That's funny, because my neighbor once told me his high school buddy had a 273 '65 Valiant (I assume a Commando) that would lift a front tire. It was the fastest car in town!
Just how quick were the 273 Commando's in the Quarter-Mile.
- Thread starter 69 Cuda 440
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That's funny, because my neighbor once told me his high school buddy had a 273 '65 Valiant (I assume a Commando) that would lift a front tire. It was the fastest car in town!
Johnny V.
From what I can remember.
The first things that my mother put on her 1967 Barracuda for the 1968 campaign.
* Hooker Headers 'Fenderwell'
* Goodyear Slicks {7" Wide x 26" Tall}
* Cragar S/S Wheels {14" x 6"} all the way around
* Pinion Snubber
* 4.56 Gears
* Hurst Competition/Plus Shifter {She had to remove the 'center' Console}
* Stewart-Warner Tachometer
* Performance Curve {Locked-Up} Distributor
* 'Belden' Ignition Wires
I remember, we got the Goodyear Slicks {used} from the Centolanza Brothers in
Highland, New York.
And how about this for a price. She got the 4.56 Gears, complete and
in a '742' Case from Gratiot Auto Supply.
1968 Cost ..... $165.00
The Barracuda was now classed in J/Stock.
Still, with 'nothing' done to the Engine or Clutch Set-Up, she was down to
... 15.15's @ 92 MPH
Not Too Shabby For A Daily Driver And Family Car !
From what I can remember.
The first things that my mother put on her 1967 Barracuda for the 1968 campaign.
* Hooker Headers 'Fenderwell'
* Goodyear Slicks {7" Wide x 26" Tall}
* Cragar S/S Wheels {14" x 6"} all the way around
* Pinion Snubber
* 4.56 Gears
* Hurst Competition/Plus Shifter {She had to remove the 'center' Console}
* Stewart-Warner Tachometer
* Performance Curve {Locked-Up} Distributor
* 'Belden' Ignition Wires
I remember, we got the Goodyear Slicks {used} from the Centolanza Brothers in
Highland, New York.
And how about this for a price. She got the 4.56 Gears, complete and
in a '742' Case from Gratiot Auto Supply.
1968 Cost ..... $165.00
The Barracuda was now classed in J/Stock.
Still, with 'nothing' done to the Engine or Clutch Set-Up, she was down to
... 15.15's @ 92 MPH
Not Too Shabby For A Daily Driver And Family Car !
ProStocker273
MoPar N Jeep
How about a non stocker 65 barracuda built with performance parts of the time (cam, carb, intake, headers, a little weight reduction, etc) and 4.86 rear gear?
replicaracer43
Grumpy Old Man
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Kinda like a "D" stock dart? those were a bit of a disappointment for Chrysler as well, decent but not fast enough to be competive.
Once you put 'good' Rubber and Gears in the 273/235 HP
The Auburn Clutch Assembly, basically started to shred.
The Auburn Clutch Assembly, basically started to shred.
dynodonn
Well-Known Member
Just for grins here is some information on the fastest 1965 273/235 1965 Barracudas "back in the day." Granted these were modified cars but show the potential of the 273 CI cars in the Barracuda body running in AHRA & NHRA Junior Stock classes.
Doug Patterson's 1965 Barracuda "Brand X Eliminator" 273/235 HP in F/SA.
Won F/SA class at the 1965 NHRA Springnationals at Bristol.
Also Runner-Up in Stock Eliminator.
The Golden Commando's (Hamilton Motors, Detroit) "GOLDFISH"
Won F/S Class at the 1965 NHRA Indy Nationals.
Set AHRA F/S class record in 1965 with a 13.47 @ 103.68.
Supposedly had acid-dipped fenders, doors and thinner side glass,
among other lightened components.
Doug Patterson's 1965 Barracuda "Brand X Eliminator" 273/235 HP in F/SA.
Won F/SA class at the 1965 NHRA Springnationals at Bristol.
Also Runner-Up in Stock Eliminator.
The Golden Commando's (Hamilton Motors, Detroit) "GOLDFISH"
Won F/S Class at the 1965 NHRA Indy Nationals.
Set AHRA F/S class record in 1965 with a 13.47 @ 103.68.
Supposedly had acid-dipped fenders, doors and thinner side glass,
among other lightened components.
dynodonn
Well-Known Member
You may have seen these before.
Dyno Don
Great Posting,
Doug Patterson's 'Brand X' was factory-prepped, and dialed in for sure in 1965.
The Golden Commando's 'Goldfish' was 'lightened' and also highly-prepped.
Ted Spehar also ran a 1965 Barracuda 273/235 HP in F/Stock in 1965. Another
hot ticket Barracuda.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding my Mother's 1967 Barracuda '273 Commando'.
