Is a Holley 750 DP too much carb?

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Gregor

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Hey guys, I'm a newbie who has a built 360 bored .30 over. This motor was built by Mr. Wilson of Compuflow in Medina OH about ten years ago. I just bought the car a 70 dart which was given a restoration 9-10 years ago. This car did alot of sitting over the past decade with only 2k miles put on it in that time. I'm super grateful to have a fresh build done by what I hear was one of the best engine builders around these parts. Some people I have shown the car to have suggested that the 750 is too much carb for this engine. Engine has a forged crank and high energy cams in it and TTI headers. I do not know what the compression ratio is at this time. I have a folder of information with all data in it if you need more specific answers as to lift, duration and timing that would help in someone giving me good advice. The 750 that's on it is slightly leaking so I have a gasket set ordered for it. If the wise thing to do would be to downsize to a smaller carb then I'll just skip the 750 overhaul.
 
Is the 750 a double pumper or single feed? Holley or carter? Cam specs would be key in this as well. Sounds like a great car. Does it lag off the line? Hesitate when floored?
 
Some details about the engine would really help!
Off the cuff, a 750 is just fine for stock to a well prepped hot rod. A 750 covers almost all the bases. Unless it is a strip car or a seriously beefed up engine, 750 is perfect.
 
Some details about the engine would really help!
Off the cuff, a 750 is just fine for stock to a well prepped hot rod. A 750 covers almost all the bases. Unless it is a strip car or a seriously beefed up engine, 750 is perfect.
At work right now. I have all the specs on the engine build at home. I will get that info posted tonight.
 
in my opinion and based on my experience 750 double pumpers show there stuff when combined with high gears and four speeds if your set up is in that wheel house and carb is working well it is a power house...but a bit hungry
 
Some details about the engine would really help!
Off the cuff, a 750 is just fine for stock to a well prepped hot rod. A 750 covers almost all the bases. Unless it is a strip car or a seriously beefed up engine, 750 is perfect.
Ok here are the details about my engine:
Mains cut .010 Cylinders overbored .030. New cam bearings, Comp Cams Extreme energy cam. cam advance duration 274 intake, 286 exhaust. Cam duration at .05 230 intake, 236 exhaust, Cam lift valve .488 intake, .491 exhaust. Cam lobe separation 110 degrees. Cam degreed at 105,5 degrees.

Driveline: A833 23 spline transmission 4 speed, 83/4 inch rear end with a 3.91 gear.
The car runs great and launches hard. Just seems like it's really hard on gas. I'm getting about 6-7 miles per gallon. Does that sound right? Someone suggested to me that is too large a carb and maybe a 650 would be better. It does run great and I don't want to fix it if it aint broke.
 
in my opinion and based on my experience 750 double pumpers show there stuff when combined with high gears and four speeds if your set up is in that wheel house and carb is working well it is a power house...but a bit hungry
Yes sir that is my only complaint is that it is a bit hungry.
I an considering switching to a 3.55 gear to save some gas but still have fun. Would the 750 still be ok with a 3.55 gear?
 
The cam and gears are the main culprit in your gas consumption. IMO, I think you need to get into the tune of the engine. Carb & distributor.

What ignition are you running?

A move to 3.55's would only help a little bit. And yes the 750 would still be OK with those gears. A move to a 650 would be OK, mileage wise, but again, you'll only see a little bit. You will miss some top end power with a 650.
 
The cam and gears are the main culprit in your gas consumption. IMO, I think you need to get into the tune of the engine. Carb & distributor.

What ignition are you running?

A move to 3.55's would only help a little bit. And yes the 750 would still be OK with those gears. A move to a 650 would be OK, mileage wise, but again, you'll only see a little bit. You will miss some top end power with a 650.
I sure do appreciate your advice sir. The ignition is a Mopar Performance Electronic ignition kit. 6 AL Ignition Control Box, rev limiter chip at 6000 rpm. Summit coil, timing set 10 degrees advanced 38 degrees.
 
