It's time for a change

[Coyote Jack]

I built the 340 blower engine in my Demon 12 years ago so it is time for a change.

I looked at doing a first gen hemi but overall I think it would cost to much and also be a real PITA to make it all work.

I have been thinking of going with a Gen 3 hemi build using my current 6-71 blower and Fitech EFI. What I have found so far is that the cost of a used 6.4L is way to much considering I have to replace the rods and pistons no matter what with forged H-beams and forged pistons. The 5.7L engines are much more available and much cheaper. So I have been doing a little research and this is what I have come up with. Starting with a 2010 or newer 5.7 I would get the eagle heads even though the heads will need a spring upgrade for a better cam choice. I believe I would go with a stroker kit to bring it up to about 396 cubes. I don't think I would have to go with much more than a stock 6.4 cam with MDS delete so that would make the mopar 6.4 springs an option. Of course I would have to the MDS delete kit unless there is a cheaper way. Right now I think that the best option for ignition control would be the MSD 6-Hemi module and wiring harness. The Indy Modman intake might be the way to go under the blower. Headers are a crapshoot right now as I am going to be installing @HemiDenny torsion bar eliminator package soon. It's already ordered. I haven't looked into the flexplate options yet but I will be staying with my 727 tranny as it is in good shape and rated to 1000 + horsepower. Overall I believe I can put this together for under $10,000 and I will recoup some of that by selling my current 340 which is a pretty stout piece.

So my question is, does this look like a reasonable plan and what if anything would you change?

Is there anything else I am missing?

Jack

 

[DionR]

Just a couple of points, minor things.

The 6.4 valves springs don’t work on 5.7 heads. But there are cheap springs from Mopar that work with the 6.4 cam. I can get you a part number later if you want it.

MSD-6 module won’t work with the Eagle motors, tone ring is different. You can pull the crank and swap the tone ring, but the easier path is a different manufacturer, I just don’t remember who. I will try and find out tomorrow. I guess if you are stroking it, it may not be an issue though.

Don’t see anything else I can add. Doesn’t seem like a bad plan to me.

 

[Coyote Jack]

Just a couple of points, minor things.

The 6.4 valves springs don’t work on 5.7 heads. But there are cheap springs from Mopar that work with the 6.4 cam. I can get you a part number later if you want it.

MSD-6 module won’t work with the Eagle motors, tone ring is different. You can pull the crank and swap the tone ring, but the easier path is a different manufacturer, I just don’t remember who. I will try and find out tomorrow. I guess if you are stroking it, it may not be an issue though.

Don’t see anything else I can add. Doesn’t seem like a bad plan to me.

Yes, I knew about the tone ring. That can be addressed when I order the stroker kit. The springs I didn't know about. I would appreciate that part number if you have it. Thank You.

Jack

 

[Coyote Jack]

I should add that I have no idea how much HP this setup will make but it should be plenty if I run 12 lbs of boost which should be doable on pump gas.

Jack

 

[DionR]

Here is the part number of the springs I bought. 68277306AA

That's the p/n for individual springs. There is a kit p/n (P5160074) but when I bought mine it was cheaper to buy 16 individual springs rather than the kit. I paid less than $5 each while the kit was maybe $150. But didn't look to see if that is still the case.

I was going to suggest that instead of the 6.4 cam, since you are going to SC it, might be better to run the Hellcat cam. But then it hit me that at least with the 6.4 cam, if you lock out the cam phaser, the cam is kind of a dog. The 6.4 cam really only shines when VCT is retained, at least as far as I know.

Since you aren't keeping EFI, I assume you won't have VCT either. If you don't keep VCT, might not be worth it to use the 6.4 cam. And if you go with an aftermarket cam, they probably have their own spring suggestion.

Vice Grip Garage did a roots blower on a 5.7 for Duct Tape Drags, I think? No idea on power, but ProCharger get's about +160 HP with 7psi, so a stroker with 12 psi has to be over 600.

 

[DionR]

Just a thought, but if you don't keep VCT, might be cheaper and easier to start with the '08 pre-Eagle block. The cam would be cheaper and it would be easier to find a block, in theory.

The Eagle heads will bolt onto the pre-Eagle block, the only issue being compression ratio when the stock pistons are used. But if you are going to stroke and SC it, you have to deal with compression anyways. And the heads are the biggest advantage to the Eagle motors once VCT is removed.

I really can't think of any other advantages to the Eagle motor. Depending on engine placement, the later motors can help with AC compressor and oil filter adapter options, but I don't get the impression you care about AC, nor do I expect you will want to move your motor forward since you plan to use your 727. So none of those have any bearing on your project.

If you were going to keep the VCT, I would absolute go with an Eagle block and (if it were me) the HC cam. I think there are options, pretty sure Megasquirt and others can do VCT control, so there are options. I know the Holley Terminator X can do it, too. So you could do ignition and VCT control using one of those, and it might not be all that much more expensive than the MSD6 setup once you buy all the harnesses they don't include.

