Let's Build a 416 with Cast Iron Heads and Manifolds

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BrianT

BrianT

Here we go again...
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As the title suggests, I'm going to build another stroker engine. I've already had a 500hp 408 in my Dart, but now I want to build something different for my Duster. I'll use this thread to discuss ideas and thoughts that people might have about the build. The car is a 340 "tribute" car so I'm not worried about it looking 100% stock, and I'm not doing any FAST racing, but that is the theme I'm going for. I want the engine to appear to be stock or close to stock looking to the naked eye. I'll probably paint an Edelbrock intake but NO aluminum heads or headers. The goal will be to build a 12 second street car that appears to be basically stock. I'll be running a stock 4 speed and 3.55 gears.

I have a standard 1970 340 block and a set of J heads that are untouched. I will be running the Hughes/Scat forged rotating assembly. And am going to run a mechanical roller camshaft. I realize that iron heads and manifolds will set some limitations, but I'm not opposed to working with them as best as possible to achieve the end goals. I'm starting with bare cores, so everything will have to be replaced any way. Camshaft will be custom ground to work with the heads and exhaust.

Let's have some fun with this and you guys can spend my money as you see fit. Anybody who wants to make negative comments about it, save it for your build thread. I get it. It's not going to be everyone's cup of tea. But it's mine and that's what I want to do. And GO!

IMG_3499.jpg
 
I’m going to follow this closely… I have 2 340s in need of doing a stroker on….

You sure you don’t want to do some aluminum heads? Painted they look just like stock heads… The speed master CNC heads works great and will cost lots less than you’ll put into the stock heads to make them flow the same.
 
BrianT said:
As the title suggests, I'm going to build another stroker engine. I've already had a 500hp 408 in my Dart, but now I want to build something different for my Duster. I'll use this thread to discuss ideas and thoughts that people might have about the build. The car is a 340 "tribute" car so I'm not worried about it looking 100% stock, and I'm not doing any FAST racing, but that is the theme I'm going for. I want the engine to appear to be stock or close to stock looking to the naked eye. I'll probably paint an Edelbrock intake but NO aluminum heads or headers. The goal will be to build a 12 second street car that appears to be basically stock. I'll be running a stock 4 speed and 3.55 gears.

I have a standard 1970 340 block and a set of J heads that are untouched. I will be running the Hughes/Scat forged rotating assembly. And am going to run a mechanical roller camshaft. I realize that iron heads and manifolds will set some limitations, but I'm not opposed to working with them as best as possible to achieve the end goals. I'm starting with bare cores, so everything will have to be replaced any way. Camshaft will be custom ground to work with the heads and exhaust.

Let's have some fun with this and you guys can spend my money as you see fit. Anybody who wants to make negative comments about it, save it for your build thread. I get it. It's not going to be everyone's cup of tea. But it's mine and that's what I want to do. And GO!

View attachment 1716112358
Click to expand...
Subscribed. Are you thinking about a little port work to the heads? A gasket batch and some bowl blending can make a difference. A little back cut on the valves works too. You can work the ports of the manifolds as well.
 
If you can come up with some 974 castings and have them proffessionally ported, they will support a 416 pretty happily into the 11's, especially with a solid roller cam. Edebrock LD340 or regular Performer RPM would work well and help with the stock look. I really like this build principle, too, because there were some seriously fast cars built before the advent of relatively inexpensive aluminum cylinder heads and stroker cranks.
 
DentalDart said:
I’m going to follow this closely… I have 2 340s in need of doing a stroker on….

You sure you don’t want to do some aluminum heads? Painted they look just like stock heads… The speed master CNC heads works great and will cost lots less than you’ll put into the stock heads to make them flow the same.
Click to expand...
Speed master heads look nothing like a factory head.
 
