Ignition Help

[6slick4]

Ok, I've finished pulling the 318 out of my 1987' dodge truck today, going to clean it up and put on an aluminum intake and 4 barrel and tweak some other things before I drop it in the 64 barracuda.

Now to my question, obviously the 273 had points. What will I need to do to get it running using my original wiring. All the wiring in the car is in great shape. I do plan on upgrading but not just yet. I'm not very knowledgeable on electronic ignitions at all,especially putting an engine in a car that originally had points, so any help here will be greatly appreciated.

As far as the motor mounts and brackets go I have not decided if I will add a piece of metal the passenger side bracket that came off the 273 to be able to use it on the 318 or just order from schumacher. I'm curious to hear the experiences from other FABO members on both sides. What has been your experience with dealing with schumacher vs adding metal to the bracket. Has anyone that has added metal to the bracket had any welds break or crack and so on.

Thanks again for everybody's input. I hope to have it started and running before the end of spring.

 

[amx364]

I have had factory welds break before so... not a deal breaker. Look at converting to HEI add-on mods. I went with the factory electronic myself, for easy replacement parts.

 

[67Dart273]

Why would you need to fiddle with welding mounts? 273/ 318 should be a "bolt in."

Your biggest problem is going to be making a decision about the water pump/ timing cover. Your 273 pump should be on the opposite side from the 318. You'll either have to change the timing cover/ balancer/ pump to the 318, change the lower radiator outlet from side to side, or "rig" a hose to cross over underneath to the opposite side.

Ignition: More clear? about "getting it running?"

What do you have available for ignition parts?

original points distributor? You have a spare SB breakerless distributor? Is the ignition/ distributor you had in the pickup going back in?

1--If you have the 273 points dist and it's in good runnable shape, at least to get it fired and other troubles worked out, just toss the points dist in and hook it up

2--If you have a spare breakerless Mopar dist, buy yourself a 70's GM "big cap" HEI module, mount it on some flat metal with the heat sink "grease" and wire it up. Four wires

3--If you are not going to use the ignition out of the pickup? junking it ?? use the ignition out of it. Easy to carefully cut enough of the harness to get the ECU, the connector, and the distributor wires and connector.

Whether you run the Mopar unit or the GM HEI module, you can use most of your factory wiring. If you use your Mopar ECU, leave the ballast in place. If you are using the GM HEI module, jumper the ballast connectors together Hook the original coil + wire to the the coil+ wire just like it originally was. The Mopar ECU OR the GM HEI has one wire that goes to coil NEG. See below In the Mopar ECU diagram, all the wiring to the coil + is left in place. The wire at far top right labeled "new wire" is actually part of a junkyard pigtail going to the ECU connector

As you can see, one wire goes from the box to coil NEG, and the two going to the distributor are part of the harness

MAKE SURE if you use a GM module that you wire the distributor so the wires go to the connector as pictured. They are "polarity sensitive" to proper operation

What is NOT shown on the Mopar diagram is the brown start/ bypass wire, which hooks to the coil+ side of the ballast resistor.

 

[6slick4]

Why would you need to fiddle with welding mounts? 273/ 318 should be a "bolt in."

Your biggest problem is going to be making a decision about the water pump/ timing cover. Your 273 pump should be on the opposite side from the 318. You'll either have to change the timing cover/ balancer/ pump to the 318, change the lower radiator outlet from side to side, or "rig" a hose to cross over underneath to the opposite side.

Ignition: More clear? about "getting it running?"

What do you have available for ignition parts?

original points distributor? You have a spare SB breakerless distributor? Is the ignition/ distributor you had in the pickup going back in?

1--If you have the 273 points dist and it's in good runnable shape, at least to get it fired and other troubles worked out, just toss the points dist in and hook it up

2--If you have a spare breakerless Mopar dist, buy yourself a 70's GM "big cap" HEI module, mount it on some flat metal with the heat sink "grease" and wire it up. Four wires

3--If you are not going to use the ignition out of the pickup? junking it ?? use the ignition out of it. Easy to carefully cut enough of the harness to get the ECU, the connector, and the distributor wires and connector.

Whether you run the Mopar unit or the GM HEI module, you can use most of your factory wiring. If you use your Mopar ECU, leave the ballast in place. If you are using the GM HEI module, jumper the ballast connectors together Hook the original coil + wire to the the coil+ wire just like it originally was. The Mopar ECU OR the GM HEI has one wire that goes to coil NEG. See below In the Mopar ECU diagram, all the wiring to the coil + is left in place. The wire at far top right labeled "new wire" is actually part of a junkyard pigtail going to the ECU connector

As you can see, one wire goes from the box to coil NEG, and the two going to the distributor are part of the harness

MAKE SURE if you use a GM module that you wire the distributor so the wires go to the connector as pictured. They are "polarity sensitive" to proper operation

What is NOT shown on the Mopar diagram is the brown start/ bypass wire, which hooks to the coil+ side of the ballast resistor.

