But the facts are what they are.
No replacement for displacement!
Thank you drive through.
But the facts are what they are.
No replacement for displacement!
??Thank you drive through.
After reading this thread I just got to a point with all this ridiculousness here I couldn't stay out of it. BILL JENKINS! Are you serious? Your talking about aseriousengine builder & innovator who was at the top of his game vs so many also rans at the time. It wasn't the multi-millionaire only class that it is today. Also the Pro Stock class at that time had weight breaks based on cubic inches, so there was an advantage to running a smaller engine/ lighter car combination. Remember Glidden & his Plymouth Arrow? Weight breaks is why he changed over.
If you seriously think a 340 could take a 396 in stock form you need to check into rehab! In car of similar weight & size(camaro/ nova) the 396 made more power in EVERY version produced so the power to weight being even close it would beat the 340. So yes it probably came down to bad drivers.
The 340 is cool if you are into nostalgia. I can say this; Horsepower is a by product of torque. Torque is easier to produce with longer stroke & more cubic inches. A smaller engine will rev higher to produce the same horsepower out of necessity. I've built them both. If I had my choice I'd build an early 360 block(same core as a 340 BTW) & enjoy the extra power it produces at lower RPM. Even if I disappointed the crowds because of it! Lower ET slips cure that rather quickly!
I'm not a 340 hater or a 360 lover. But the facts are what they are.
No replacement for displacement!
I call foul! When Pro/Stock started in 1970, Mopars dominated. PERIOD! Same thing in 1971. And there were only 5 or 6 National events back then, not like it is today. I think it was between the 1971 and 72 seasons when the Mopar guys built their new pro stock cars according to the rule book. They didn't know that Wally Parks had told Jenkins to build a car to beat the Mopars and he would see that it got through Tech. So Grump built a light weight tube chassis style Vega that was totally against the NHRA rule book. Sure enough, it passed tech. And, in order to "equalize" the field, AKA Chevy must win to satisfy the masses, the lowest common denominator, the Hemis were required to carry more weight per cubic inch than any other style engine and they kept on adding weight until the Mopars absolutely were un competitive. This was NOT between seasons, the weight breaks were changing between the National race events. And the crowds went wild, and the Mopars simply packed up their stuff and left as there was no way for them to even win a hot dog. Simple math, more weight per C.I. = losses.
It's painfully spelled out in the book "We Were the Ramchargers" and vintage car mags but I was at every Indy Nationals from 1970-1975 and saw it happen year by year. (Used to camp out in the Drive-In theater across the street and go to the races Friday through Monday) In the book, they say that Wally Parks actually apologized to the Mopar guys decades later and admitted he had screwed up. Same story in Nascar.
Oh, and I'll take a 340 over a 360 just because.
Oh, and I'll take a 340 over a 360 just because.
So let me get this straight. You're saying a car that weighs about the same, with 30-50hp advantage on the street can't beat a 340? And all things being equal, heads, compression, cam, intake, carb etc,a motor with 20 cu. in more displacement wont make more power? And the fact that Bill Jenkins cars weighed a lot less than the Hemi cars in P/S at that time doesn't matter? If Grumpy could make the same amount of power in the Small Block as he could have with the Big Block wouldn't he have stuck with that when NHRA removed the weight breaks?The reason bill jenkins name up is this statement (No replacement for displacement) if that is so I could build a 800ci engine and be top dog in pro mod.They have them in pro mod and 600ci engine are beating them all the time.And yes I am serious this was told to him all the time and he did it to prove them wrong.prostock didn't take him serious until he startied betting the pants of everyone.Also he was not the onlyone there ware many that showed what you are talking is wrong.One thing i will say is all of my 340,s were bigblock killers no matter what body you had them in.And never had a 396 out run them nova,camrao or chevelles.Like I said the racers in my aera mostly were mopar guys(use to be chevy) and 340,s was the cause of it.To guys had dusters one a340 and one a 360 both engines were built the same.the guy with thought he had the edge with the 360.The 340 beat the pants off the 360.Maybe you have a super 360 the one they never madeAlso the most ridiculousness ststement that was made was yours. Mark
"Never let the facts get in the way of a good argument"... - Ronald Reagan
I always liked that one too!I slapped my knee and snorted over that one. lol
Wow you guys sure got ugly.... . You guys have indirectly helped me out, yet left me still wondering somethings. I did learn that the 340 piston sticks up above the deck. So that is where they got there compression. Every stock 360 I have ever seen are waaaaay down the hole. Like I said originally, I have been mentally building this 360 for years, can damn near recite the specs and parts list. This 340 was just an opportunity that popped up, and never studying them or even looking into them, I was lacking. So to elaborate a little, I am going to drive the Duster in say... A rather spirited manner, lots of cornering, up and down shifting, hard braking. Yet short shifting around 5500- to maybe 6k, 6200!if I blow a shift or get distracted. However it is also gonna be a DAILY DRIVER, with a/c, roadtripper etc. now prior to this post the only thing I knew of 340's was hype, reputation, and unicorn like mythical tales. They also have a wicked cool factor!!! For years people have asked what motor is going in my car? When I replied 360, you could just about watch the eyes glaze over in the uninformed. Lately since the purchase of my 340, EVERYBODY lights up!
340 pros: forged crank(not certain I really need it, but it is comforting.) TQ, the original one to the engine! Clean inside, evidence of low mileage, or exceptional care. 10-1 plus compression. Cons... Gonna need to work the valve seats for todays fuels. Could in theory give it a ring bearing, gasket , cam and a paintjob. However it will also need a Milodon road race pan and windage tray, but either engine will need that! The 360.... Well it will need new flattops, new eq heads, unless by some stroke of luck my magnums on the shelf are good. All the basic machine work to put my frankenstein stock of 360 parts together. In the grand scheme of things... I do believe the 360 even in my desired mildish tune will be the better performer. My 340 will be cheaper and quicker to put to use sooner than later. The sale of the 340 will not be enough to make up for the budget shortfalls left with the 360. One last question. I made an assumption that the 340 heads will need hardened seats installed? Yes or no? Figure best gas,pump premium 91 octane. A flat topped mag headed 360... All day long! How about this 340?
So let me get this straight. You're saying a car that weighs about the same, with 30-50hp advantage on the street can't beat a 340? And all things being equal, heads, compression, cam, intake, carb etc,a motor with 20 cu. in more displacement wont make more power? And the fact that Bill Jenkins cars weighed a lot less than the Hemi cars in P/S at that time doesn't matter? If Grumpy could make the same amount of power in the Small Block as he could have with the Big Block wouldn't he have stuck with that when NHRA removed the weight breaks?
Kinda defies all the logic & real world data that engine builders & racers have relied on for decades.
Yeah, I guess I'm just the one making ridiculous comments here.
"Never let the facts get in the way of a good argument"... - Ronald Reagan
They also have a wicked cool factor!!! For years people have asked what motor is going in my car? When I replied 360, you could just about watch the eyes glaze over in the uninformed.
Yep I say screw it all and throw a 6.4L/392 Hemi in it (new or old your choice)!340.....360........ Just meet in the middle and toss a 350 in there and piss 'em all off