I would try more Initial and less total.
Bump it to 16* initial and see how she likes it.
Limit total to 36 or less.

What heads? Is the distributor a MP part? Or a stock unit?
 
If you already own the 750DP, bolt it on and don't look back! The carb will always tell you if it is too big, by the way it can't be tuned, or is hard to tune for low-speed operation
I have run that bad boy on my 367 with a 230*, a 223*, and a 249* cam. With a 3.55,a 4.88 and a 2.76 and just about everything in between but always with about a 8.5 or better DCr. I also tried an AVS, a TQ,a 600 and a 750 vacuum secondary carb. I like the 750DP best, and it's been on there now since about 2004,so 10 years, and it's staying on there. Fuel consumption be hanged.
I agree with rumble as to timing. I ran a less initial (14*), cuz with 3.55s and a 2.66 low, things get a little jumpy down at 600rpm. To compensate. I ran a 22* Vcan, bringing it in as fast as she'll take it. I have since, switched to a 3.09low gear. I left the timing alone cuz it's just soo sweet, to idle around at 600.
Yeah so don't look back!
Oh wait 6000? That 230* cam probably peaks around 5600. With a stick shift split of 72% she will probably want to be shifted at 6400/6500. Outshifting at say 6500, the tranny will pull the rpm down to 72% or 4680 going into the next gear, making a powerband of 6500 less 4680=1820rpm. Splitting that up the middle is 910 rpm and 4680+910=5590 pretty much bang on. So you will need a new chip.
Your current starter gear is 2.66x3.91=10.4. I run a starter of 10.97, and would not like less with my 230* cam, well maybe a little less, say 10% or 9.87 as a minimum city gear.This would be 3.73s for you. With 3.55s there will be a fair bit of clutch slipping required to get moving, and no chance of any parade action. The minimum rpm with that 230* and a sharp tune might be 650 which translates to 5.54 mph; at which time things will get rather jumpy and you are gonna have to pedal it. I would just leave the 3.91s in there for a minimum roadspeed of 5mph.
I would,however slow down on the hi-way. 55mph with 3.91s and 27s is about 2672rpm,(as opposed to 3157@65). Then I would start feeding her timing until she complained about it (probably somewhere north of 55*). And then I would start pulling fuel out of the low-speed circuit. Pretty soon you will see way better than 6 or 7. Ima thinkin she's got double that in her,under steady-state 55;unless the compression is in the basement. Then you are screwed. To make numbers at 2672rpm, you are gonna need compression.Lots of it.
But 3157 will drink gas no matter what you do.
So if hi-way economy matters to you, And your Dcr is sour,go down 1 cam size and put in 3.23s.Or even the 3.55s if you already own them. .3.55s will bring your Rs down to 2867@65, but more importantly the next smaller cam at say 223*@050 will be waaaay more fuel-thrifty. And the new starter gear of 3.55x2.66=9.44. While being a little tall, the smaller cam with the increased Dcr,is way more street-friendly and will easily pull it. The 223 cam will keep pulling down to 500 with sharp tune, and that makes the minimum speed 4.26mph, but the jumpiness will be gone.The new hiway speed of 65@2867rpm is much more fuel economy friendly. I see mid to high teens easily enough, with just a good tune. I don't think the DP will go there tho. The low speed circuit in those is too hard to access. So on this cam I would install a carb with metering rods and get the matching kit.
With this smaller cam, and supposing the increase in DCr is favorable,and with the gear changes, I see a slight loss of performance. Well OK more than a slight loss.; a significant loss. But who cares! You already have more power in the first two gears than the tires can handle! It's like shooting a deer did with a 303 or a 22; how dead does the deer need to be to stay dead?
Now if you were a drag-racer the loss would be felt all right. But as a streeter,you have more targets to hit. And sometimes you have to give a little to get a little.
Anyway, I have driven a multitude of combos in my 68 FormulaS-clone, and my favorite was this exact combo; the 223* cam, a TQ carb, and 3.55s. I however added a 3.09 low gear, and a GV o/d to bring the Rs down to 2236@65. I'm not gonna tell you you can get mileage in the hi 20s. And I won't say the 3-gear run to 106 was particularly fast, but it was in the 12s with a 2.2 60ft. In my quest this was waaaay more than I had hoped for.And a 12second street car with mileage in the 20s is a thing of beauty!
Oh yeah I loved to stomp it at 35mph, in second, with the 3.55s, to light up the 295s. Yeah I know this is not particularly incredible, but it made me giggle every time I did it! And I remember those times fondly.
My current combo is much like yours; a 230* cam, a 750DP, an A833 and 3.55s. Yeah it has more power at the top. And I managed to perk up the bottom with the 3.09low gear, and I can still lite 'em up at 35. But I sure miss the long summer cruises I used to go on, endlessly passing the filling stations..........
I took a little and lost a lot.
 
