Is my lower control arm toast? With Pictures!

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cfordyce05

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I started rebuilding my lower control arms and got the bushings out to put Peter Bergman's delrin bushings in and this is what it found in the bushing bore...

It looks like a previous owner did not use the washer welding method and really messed up the bore both getting the old bushing out and replacing it. Is the whole arm toast? Should I just grind the galling smooth and install my new bushings?

If it's toast, does anyone have a drivers side control arm they'd like to donate to my cause? If it is going to cost very much to replace it, I'll probably just cut my losses and buy QA1 lower control arms. I'm just glad I hadn't already welded the reinforcement plate on it.

20170826_204302[1].jpg
 
In my opinion, I'd get another one. There are several members on this site who will probably have one. If you really needed to use this one, you could probably use some grinding tools and CAREFULLY smooth out the damage and press in a new bushing. But I'd get a new one.
 
Got a Dremel with an 80 grit abrasive "flap wheel"?
Smooth out the divots and scars with one of those.
I have seen that, and worse, before, in my rebuilding of LCA's.
But then i have always replaced bushings with the stock type metal sleeve, and rubber bushing.
Ain't got a clue what this guys delrin bushing is anyway.
What makes it better than a factory stock bushing?
Just my 2 cents on the subject.
 
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I don't know Delrin, But in the current state of that bore, it will eat a Poly Bushing. My Polys are sorta fixed on the center pin and the outer diameter becomes the bearing; so that bore needs to be cleaned up.Lowspots are fine but the edges of the divots need to be removed, and the face cleaned up. If your bushing has a steel sleeve then just press it into the cleaned up bore.
I'm kindof with harissomn
 
Got a Dremel with an 80 grit abrasive "flap wheel"?
Smooth out the divots and scars with one of those.
I have seen that, and worse, before, in my rebuilding of LCA's.
But then i have always replaced bushings with the stock type metal sleeve, and rubber bushing.
Ain't got a clue what this guys delrin bushing is anyway.
What makes it better than a factory stock bushing?
Just my 2 cents on the subject.
For guys that do not have their heads stuck in the 60s, Delrin and Urethane are an alternative to the stock rubber bushings.
Some guys tend to look at the stock Mopar suspension and choose to make improvements where needed. If you live only for drag racing and never take corners faster than the posted speed limit, the stock rubber bushings are probably just fine.
 
Are we not looking at the outer shell of a previous bushing still in the arm?
 
Thats the rotational part of the LCA, goes through the adjuster. The sleeve has been removed. The bushing shown in pic looks like the mate to it. I have seen worse. Id clean up and put a steel sleeve bushing in of any rubber or poly or delrin type as long as it went in clean and was in a steel sleeve.
 
Don't you guys look at the pictures in the posters thread and figure things out.
The removed, old bushing, is clearly pictured, laying on the lower control arm.
 
Don't you guys look at the pictures in the posters thread and figure things out.
The removed, old bushing, is clearly pictured, laying on the lower control arm.
You're right, the bushing is clearly setting there like the big elephant in the room.
 
Please listen to hemi71x, he has been doing this a long time. He knows what he is talking about. Nobody on here can beat his knowledge of the suspension components. He is also one hell of a nice guy.
 
Please listen to hemi71x, he has been doing this a long time. He knows what he is talking about. Nobody on here can beat his knowledge of the suspension components. He is also one hell of a nice guy.


Thank's a lot people.
Appreciate the comments towards my workmanship.
As a matter of fact, I'm packaging up a pair of LCA's to send out to a member, here on this forum.

:thankyou: :thumbsup:
 
For guys that do not have their heads stuck in the 60s, Delrin and Urethane are an alternative to the stock rubber bushings.
Some guys tend to look at the stock Mopar suspension and choose to make improvements where needed. If you live only for drag racing and never take corners faster than the posted speed limit, the stock rubber bushings are probably just fine.
Well in my stuck in the '60's way of thinking, I would only use the alternatives strictly FOR drag racing or autocross/road racing. Stiffer bushings with less deflection are tailor-made FOR drag racing. I have run polyurethane on a purely street driven car a couple times and have eventually experienced noise issues, even with using the manufacturers lubricant. ANNOYING on the street ! Sway bar bushings would be the only exception for me. Just my old *** '60:s opinion.
 