BrianT said:
As the title suggests, I'm going to build another stroker engine. I've already had a 500hp 408 in my Dart, but now I want to build something different for my Duster. I'll use this thread to discuss ideas and thoughts that people might have about the build. The car is a 340 "tribute" car so I'm not worried about it looking 100% stock, and I'm not doing any FAST racing, but that is the theme I'm going for. I want the engine to appear to be stock or close to stock looking to the naked eye. I'll probably paint an Edelbrock intake but NO aluminum heads or headers. The goal will be to build a 12 second street car that appears to be basically stock. I'll be running a stock 4 speed and 3.55 gears.

I have a standard 1970 340 block and a set of J heads that are untouched. I will be running the Hughes/Scat forged rotating assembly. And am going to run a mechanical roller camshaft. I realize that iron heads and manifolds will set some limitations, but I'm not opposed to working with them as best as possible to achieve the end goals. I'm starting with bare cores, so everything will have to be replaced any way. Camshaft will be custom ground to work with the heads and exhaust.

Let's have some fun with this and you guys can spend my money as you see fit. Anybody who wants to make negative comments about it, save it for your build thread. I get it. It's not going to be everyone's cup of tea. But it's mine and that's what I want to do. And GO!

View attachment 1716112358
Click to expand...
 
Cast iron heads are fine, as long as they have that little W2 cast in to them.
:thumbsup:
 
toolmanmike said:
Subscribed. Are you thinking about a little port work to the heads? A gasket batch and some bowl blending can make a difference. A little back cut on the valves works too. You can work the ports of the manifolds
Click to expand...
I'm thinking about a LOT of port work to the heads and maybe the manifolds.
Garrett Ellison said:
If you can come up with some 974 castings and have them proffessionally ported, they will support a 416 pretty happily into the 11's, especially with a solid roller cam. Edebrock LD340 or regular Performer RPM would work well and help with the stock look. I really like this build principle, too, because there were some seriously fast cars built before the advent of relatively inexpensive aluminum cylinder heads and stroker cranks.
Click to expand...
I have a painted Performer on my 318 now and you can hardly tell.
1688926295322.png
 
The Hensley 416 that I'm duplicating because of a cracked block had W2 cast iron heads, it was in a 2800lbs car and went 9.40s. My car is 2500lbs with a 408 in it now, hopefully when the 416 goes in it will be in the 9.20 to 9.30 range. The dyno sheets of the original engine showed 623hp @ 6400, so I probably won't twist it higher that 6800.
 
Let's keep the W2 heads out of the equation. I have a set of 915 J heads that I will be using.
 
Strong stock 340 with nothing but traction and carb and good manifold back exhaust go 13.0000s tuned
roller cam
stroker
ported stock heads
high 11s low 12s just as post #4 said
nothing like sucking the paint of chevy or ford pop the hood you have manifolds they are fully built
 
Ran 12.20’s and worked it down to 11.80’s with a 410 using New Zealand EQ heads (w/1.92” intakes, not much for any porting other than guide boss tapering) using an Isky 280 Mega hyd w/1.6 rr, and a set of Dougs headers and 4.10 rear.
Certainly you could get those iron heads to flow as well as those EQ Magnum heads after some handiwork, you’re likely gonna use more cam and even with iron exhaust manifolds (reworked you say?) you should easily hit low low 12’s without breaking a sweat and might (very likely) crack into the 11’s I think.

I know the prevailing consensus when it comes to strokers is more head.....more cam, more header, more torque converter more of everything in general. Sure, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Pretty rewarding when you can do something with seemingly less:thumbsup:
 
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Do you have a particular solid roller picked out yet?
 
Headers were/are a popular bolt in any time period.Probably help your goals with a set.

Talk to some cam grinders/FAST engine builders and see what they say. Good luck with the build.
 
We are building the same thing for a street car . 894 X heads, 70 manifolds, older mopar aluminum intake. 416 stroker kit out of my race engine we're taking apart .

