diagnose an ignition failure if you know what you are seeing and when.
If the tach drops off to nothing suddenly and it happens instantly as the motor power drops off then the ignition is probably dropping out.

The tach acts different when the fuel flow drops off because the electrical signal is still there for the tach to register rpm's.
It's hard to explain exactly, but the difference is noticeable how the tach acts during the stall out.


I swear this car i jinxed... LMAO.. my tach is either shot or something is up. Went out for a bit this morning. The needle is erratic. Sometimes at 0 then to 2500 then 1100... All while the engine is idling fine... My gut tells me the tach is probably fine ... Maybe ill post up some vids on youtube if that helps....

I did check tach wires. All seem ok. Black and Red. Positive and Negative and Green to the Neg side of coil. I may put put the multimeter on the hot side and see if its shorting causing power loss...
 
OK, horribly stupid question. On my timing marks, it reads 5 | 0 | 5 . Now to get from 0-5 on my light dial it about 6 lines @ 2* scale on the light so 12 * on the light. Am, I correct for keeping this scale as 12* on my light equals 5* on the engine? I was just wondering because if i bought timing tape im not sure it wouldn match my scale on the engine... I'm sooooo confused...LMAO... Or should I got off the light and use the scale on the light as the "actual" and forget about the marks on the engine.
 
Can someone also direct me where the Mainwells in the carb are? I may as well get those sprayed out. I had it completely apart to rebuild it and sprayed every hole with no blockage. I'm wondering if there is something else i could have done.
 
What about the reluctor air gap inside the distributor?

Also check for excessive side to side play in the distributor shaft.
 
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