Got a Dremel with an 80 grit abrasive "flap wheel"?
Smooth out the divots and scars with one of those.
I have seen that, and worse, before, in my rebuilding of LCA's.
But then i have always replaced bushings with the stock type metal sleeve, and rubber bushing.
Ain't got a clue what this guys delrin bushing is anyway.
What makes it better than a factory stock bushing?
Just my 2 cents on the subject.
Just to confirm for everyone, the sleeve is out of the arm. I need to confirm with Peter Bergman @GMachineDartGT whether the delrin bushings are supposed to press into the arm and then the shaft rotates in the ID of the bushing. One bushing slides on and off the shaft by hand, the other was a press fit on the shaft. If the new bushing is supposed to press in the arm, then I think I'd be fine removing the high spots so it doesn't damage the bushing and pressing it in.
 
I vote for the rubber bushings as well. Street cars hit pot holes etc. I'd rather have the rubber bushings absorb some of that energy instead of transferring it to the K-frame. Many reports of bushings without sleeves letting the control arm move around. Then you get adjustable strut rods to crank the bushing back into a bind to keep things in place. I'm with the others. Sometimes better to leave the race track parts for the race track. With a sleeved bushing deburr and run it.
 
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Just to confirm for everyone, the sleeve is out of the arm. I need to confirm with Peter Bergman @GMachineDartGT whether the delrin bushings are supposed to press into the arm and then the shaft rotates in the ID of the bushing. One bushing slides on and off the shaft by hand, the other was a press fit on the shaft. If the new bushing is supposed to press in the arm, then I think I'd be fine removing the high spots so it doesn't damage the bushing and pressing it in.
Why these 2 bushing aren't the same fit would puzzle me. While I have no experience in aftermarket plastic bushings, I had assumed they were all slip fit, no press req'd.
 
Well in my stuck in the '60's way of thinking, I would only use the alternatives strictly FOR drag racing or autocross/road racing. Stiffer bushings with less deflection are tailor-made FOR drag racing. I have run polyurethane on a purely street driven car a couple times and have eventually experienced noise issues, even with using the manufacturers lubricant. ANNOYING on the street ! Sway bar bushings would be the only exception for me. Just my old *** '60:s opinion.
Properly installed and lubricated poly bushings don't squeak. Run them for tens of thousands of miles, no issues. Best solution for this is a greaseable LCA pin that was designed for use with poly bushings. The factory pin tolerances suck, the inner bushing shells are worse, using stock pins and shells with aftermarket bushings requires checking and correcting the tolerances to be successful.

I vote for the rubber bushings as well. Street cars hit pot holes etc. I'd rather have the rubber bushings absorb some of that energy instead of transferring it to the K-frame. Many reports of bushings without sleeves letting the control arm move around. Then you get adjustable strut rods to crank the bushing back into a bind to keep things in place. I'm with the others. Sometimes better to leave the race track parts for the race track. With a sleeved bushing deburr and run it.
If your LCA's move around with poly bushings, the installation was incorrect. If there's a bind in your LCA's with poly bushings, your installation was incorrect.

The "problem" with poly bushings isn't the bushings, it's the lousy factory tolerances- and the installer. People slap them in and use them with incorrect tolerances and expect them to work because they don't understand how they work. They're different than the factory rubber bushings, they install differently, and the tolerances are MUCH more important. They have to fit tightly in the outer shells (if they use the original shells), the pins have to fit tightly in the bushings. Then, the strut rods have to be the right length for the new bushings. The factory parts all depend on the slop in the rubber bushings to get away with the tolerances not being exact. The poly bushings remove the slop, so, the tolerances have to be corrected if you want everything to work properly. Simple as that. They aren't stock bushings, they don't work like stock bushings.

Why these 2 bushing aren't the same fit would puzzle me. While I have no experience in aftermarket plastic bushings, I had assumed they were all slip fit, no press req'd.

It's no puzzle at all, the factory pin diameters are all over the place. I measured 4 different sets of factory LCA pins and found like 6 different diameters, and they weren't close. The range was from .928 all the way up to .945". Factory tolerances sucked.