Ok, that helps, thanks for the diagrams. Yes I still have the points distributor ffrom the 273. The 318 still has the original distributor in it.

Sorry to be unclear, I guess what I was asking was could I use the points on the 318, and was curious how hard it would be to use the electronic parts from the 318.

As for the fiddling with the mounts, the ears on the passenger side of the 318 are the opposite of the the ears on the passenger side of the 273.

Here is the thread on that question.
I assume it's because it's a late 80's 318. Alot of people have stated they have not had issues with using the 273 brackets on early 318's, but there is no question, the ears are different, so I either have to add metal to the right side(passenger)side bracket or order a set off of schumacher.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=226438

 

[chryslerfat]

I welded the piece to my 273 mounts when I put my 360 in and have dropped the clutch at least 3 grand several times and never had the mount crack.

 

[67Dart273]

For what it's worth, these are all LA engines. Somehow I left out 273 driver side, but I ain't goin' out there again tonight

............and then there was this:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1969432534

 

[6slick4]

For what it's worth, these are all LA engines. Somehow I left out 273 driver side, but I ain't goin' out there again tonight

............and then there was this:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1969432534

Thank you for all the pictures, you didn't need to do that. lol

But much appreciated.

What year 318 is that in the picture?

 

[BillGrissom]

Search for posts "ready-to-run distributor" or "HEI distributor" here. $45 on ebay for a new distributor w/ integral HEI, simple 2-wire hook-up, can't beat that. Take out your ballast and put a male-male spade adapter there to connect the 2 harness plugs. Also, consider upgrading to an e-core coil and opening up your plug gaps to ~0.050". Do this even if you end up keeping the 273 in it.

Re the 318 swap, best to keep all the pulleys and accessories that are on the 318. Your fan will stick out ~1" farther with the alum water pump, so you may not be able to run a clutch/fan (I can't in my 65). If you want to use your 273 stuff, best to use the factory cast-iron pump, otherwise none of the pulleys will align the crank pulley. Also, that is the only way to mount the TRW power steering pump. You will need to file one hole in your crank pully since the 65 has an offset hole, unlike 80's engines.

 

[6slick4]

Search for posts "ready-to-run distributor" or "HEI distributor" here. $45 on ebay for a new distributor w/ integral HEI, simple 2-wire hook-up, can't beat that. Take out your ballast and put a male-male spade adapter there to connect the 2 harness plugs. Also, consider upgrading to an e-core coil and opening up your plug gaps to ~0.050". Do this even if you end up keeping the 273 in it.

Re the 318 swap, best to keep all the pulleys and accessories that are on the 318. Your fan will stick out ~1" farther with the alum water pump, so you may not be able to run a clutch/fan (I can't in my 65). If you want to use your 273 stuff, best to use the factory cast-iron pump, otherwise none of the pulleys will align the crank pulley. Also, that is the only way to mount the TRW power steering pump. You will need to file one hole in your crank pully since the 65 has an offset hole, unlike 80's engines.

Thanks for the info. I've got a good idea of what I am initially going to do.

Thanks to everyone for all of the input. This is a great forum.

 

[6slick4]

How about this set-up? What do you guys think?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-360-3...pt=Race_Car_Parts&hash=item4abf50ae95&vxp=mtr

 

[BillGrissom]

Looks like the simplest hookup possible. Some don't like the coil-in-cap style, but wouldn't bother me. I got a little cheaper with the White Performance $45 distributor + $20 e-core coil, but I recall the later price doubled.

 

[6slick4]

Looks like the simplest hookup possible. Some don't like the coil-in-cap style, but wouldn't bother me. I got a little cheaper with the White Performance $45 distributor + $20 e-core coil, but I recall the later price doubled.

Yeah, I agree pretty straight forward hookup. Probably be the way I go.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Abodybomber]

You could run a Pertronix in the stock distributor.Bolts in,use same wires,cap,etc. No wiring mods needed.Just a comment.

 

[BillGrissom]

You could run a Pertronix in the stock distributor.Bolts in,use same wires,cap,etc. No wiring mods needed.Just a comment.

You must at least need to run a supply wire to coil+, which doesn't exist in a points distributor. That is all you should need to wire with the "coil in cap HEI" that 6slick4 is considering. With Pertronix, you should also replace the factory coil, to get full benefit, especially if using Ignitor II or III. I wouldn't put in an Ignitor I since an old design that still requires the ballast resistor, as I understand. Re cost, an Ignitor II w/ e-core coil would cost as much or more, and you would still have your old distributor with maybe worn bushings. Hard to beat these Chinese designs on cost and simplicity.