She got to 14.95's @ 93 MPH in mid-1968 classed in {J/Stock} before
the Auburn Clutch blew apart.
Very surprised it lasted as long as it did.
ProStocker273
MoPar N Jeep
So brand X barracuda and golden commando would be considered max effort 273s for there time or max effort stock drag racing? I've heard of 273 cars running 11s and even 10s ( with more current parts, tires, etc) but never seen proof. I'm just curious what one built would run not confined by stock class rules..
1965 Information
'Brand-X' .... F/SA
Doug Patterson was running 14.00's @ 98 MPH all damn year.
He did set the NHRA 'F/SA' National Record in June 1965 at the Springnationals
with a 13.98 @ 98.99 MPH
The record was 'Altitude Adjusted' to 13.62 @ 102.95 MPH
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Goldfish' ...... F/S
John Dallafior blew away the NHRA 'F/S' National Record at the Indy Nationals
by winning Class.
They also ran under the Record during Class Run-Offs, when they hit
a 13.82 @ 101.03 MPH
The record was 'Altitude Adjusted to 13.44 @ 103.68 MPH.
The 'Goldfish' was lightened by {150 lbs.}, something that was 'not' picked up
by the NHRA Techs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'The Politician' ...... F/SA
Was built by Ted Spehar {Woodward Garage} and campaigned by Ralph Costa.
Ralph won the F/SA Class at the Indy Nationals, and was routinely running
in the 14.05 range at 97 MPH.
With a 'Racer Brown' Camshaft and Carter #3447 {600 CFM} Carburetor,
they were hitting the 13.60's.
'Brand-X' .... F/SA
Doug Patterson was running 14.00's @ 98 MPH all damn year.
He did set the NHRA 'F/SA' National Record in June 1965 at the Springnationals
with a 13.98 @ 98.99 MPH
The record was 'Altitude Adjusted' to 13.62 @ 102.95 MPH
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Goldfish' ...... F/S
John Dallafior blew away the NHRA 'F/S' National Record at the Indy Nationals
by winning Class.
They also ran under the Record during Class Run-Offs, when they hit
a 13.82 @ 101.03 MPH
The record was 'Altitude Adjusted to 13.44 @ 103.68 MPH.
The 'Goldfish' was lightened by {150 lbs.}, something that was 'not' picked up
by the NHRA Techs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'The Politician' ...... F/SA
Was built by Ted Spehar {Woodward Garage} and campaigned by Ralph Costa.
Ralph won the F/SA Class at the Indy Nationals, and was routinely running
in the 14.05 range at 97 MPH.
With a 'Racer Brown' Camshaft and Carter #3447 {600 CFM} Carburetor,
they were hitting the 13.60's.
dynodonn
Well-Known Member
69 Cuda 440:
How could I leave out "The Politician?" Here's some photos of the Ted Spehar/Bob Costa 65 Cuda.
How could I leave out "The Politician?" Here's some photos of the Ted Spehar/Bob Costa 65 Cuda.
dibbons
Well-Known Member
I have posted this before but to answer the capabilities of a street legal 1965 Plymouth Valiant 273 in the period 1975-1980 in my case was a best ET of 12.72 @ 108 mph at Fremont Raceway, CA
I built the motor at my Community College auto technology class:
All bearing and piston ring clearances set to maximum allowable factory specifications. Reciprocating assembly balanced.
Stock block bored .060 over to 282 CID with deck surfaces cleaned up by machining.
Stock connecting rods (beams polished, shot-peened, aftermarket rod bolts)
Forged steel crankshaft (was told it was for a 318 truck, but may have been stock 273)
TRW domed forged aluminum commando pistons (notches deepened with tool for valve clearance) 10:5 to 1 (advertised)
340 windage tray, melling high volume oil pump, stock oil pan lowered two inches
Stock cylinder heads w/steel shim gskt (ports matched to gaskets with dremel tool and deck surfaces machined)
stock valves polished
Stock iron rocker arms with aluminum valve retainers and aftermarket pushrods and locks, dual valve springs, teflon seals
Iskendarian 1012C solid cam 312 degrees advertised @ .580 lift
Edelbrock 340 TM5 Tarantula aluminum intake manifold with 600 CFM double pumper Holley
Holley electric fuel pump, pressure regulator, aluminum cool can (ice)
Mopar add-on electronic ignition, total advance 35 degrees, Packard 440 wires, Rajah clips
Cyclone fenderwell headers (unequal length)
Mopar close ratio A833 four speed (prepared by Pepe Estrada) with performance clutch and 30# steel flywheel, Hurst shifter with "T" handle
Lakewood scattershield and driveshaft loop, pinion snubber, Super Stock leaf springs
Solid steel motor mounts, frame connectors, driveshaft loop, SS rear shocks
M & H 10 inch wide slicks (ten pounds pressure), 26 " tall, black steel rims w/rim screws
Centerline front rims with 15" VW tires
1970 Dodge Challenger 8 3/4 rear end with 4.56 sure grip
Vehicle weighed 2960# (manual steering and brakes)
One brief water burnout in second gear.
