KH Hub removal ?

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1967formulaS

1967formulaS

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Hi Guys,

I have just finished rebuilding my KH Callipers so now and I have been trying to separate my old Rotor hubs from my old rotors, so I can fit the hubs to my new rotors. (67 Formula S)
I had the rotors soaking for a week prior to this to make pulling them apart easier, however it doesn't want to separate.
I have even tried to press them out with my little 6Tonne press at home, and nothing, didn't move them at all?
I am at the stage where maybe I should cut them off. Problem is I am unsure what Studs I should use to replace them. I did find something at NAPA that looks similar P/N NOE6413201? any suggestions, advise etc. :)
:banghead:
 
Removing a worn out rotor from the hub on a Kelsey Hayes, 4 piston, disc brake system is a simple task.
Don't know why your having difficulty, or how your trying to go about it without a picture or two.
But i read that you have a press, so all that you need to do is press out the studs.
They come right out with the use of your press.
You have removed the studs, didn't you?
Thats what holds the rotor and hub together.
Then just get a hammer, and hit the old rotor away from the hub, and your done.
Don't mess up your old hub, as those things now a days are unobtanium, dynosaur eggs, hens teeth, to find here in the USA, and i see your in Aussie Land, where something like this would be like trying to find that missing 777.
 

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The studs were swaged from the factory, front shoulder is rolled to keep the rotor tight to the hub. There is a special cutter to remove the swage. This way you should not have to remove the studs. Or you can try the brute force way of hammering the studs out and hope you do not damage the hubs.
 
Hi Hemi71x, thanks for your post.
I know how they come apart and I thought this would be one of the more simple tasks, however the studs are seized and wont budge. I tried tapping the studs in so they fall out from the rear, ( I suppose they can only come out 1 way) and they didn't move. I then sat the rotor on the press and tried to press the stud down through the rear, but again no movement and I had a lot of pressure on it... maybe cutting them is the only way left??

Ill get some pics up in the morning.
 
The proper cutter as stated above is the proper method. If you use a bigger hammer you will get them apart eventually. You would probably need new lug studs.
 
Guys, lets get something straight here on the removal of brake rotors from hubs on two piece applications, (rotor & hub) wether it's Kelsey Hayes, Bendix, Budd, Delco Moraine.
Studs are just pressed in on all of them and they are not "swedged"
DRUM BRAKE applications are, NOT disc brake applications.
Drum brakes are thin, thats why they are swedged originally, and a disc brake hub is probably 3/8 inch thick.

Some of you may know me here as a mechanic that has beem rebuilding these Kelsey Hayes brake systems, Budd, Bendix, also, and also rebuilding of Upper and lower control arms.
Then selling parts here, on other web sites, and ebay.

i have kept track and have rebuilt 24 sets of these Kelsey Hayes brakes in the past 7, 8 years.
That's right 24, probably 4 sets a year.
I had an extensive collection of these parts from going to the Pick-N-Pull's for 30+ years since they invented them around my area in the 1980's.

I always disassembled rotors from the hubs in my rebuilding, and never had to do anything more then press out the studs, or even hammer them out if they were no good from the beginning and weren't going to be used again.

The reason factory maintenance manuals don't have a written procedure to remove hubs from the rotors, is because back in the day, when you bought a rotor, it WAS a rotor and hub assembly right from the git go.
All you had to do was take the rotor out of the box and then install it.

It's only been in recent years that manufactures have come back with rotors for these braking systems that you have to put a rotor onto the hub.

I would suggest that the op look and see if anyone spot welded the studs onto the backs of the hubs, from some long ago, previous repair, to keep the studs from falling out.

If the op still can't get studs out, then yes, sacrifice them, cut them out, and buy new studs.
But if you have to replace all 10 studs that's going to get expensive.
I have seen stud prices all over the place, from the 2 dollar range, to around 4 dollars each.

But too bad the op can't bring the old parts to me.
I will get them out.