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I would try more Initial and less total.
Bump it to 16* initial and see how she likes it.
Limit total to 36 or less.

What heads? Is the distributor a MP part? Or a stock unit?
Heads, Serdi competition valve job, 2.02" intake, 1.60" exhaust valves. Bronze valve guides installed and honed, intake and exhaust ports gasket matched, Chambers radiused, Cat aluminum extrusion rockers. 1.6 ratio heat treated roller tips, extra large fulcrum needle bearings.. These are cast iron heads not aluminum heads. I personally do not yet understand what all this information means. I am just in the learning stages of this hobby. I am simply forwarding to you what the previous owner has typed out for me in the album that came with the car detailing the restoration process that was done.

What if I swiched it to a 5 speed tranny for better mileage on the freeway?
 
If you already own the 750DP, bolt it on and don't look back! The carb will always tell you if it is too big, by the way it can't be tuned, or is hard to tune for low-speed operation
I have run that bad boy on my 367 with a 230*, a 223*, and a 249* cam. With a 3.55,a 4.88 and a 2.76 and just about everything in between but always with about a 8.5 or better DCr. I also tried an AVS, a TQ,a 600 and a 750 vacuum secondary carb. I like the 750DP best, and it's been on there now since about 2004,so 10 years, and it's staying on there. Fuel consumption be hanged.
I agree with rumble as to timing. I ran a less initial (14*), cuz with 3.55s and a 2.66 low, things get a little jumpy down at 600rpm. To compensate. I ran a 22* Vcan, bringing it in as fast as she'll take it. I have since, switched to a 3.09low gear. I left the timing alone cuz it's just soo sweet, to idle around at 600.
Yeah so don't look back!
I guess I just need to make peace with frequent stops at the pump.
 
What I am after is what the heads are. Iron or aluminum. The amount of advance will depend on the metal as well as the chamber (size) in the head.

If it was an aluminum head, I would have told you 32-34 max total advance.

And not understanding is OK. You'll learn. Keep reading. You'll be fine.

If you want To spend the Money on an overdrive, the mileage gain is will be noticeable but not huge.

There is room for improvement but do realize the your .030 - 360 (365 now or 6 ltr!) is on the biggish side, well cammed and has a high gear ratio. So it will only get so good.

The key here is to keep at it.

What size tires are on the rear of the car?
 
What I am after is what the heads are. Iron or aluminum. The amount of advance will depend on the metal as well as the chamber (size) in the head.

If it was an aluminum head, I would have told you 32-34 max total advance.

And not understanding is OK. You'll learn. Keep reading. You'll be fine.

If you want To spend the Money on an overdrive, the mileage gain is will be noticeable but not huge.

There is room for improvement but do realize the your .030 - 360 (365 now or 6 ltr!) is on the biggish side, well cammed and has a high gear ratio. So it will only get so good.