Clutched engaged at green light at 6000 RPM, full power shifts at 6000 RPM, trap 6400 RPM and still pulling strong past finish line.
P.S. Orange flex-a-lite fan, firewall brace (to eliminate flex from heavy duty pressure plate), trunk mounted battery, velocity stack, heat crossover blocked with liquid steel (however, the liquid steel eventually began to break up). Thanks to 69 CUDA 440 for reminding me what I had done but left off the above list.
I built the motor at my Community College auto technology class:
All bearing and piston ring clearances set to maximum allowable factory specifications. Reciprocating assembly balanced.
Stock block bored .060 over to 282 CID with deck surfaces cleaned up by machining.
Stock connecting rods (beams polished, shot-peened, aftermarket rod bolts)
Forged steel crankshaft (was told it was for a 318 truck, but may have been stock 273)
TRW domed forged aluminum commando pistons (notches deepened with tool for valve clearance) 10:5 to 1 (advertised)
340 windage tray, melling high volume oil pump, stock oil pan lowered two inches
Stock cylinder heads w/steel shim gskt (ports matched to gaskets with dremel tool and deck surfaces machined)
stock valves polished
Stock iron rocker arms with aluminum valve retainers and aftermarket pushrods and locks, dual valve springs, teflon seals
Iskendarian 1012C solid cam 312 degrees advertised @ .580 lift
Edelbrock 340 TM5 Tarantula aluminum intake manifold with 600 CFM double pumper Holley
Holley electric fuel pump, pressure regulator, aluminum cool can (ice)
Mopar add-on electronic ignition, total advance 35 degrees, Packard 440 wires, Rajah clips
Cyclone fenderwell headers (unequal length)
Mopar close ratio A833 four speed (prepared by Pepe Estrada) with performance clutch and 30# steel flywheel, Hurst shifter with "T" handle
Lakewood scattershield and driveshaft loop, pinion snubber, Super Stock leaf springs
Solid steel motor mounts, frame connectors, driveshaft loop, SS rear shocks
M & H 10 inch wide slicks (ten pounds pressure), 26 " tall, black steel rims w/rim screws
Centerline front rims with 15" VW tires
1970 Dodge Challenger 8 3/4 rear end with 4.56 sure grip
Vehicle weighed 2960# (manual steering and brakes)
One brief water burnout in second gear.
Clutched engaged at green light at 6000 RPM, full power shifts at 6000 RPM, trap 6400 RPM and still pulling strong past finish line.
P.S. Orange flex-a-lite fan, firewall brace (to eliminate flex from heavy duty pressure plate), trunk mounted battery, velocity stack, heat crossover blocked with liquid steel (however, the liquid steel eventually began to break up). Thanks to 69 CUDA 440 for reminding me what I had done but left off the above list.
I need a class like that. Thanks for posting.
A lot of what Dibbons did helped the cause but the main components that made his 273 successful is: cam 312°/ .580 (not for the faint of heart), TM5 intake, headers, slicks, and 4.56 gear.
docdodge440
Well-Known Member
Its not about how fast or what you can build. Theres allways somebody faster with deeper bank accounts. Its about how much fun you have, and how dependable your car is. Trust me I know, ante no fun trying to get your car home with a busted 8-3/4. When I bought my 74 scamp, it had a tired 318. I kept that motor untill I made the switch to the R/B. I used it to do the chassis testing. I had a frickin blast with it. Best day was 34 1/4 mile full throttle passes. Never let me down, never blew, drove it to work on Monday.Best time -14.68. The R/B runs 3 seconds faster and a lot more evpensive to drive. So I guess If your not hung up on low E/T Have a ball. Id rather be the heir then the hound. Just trip the light a split second before the other driver!!
"It was nothing really radical," Dave, the owner of Koffel's Place in Huron, Ohio, admits today. "When we first started out with it, nobody was sure how it'd work; it looked good on paper. We began with a Racer Brown cam and an Edelbrock intake with two inline Carter carbs on it, so it was pretty mild, and even like that, we set the record right out. Ultimately, we put Webers on it, using a hand-fabricated intake manifold built by a friend of mine named Joe Tribus, who was really good. We also put a Racer Brown roller cam into it, then Harvey built us a nice Crane roller setup that really worked well, and Jere Stahl built some real headers for it. It had the factory standard forged-steel crank and steel rods at first, but with our engine speed, we blacked a few crank journals and finally put aluminum rods in it.