The Delrin bushings, on the other hand, have very precise tolerances. The fit on the Delrin bushings should be a light press, or tight slip fit. I used a press to install the Delrin bushings in my Qa1 LCA's, but it was a pretty light press. The press was just the easiest way to do the install smoothly. The pins were a tight slip fit, I tapped the LCA's with bushings installed onto the pins with a dead-blow hammer. They don't just slide on and off loosely. I found the LCA's still moved smoothly though, much more predictably than with rubber bushings depending on the elasticity of the rubber to allow the LCA travel.

For the OP- I would find a new LCA for use with Delrin bushings. You can probably smooth that one out, but stock LCA's are cheap and plentiful if you don't need a set with sway bar tabs. And you can buy sway bar tabs from Peter, so, there's really no need to mess that that LCA. The Delrin bushing may spin some in the LCA. On my install I think the pin would probably be where the movement occurred, but that may not always be the case because the fit of the bushing in the LCA and the fit of the pin in the bushing is pretty similar, so some movement may occur at both spots.

As for the pins, I would make sure you have the same fit on both bushings. If you don't, I would look for different pins. As I mentioned above, the tolerances on the factory pins aren't great. They're actually pretty bad for what they are, I mean, .928" all the way to .945"?! That's not close. I used a set of Firm Feel greasable pins with my Delrin bushings. They fit great, and both sides were the same. You don't need the greasable aspect of them because the Delrin is self lubricating, but the tolerances are much better. And since they're designed for poly bushings, the diameter is correct without using an inner shell. So, no old bushing shells with lousy tolerances needed at all. The tolerances have to be right, there's no slop like with the rubber bushings to make up for bad tolerances.

Also, the QA1 arms come with rubber bushings installed. I don't know why such a great part comes with crappy factory style bushings, but they do. Just FYI if you do buy the Qa1 LCA's, you'd need to remove the rubber bushings and outer shell to run the Delrin bushings. Which is exactly what I did with mine. You can see my installation of the Delrin bushings in my build thread, decent amount of pictures, etc. My "new" '74 Duster- or why I need a project like a hole in the head
 
I vote for the rubber bushings as well. Street cars hit pot holes etc. I'd rather have the rubber bushings absorb some of that energy instead of transferring it to the K-frame. Many reports of bushings without sleeves letting the control arm move around. Then you get adjustable strut rods to crank the bushing back into a bind to keep things in place. I'm with the others. Sometimes better to leave the race track parts for the race track. With a sleeved bushing deburr and run it.

I tried poly bushings on a daily driver once and they were shot in 3 years... Went back to stock bushings and they last longer...
 
Well...I guess I need to place a want ad.

Which side do you need? Does it have a sway bar tab? I have a few extra

I tried poly bushings on a daily driver once and they were shot in 3 years... Went back to stock bushings and they last longer...

The set of poly bushings I replaced on my Duster looked brand new after 12k miles, no wear at all. The set on my Challenger has done 14k so far with no issues. All daily street miles.

This, on the other hand, is a brand new rubber bushing that didn't lask 50k miles. Poly will outlast rubber if properly installed and cared for.
img_4501-jpg.jpg
 
Which side do you need? Does it have a sway bar tab? I have a few extra



The set of poly bushings I replaced on my Duster looked brand new after 12k miles, no wear at all. The set on my Challenger has done 14k so far with no issues. All daily street miles.

This, on the other hand, is a brand new rubber bushing that didn't lask 50k miles. Poly will outlast rubber if properly installed and cared for.
View attachment 1715087214


Try driving in Detroit with lots of pot holes...
 
Try driving in California, always in the top ten in the country for worst roads, frequently in the top 5. Our road maintenance is that non-existent. And yes, I have been to and driven in Detroit. Yeah, the roads suck there, they suck here too. I also frequently drive gravel roads, visiting my family involves 5 miles of user maintained gravel. Yes, I drive my Duster and Challenger out there all the time.

My Challenger has destroyed one set of Hotchkis heims, and is working on its second, in that same 14k miles. And the same driving conditions destroyed the rubber bushing I posted above. No issues with the poly LCA bushings at all. Properly installed and maintained the poly will outlast rubber bushings by a long shot.
 
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