The key here is to keep at it.

What size tires are on the rear of the car?
The heads are iron and original to this block. the rear tires are 225/70 R14 front 215/70 R14
 
What I am after is what the heads are. Iron or aluminum. The amount of advance will depend on the metal as well as the chamber (size) in the head.

If it was an aluminum head, I would have told you 32-34 max total advance.

And not understanding is OK. You'll learn. Keep reading. You'll be fine.

If you want To spend the Money on an overdrive, the mileage gain is will be noticeable but not huge.

There is room for improvement but do realize the your .030 - 360 (365 now or 6 ltr!) is on the biggish side, well cammed and has a high gear ratio. So it will only get so good.

The key here is to keep at it.

What size tires are on the rear of the car?
What is the biggest tires I could put on it to get lower rpm on the highway?
 
OWOWOWOWWWWWWOO!
Tiny tire! Holy Moly you must be running that tach a little high.

There is a thread with many many entries On what tire can be fitted under the car and how some of the guys did it with large tires.

Go
To wheels and tires forum here
 
The double pumper carbs will launch a car very hard if it matches the rest of the set up, but it was not designed for the street, will it work absolutely,but if fuel mileage is of any concern there are better choices. TQ or holley avenger line would be two I would take a good look at .I have a very nice 750 dbl pumper on my bench it is a power house on my 340 with a 242 at 50 cam and 391buted 4speed m1 single plane ported procomp heads...but my 850 TQ is on my motor 90% of the time not much differences in power but about 5miles to the gallon better mileage for just tearing around . have fun!
 
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You need to learn how to tune the engine is what you need to do. Being resigned to multiple stops at the gas pump is a bad attitude to have.

The carb is probably fat on transition, IFR and IAB's.

Ignition timing is not close to good for the cam.

Had similar builds with a 750dp and got 18+mg on the highway and mid teens around town.
 
maybe with a egg under the gas pedal, lol
You need to learn how to tune the engine is what you need to do. Being resigned to multiple stops at the gas pump is a bad attitude to have.

The carb is probably fat on transition, IFR and IAB's.

Ignition timing is not close to good for the cam.

Had similar builds with a 750dp and got 18+mg on the highway and mid teens around town.
 
OWOWOWOWWWWWWOO!
Tiny tire! Holy Moly you must be running that tach a little high.

There is a thread with many many entries On what tire can be fitted under the car and how some of the guys did it with large tires.

Go
To wheels and tires forum here
Yeah man at 60 mph it's running 3200 rpm. So a larger tire is the easiest answer?
 
You need to learn how to tune the engine is what you need to do. Being resigned to multiple stops at the gas pump is a bad attitude to have.

The carb is probably fat on transition, IFR and IAB's.

Ignition timing is not close to good for the cam.

Had similar builds with a 750dp and got 18+mg on the highway and mid teens around town.
 
Yeah those tires are for slantys. But the height is close at about 26.4 high; which calculates to 83.4 in circumference. All my calculations were based on a 27.0 inch tire at 85.0 circumference. So that is within 3.2%
Most As after 67 will accept up to 28 inch tire, which is a 275/60-15, which is about 6% bigger. You can accomplish nearly the same thing with the next size down gears,3.73s which are about 5% shorter.But since the 26.4s are waaaay to skinny for a 360 anyway, a new higher tire is the way to go, and especially wider.
It's not stated I don't think, what car you have and that makes quite a difference in tire fitments.EDIT, I found it's a 70Dart.
A 5-speed is absolutely the best thing for a Normally-Aspirated SBM in our As. There is no question about that. The trick is capacity and money; they are not cheap! And they don't all drop in, so there is more money to install one.And one with a big enough capacity to survive a stout 360 is even more money.You can buy an awful lot of gas for the installed cost of one of those bad boys.

Now if a 4-speed automatic was on the table........
 
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