Ok so I have a 1974 swinger with a mild 360 getting ready to swap out a new cam to a purple mopar or a voodoo, I still have the stock 904 and TQ and stock 8 1/4 rear with 2.45, my question is I am tight on money, should I buy a bigger TQ first or swap gears out to higher gears for the rearend? I know they both go hand in hand but what one should be done before the other?
Im lost at this stuff.... HELP?
- Thread starter mopardrt
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younggun2.0
Well-Known Member
gears will give you the most noticeable seat of the pants performance gain. when i had my 318 in my dart with 2.76 gears the car went 15.80. put a set of 3.55s in it and it went 13.70
dano
Evil Handy Man
^ See your other post regarding your cam, combo and needs.
younggun2.0
Well-Known Member
if its a mild 360 build and will be street driven then i think 3.55 gears would be a huge improvement. it will still allow you to run the highway at a tollerable rpm but will give you good acceleration. i wouldnt go much taller than that. even a 3.73 would be pushing it unless you have 28" or taller tires.
kahuna1949
Well-Known Member
Younggun, that gets me excited 15.80 to 13.70, I have been looking for something that would make a difference and that's a difference!
How many different people have to tell you something before you believe it?
younggun2.0
Well-Known Member
i went from the peg leg rear to the sure grip. that made a huge difference. i thing a set of gears are the single most effective upgrade in a hot rod.
my car is also a 74" 360 but with an 833, 3.23 to 1 is very common in 8.25 mopar rear end's, so if you go junk yard diving that's a good bet. you will get fare gas milage, ok stoplight 2 stoplight and good road trip's *
metallidart
member me?
Lol I will give it a go.
I would leave the engine alone.
Get a good 3200ish converter.
3.73 gears and a sure-grip, pretty sure you have to change the carrier since you have 2.45 gears.
My .02 cents.
But....if you have to change the engine combo, the Voodoo cam, an air-gap, and a little more stall than stock would make this a fun car as well. Nothing like shifting out of first at 60mph or so! Lol. My Dart had a stock bottom end 72' 360, a crane 224/232@. 050,280/288 adv,. 460/. 450 cam, mild pocket porting on the stock j heads, ld340, and a 750dp, went 13.5@100 with 3.23 and wheelspin.
metallidart
member me?
I guess you need to decide what YOU want out of your car.
Its not about listing to people its about actually having the money to do what is being said, If I buy a TQ then that's it I am tapped, but I can buy the cam and a new gear set and wait for a TQ down the road, people keep saying, you need to buy new intake new gears and new TQ. Most of all you guys know, it all comes down to money, right now driving my car is like driving a cruise ship it goes NO WHERE, all because I changed out to this huge thumpr cam for the sound, yes I know that was a bad idea, just changing the cam down smaller like it was before I know will give me better results, and I have the availability to get a set of 3.21 gears and its all in my price range, if I wait to buy the TQ and a intake down the road I should be way better off is what I have been reading from most people, but at the same time I have other people who do not understand they fact that money plays a KEY factor here.
Why do you HAVE to buy two things at once? It IS about listening to people. You've been told by several different people the same thing. That the BEST most cost effective thing thing to do is regear FIRST and save for the converter, yet you act as if we're speaking a foreign language. Your engine combo is GREAT. I would be damned if I would change it. The motor is NOT the problem. That's the most cost effective way. Is that not what you're lookin for?
I have read that the cam I put in is just a real waste of time, loss of tremendous power and you replace performance for sound of choppy idle, most people in these posts have told me cam TQ and gears..