 

[DionR]

I should add that I have no idea how much HP this setup will make but it should be plenty if I run 12 lbs of boost which should be doable on pump gas.

Jack

No idea what boost they ran, and it is a 426 with ported heads, but they made 690 hp and 655 ft/#'s.

 

[Dart Frog]

I can totally understand your desire for a gen 3 retrofit project. But there are very few Roots blown 340s on the street and I would love to know a little more about your old setup. If you don't want to muddy the thread I understand maybe you could PM me. Thanks

 

[memike]

My son is doing a 5.7 hemi in his 88 short bed dodge truck, let me invite him here and do some reading, sounds like a great big move on hp Jack and Doable. Should be some good information in here @MeMikieJr

 

[DionR]

Here's a stock stroke 5.7 Eagle with a 6.4 cam and the phaser locked. Made good power, 423 HP 382 TQ. So maybe a 6.2 cam and no VCT isn't a bad option.

1994 Dakota is getting this G3 in a few weeks

 

[Coyote Jack]

No idea what boost they ran, and it is a 426 with ported heads, but they made 690 hp and 655 ft/#'s.

It's a shame they don't say how much it made N/A and how much boost they ran. Both very important numbers when trying to find out how much the blower is helping.

Jack

 

[Coyote Jack]

I can totally understand your desire for a gen 3 retrofit project. But there are very few Roots blown 340s on the street and I would love to know a little more about your old setup. If you don't want to muddy the thread I understand maybe you could PM me. Thanks

Your inbox is full.

Jack

 

[Coyote Jack]

I have been looking around and 5.7's with lifter ticks are very cheap. Seeing as I would be replacing all the internals is there any reason that I couldn't use one of these with the lifter tick?

Jack

 

[DionR]

I have been looking around and 5.7's with lifter ticks are very cheap. Seeing as I would be replacing all the internals is there any reason that I couldn't use one of these with the lifter tick?

Jack

A bad lifter generally takes out the bearings, but not sure about the bores. I don’t remember anyone having issues with that, and hopefully an overbore would fix it if it did. My guess is the bores don’t get any damage, but just a guess.

 

[DionR]

I would add that sometimes the tick is broken studs on the manifolds, not lifters.

Also, if it is an Eagle motor, you can pull the VCT solenoid. It has a screen and if the screen is clear the cam/lifter damage hasn’t gone far enough and the bores should be fine.

 

[Coyote Jack]

A bad lifter generally takes out the bearings, but not sure about the bores. I don’t remember anyone having issues with that, and hopefully an overbore would fix it if it did. My guess is the bores don’t get any damage, but just a guess.

From what I have been reading it is the roller that goes on the lifter and that takes out the cam lobe causing the tick. Seeing as I would be replacing the cam and lifters anyway I don't see that as a problem. Looks like this may be coming together.

Jack

 

[DionR]

From what I have been reading it is the roller that goes on the lifter and that takes out the cam lobe causing the tick. Seeing as I would be replacing the cam and lifters anyway I don't see that as a problem. Looks like this may be coming together.

Jack

Correct. I was referencing what get's damaged from the material ground off the cam when things have gone bad for long enough. I could have been clearer.

I also should have said that I wouldn't hesitate to pick up a motor that has a tick, for your project.

 

[Coyote Jack]

My little project took a step closer today. I found a core 5.7 out of a 2010 truck. The engine still runs and has no odd noises. The oil looks good although dirty. I got it for a song as well as it does have a coolant leak up top on the outside of the engine. I couldn't see where it was coming from but the price was good so it is now mine. Photos to follow next week.

Jack

 

[dusterdoug]

Quote: I haven't looked into the flexplate options yet

There are a ton of options out there, as the 727/904 use is pretty common.

 

[HR5058]

I use the ATI for my valiant.

 

[HR5058]

My little project took a step closer today. I found a core 5.7 out of a 2010 truck. The engine still runs and has no odd noises. The oil looks good although dirty. I got it for a song as well as it does have a coolant leak up top on the outside of the engine. I couldn't see where it was coming from but the price was good so it is now mine. Photos to follow next week.

Jack

Great pick up. That will have the Eagle heads, which are a much better choice than the 6.1 or pre eagle. There are plenty of places to get a stroker kit to get your 392 that will fit with your blower. However, there are a lot of very fast cars out there with SBE running on boost. Good luck on your build! Chuck

 

[memike]

Jack, my son is doing a 5.7 in an 88 short bed dodge truck now, new cam and lifters, eliminating the 4 cylinder shut down thing, a stand along harness, he knows more then I do.. but it's coming along
Utube page has been started on my 66 and my two sons, a lot of my sons videos on his, I will be doing more on my little 66 valiant, it's @SinureAndSons on YouTube, I may have spelled Sr wrong..