I'm not going to get into an internet pissing contest, dog fight, with anyone about the R & R of rotors from hubs, but there shouldn't be any reason why it can't be performed without difficulty if everything is factory.

Jim V.
 
We will see. I've had originals since the 60's, untouched, and unmolested they were swaged. I've done more KH brakes than you. Let's see the OP's pics. They are swaged or not, should be easy to see. Seems we did a measurement last thread like this.
 
66fs said:
We will see. I've had originals since the 60's, untouched, and unmolested they were swaged. I've done more KH brakes than you. Let's see the OP's pics.
Click to expand...

So, you've been around a long time then, too.
All the ones that i have done had to have been original ones, also.
Tell you what.
Next time one of these needs rebuilding, lets get together, and have a show down, so to speak, and get together on this bs about swedged, or not swedged issue.
 
hemi71x said:
So, you've been around a long time then, too.
All the ones that i have done had to have been original ones, also.
Tell you what.
Next time one of these needs rebuilding, lets get together, and have a show down, so to speak, and get together on this bs about swedged, or not swedged issue.
Click to expand...

You have to find an unmolested disc and hub. What are the chances? I did not save the old scrap studs. It is easy, measure the leading edge of one of your new studs, and post it. If anyone is having trouble getting their hubs off, they can measure the stud that sticks through the disc side. If it is larger, it is swaged. If not, it should come right off without removing studs. No BS involved. If they are not swaged, why do you have to remove the studs to remove the disc? The studs are pressed in from the inside of the hub.
 
Not swedged. No way, no how. The press fit shoulder and knurling is what keeps them together.

Here's the verbiage from the 1967 FSM:

Removing Wheel Stud From Hub
Should it become necessary to remove or install a wheel stud because of damage, proceed as follows:
1) Remove damaged stud, using an arbor press.
2) Install new stud into position and press into place.

That's it.

I took an original (OE) set apart last year. The studs came out in the press like BUTTER. Three pumps from the press ram and they were out. So simple even a caveman could do it. Heck I even used the press to put them back together. Imagine that.

You could probably also give 'em a few taps with an air hammer or even a couple whacks with a BFH would knock them out. (don't do that unless you're replacing studs).

If the studs in question were swedged, someone in a shop did it probably because 'that's what they thought should be done'. Wrong!
 
hemi71x said:
I had an extensive collection of these parts from going to the Pick-N-Pull's for 30+ years since they invented them around my area in the 1980's.
Jim V.
Click to expand...
Explains why I have never seen any front disk 72- A-bodies at the PickNPull's, especially the Rancho Cordova one I usually visit. I would buy a set of hemi71x refurb'ed ones except they cost almost what I paid for my 65 Dart, not that they aren't worth it to someone less cheap than I.
 
Ya, at one time, many years ago, these brake systems were findable on donor cars at the wrecking yards, but not anymore, in this day and age.
Can't remember how many years it's been now, that i have come across any Kelsey Hayes brakes at all the Pick-N-Pull's that i frequent.
Here's a picture of what my rebuild looks like when all done.
 

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I'm Just about to head home from work, so I will get some good pictures together and post soon. My Callipers and rotors look very original so I will get pic's from the front and rear. I appreciate everyone's input.
 
Great information ,here.... As a parts guy,good to know. Thank you.
 
Ok guys, so I managed to press 2 of the studs out, however they did not come out easily. The other 3 are not coming out and have started to bend under pressure. I am scared that I may crack the hub if I continue with the press method. Here are the pics, apologies for the quality, its getting dark here.
 

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Are you using any penetration lubrication?.. This,and patience.....
 
Yeah had em in the parts washer for a week and then used inox spray.
Sorry guys it's automatically resizing my pics
 

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Heat the remaining ones up.
Use one of these.
The "flame wrench" is your friend.
 

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1967formulaS said:
Or is it, :)
Click to expand...

attachment.php


Proves my point. Thanks. Carry on
 
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