"The heads were 273 heads with 392 Hemi valves, which had been homologated with the NHRA. The valves were way bigger than what the cylinder bore was, so we built a fixture and put these great big 'wart eyes' on the cylinder wall tops. We also milled the surfaces to get the compression back up. The funny thing was the rules allowed you to put these big valves in the heads, but you were not allowed to port them. So you had this basic five-angle valve job, and then you had to get away with whatever you could do on the dogleg angle in the port."
http://www.hotrod.com/features/history/stories/1420-battle-of-the-heavyweights-cfx-racing/
"The heads were 273 heads with 392 Hemi valves, which had been homologated with the NHRA. The valves were way bigger than what the cylinder bore was, so we built a fixture and put these great big 'wart eyes' on the cylinder wall tops. We also milled the surfaces to get the compression back up. The funny thing was the rules allowed you to put these big valves in the heads, but you were not allowed to port them. So you had this basic five-angle valve job, and then you had to get away with whatever you could do on the dogleg angle in the port."
http://www.hotrod.com/features/history/stories/1420-battle-of-the-heavyweights-cfx-racing/
Back in Time
Well-Known Member
At what altitude ? Or are those numbers altitude corrected?
Thread Title
I was trying to stay with 'Stock' and NHRA 'Legal' Stock 273/235 HP cars.
As for back in the day, you pretty much were limited to 'Weber' and 'Schieffer' for
9.25" Clutch Set-Ups.
* Auburn ....... #1375 lb. Load-Rate
* Weber ........ #2300 lb. Load-Rate
* Schieffer ..... #2500 lb. Load-Rate
My mother got a Weber {Pressure Plate and Clutch-Disc}, which was
a very good 'friction maker'.
It was worth nearly 3/10's over the 'stock' Auburn unit.
It got the Barracuda down into the 14.70's with 4.56 Gears and 7" Wide Goodyear
Slicks.
But, the 'Weber' Clutch-Disc didn't hold up that long. Maybe for 4-weeks
{15 to 20 runs} before it faded away.
I was trying to stay with 'Stock' and NHRA 'Legal' Stock 273/235 HP cars.
As for back in the day, you pretty much were limited to 'Weber' and 'Schieffer' for
9.25" Clutch Set-Ups.
* Auburn ....... #1375 lb. Load-Rate
* Weber ........ #2300 lb. Load-Rate
* Schieffer ..... #2500 lb. Load-Rate
My mother got a Weber {Pressure Plate and Clutch-Disc}, which was
a very good 'friction maker'.
It was worth nearly 3/10's over the 'stock' Auburn unit.
It got the Barracuda down into the 14.70's with 4.56 Gears and 7" Wide Goodyear
Slicks.
But, the 'Weber' Clutch-Disc didn't hold up that long. Maybe for 4-weeks
{15 to 20 runs} before it faded away.
The Auburn clutches were a joke. Just a low buck production clutch. I thought they were just used for slant 6 applications only.
So, then, IF a guy has a 273 commando, 4 speed and 3.55's in a light early A-body, my '65 B-body, 318 2bbl, auto and 2.94's would have taken him in the 1320. Cool..
clifcuda65
Old Mopar Geezer
Yup... Slant 6 Clutches... That's what they pretty much were... After blowing apart more then a few of them... I now run with the 340 Bell housing, flywheel and clutch assembly on my 65 273 Commando "S"... And, ain't had no problems since... and loving the hard launches!!! (now and again that is) :burnout:
And back then (mid to late 60's), running in the 15's seemed pretty fast... but keep in mind, we all ran on some pretty "skinny" tires as I recall (compared with today's wider tires/wheels and today's rubber compounds)
Clif:coffee2:
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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As I recall, the stock 70 Dart I had, went 14.4@98mph on E70-14 Polyglass tires.I seem to remember the race weight was 3330, and 130 of it was me.
BB E-bodies weren't much faster.
BB E-bodies weren't much faster.
ProStocker273
MoPar N Jeep
Hey 69 Cuda 440 my 1965 barracuda has a aluminum flywheel 122 tooth I believe that says weber on it. Is that something that would be used in stock racing back then? Or did I find a marine flywheel. Its for a 9.5 clutch but I've got a 10`` in there now. Sorry for the off topic
Let's not get 'crazy' now.
Just saying, if the '65 A-body with Commando 4-speed and 3.55's went a best of 16.03 stock, and my '65 B-body 318 ('85 LA stock using the 273 manifolds the car came with) 2bbl with 2.94's and auto went 15.90's, I'm in for the win, correct? I believe my dragway is at 600ft above sea level, that could be a big difference if the Commando is at 3k ft. Just say'n
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