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
how big of a cam are you going with?
personally i wouldn't install anything yet. i would gather the cam kit, gears and a converter and put it all in at the same time.
depending on how big a cam you go with both the gears and TC can make the car miserable to drive.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
oh man. just read the other replies in the thread...
so you put a big cam in for the sound? its now a pig? putting a mor emild cam in to make it run better?
what cam is in it now? just a gear change may wake the motor up. to make the combo right you'll need a converter also but maybe you can save buying a new cam and put the money towards gears for the cam thats in the car now. i'm sure that would help alot.
before you buy anything though you have to figure out excatly what the hell you want from the car or you will dump a lot more money into it then is needed because of doing everything twice. figure out exactly what you want and go from there. it will be cheaper in the long run.
the other thing is if money is that tight keep the thing as mild and simple as possible. these stupid cars are far from cheap to play with..
just out of curiosity how old are you??
so you put a big cam in for the sound? its now a pig? putting a mor emild cam in to make it run better?
what cam is in it now? just a gear change may wake the motor up. to make the combo right you'll need a converter also but maybe you can save buying a new cam and put the money towards gears for the cam thats in the car now. i'm sure that would help alot.
before you buy anything though you have to figure out excatly what the hell you want from the car or you will dump a lot more money into it then is needed because of doing everything twice. figure out exactly what you want and go from there. it will be cheaper in the long run.
the other thing is if money is that tight keep the thing as mild and simple as possible. these stupid cars are far from cheap to play with..
just out of curiosity how old are you??
metallidart
member me?
I didn't mean to offend you or anything, just stating a fact. I understand about money, believe me. It's when you DON'T have alot of cash that you really have to not only ask for opinions, but do research on the parts, and decide what you want your car to do. Don't buy something to compensate for other parts that are wrong! You gotta make a plan, and stick to it. Do you want to deal with numerically higher gears and a higher stall, and also the poor mpg, and the engine buzzing along at a higher rpm? Or, do you want torque and alot of midrange power, and also have the ability to cruise comfortably? That is what I meant when I said YOU have to decide.
What you have read are reviews from people like yourself who've used those cams in a very mismatched combo. If they are used with loose converters and low gears like they are designed to be used with, they will run like all hell. They are MUCH the same design as the Hughes Whiplash cams. Same grind type. BIG duration split with a long exhaust duration and a narrow LSA. That adds up to a choppy idle.....but that's not ALL. The narrow LSA builds cylinder pressure because it opens and closes the valves faster, making more peak power than a comparable cam with a wider LSA. Like I told you in the PM. Do what you want. It's your car and your money. But your engine is a good running combo. I wouldn't tear into it if it was mine.
younggun2.0
Well-Known Member
there is alot of good advise here. you have built an engine that is not performing well because you dont have the gears or converter to compliment it. i think you need more gear in the rear and it will wake it up.
It'll run like a sumbitch with JUST the gear change. He just doesn't understand.
Amen...
It has a thmpr in it now? Was it degreed? I think you are wasting your time and money swapping out the cam if you already have the thmpr and it's not degreed.
Even the small thmpr in a low compression 360 will run pretty good, like high 12's/103-105 mph capable in a decent combo.
Ignition timing will make a BIG difference as well. If it's not right you're suffering down low.
Sell the victor340 and buy an RPM... that should be close to a wash.
Carb is OK
Buy a GOOD converter, not some $200-300 POS. Plan on spending 500-700 here.
Put 3.23 to 3.55 gears in it and run it. There are some 360 cars running mid-low 12's with 3.23 gear and a GOOD converter. It's all in the combination and set up.
I think the current, or intended, engine combo is a total POS with the victor on it. Others may disagree, but, if you watch what a victor intake tends to do to a TQ curve compared to a RPM/Air Gap, it shouldn't even be a thought to run the victor. On one of the 360's I did, the tq moved UP 800 rpm going from a RPM to a victor and it lost a bunch of tq, including peak. Not good for a streeter with a tightish converter/gear. When my Mom in a walker puts two car lengths on you off the line... you'll know why the victor isn't a good choice!
Sometimes you may not like what you read regarding opinions of your intended build. Pretty obvious, I wouldn't suggest you use what you have, regardless of what it cost you.
In the end it's your car... pick your parts, pay your money!
Rob, if you think the Victor is that bad on his combo, you got me sold. You got way more racin experience than I do......recent racing experience, too. The biggest part of it I cannot get my head around and agree with is the cam change. Just makes zero sense to me.
metallidart
member me?
X2! He has a very good starting point, and some changes would really bring that thing to life! I mentioned going milder based on the other threads. He had slot of good suggestions from you guys, and your guys really know your stuff!
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