I'll be watching your build. Can't wait to hear it on a video
 
Garrett Ellison said:
If you’re dead set on using exhaust manifolds, Herbert’s has the option to modify the LSA of their shelf grinds. I’m partial to this grind for that setup with the 3.55 gears and four speed, but with a little wider LSA to reduce the overlap.
CE6K 245/255 [email protected], 585/600, 106LC, 2500-6800
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nice cam to much lift for j heads imo
416 will have a boat load low end
tm5 and 750 dp sounds right take away some low end add mid and top
235 245@50 520 ish lift 110 lsa
 
If the heads highest flow is at a certain lift and you only cam it with a lift in that range than how much time is it really open at that lift? Not much. I’ve always understood (I know I’ve read that here and over on Speed-Talk among other sources) that you want more lift (to a point) so the valve spends theoretically more time in that usable lift range as it reaches a higher lift where it’s not really open there very long anyway. Maybe the flow bench experts can clarify or expound on this?

Edit: yup, I lnew I’ve read about this elsewhere. (again, more lift “to a point”)

One example: lift vs. peak head flow - Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk
 
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As stated before, the cam will be custom ground knowing the limits of the heads and manifolds. At this point we are just bench racing and spit balling ideas. The first step will be to get my heads blasted and magged for cracks. I have an engine builder not far away that I will use. I'm not sure if he wants to work on iron heads though. I'll give him a call this week.
 
can that extrude honing process still be done? that'd help open up and smooth the inside of the cast manifolds for better flow. i've not heard much about it since when was it the 90's? basically an abrasive paste forced through under pressure to 'port' whatever you're working on even where a die grinder won't reach.
neil.
 
mygasser said:
can that extrude honing process still be done? that'd help open up and smooth the inside of the cast manifolds for better flow. i've not heard much about it since when was it the 90's? basically an abrasive paste forced through under pressure to 'port' whatever you're working on even where a die grinder won't reach.
neil.
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extrude hone before.jpg


extrude hone.jpg


It has to help but I don't know if it's worth the price.
 
mygasser said:
can that extrude honing process still be done? that'd help open up and smooth the inside of the cast manifolds for better flow. i've not heard much about it since when was it the 90's? basically an abrasive paste forced through under pressure to 'port' whatever you're working on even where a die grinder won't reach.
neil.
Click to expand...
my understanding was it picked up 3 or 4 hp= a waste of coin he wants mid 12s he can get 11s low 12s with stated parts
the cam will make it or break it
 
BrianT said:
As stated before, the cam will be custom ground knowing the limits of the heads and manifolds. At this point we are just bench racing and spit balling ideas. The first step will be to get my heads blasted and magged for cracks. I have an engine builder not far away that I will use. I'm not sure if he wants to work on iron heads though. I'll give him a call this week.
Click to expand...
If you want quench could get pistons with a quench pad. Any 360/340/5.9 manifolds should be fine there ain't a huge power difference between them, but the best combo is suppose to be one 340 and one magnum forget which ones. A little head work and the cam should get you there no problem.
 
BrianT said:
As the title suggests, I'm going to build another stroker engine. I've already had a 500hp 408 in my Dart, but now I want to build something different for my Duster. I'll use this thread to discuss ideas and thoughts that people might have about the build. The car is a 340 "tribute" car so I'm not worried about it looking 100% stock, and I'm not doing any FAST racing, but that is the theme I'm going for. I want the engine to appear to be stock or close to stock looking to the naked eye. I'll probably paint an Edelbrock intake but NO aluminum heads or headers. The goal will be to build a 12 second street car that appears to be basically stock. I'll be running a stock 4 speed and 3.55 gears.

I have a standard 1970 340 block and a set of J heads that are untouched. I will be running the Hughes/Scat forged rotating assembly. And am going to run a mechanical roller camshaft. I realize that iron heads and manifolds will set some limitations, but I'm not opposed to working with them as best as possible to achieve the end goals. I'm starting with bare cores, so everything will have to be replaced any way. Camshaft will be custom ground to work with the heads and exhaust.

Let's have some fun with this and you guys can spend my money as you see fit. Anybody who wants to make negative comments about it, save it for your build thread. I get it. It's not going to be everyone's cup of tea. But it's mine and that's what I want to do. And GO!

View attachment 1716112358
Click to expand...

Heads options google search less than a minute.

 
273 said:
If you want quench could get pistons with a quench pad. Any 360/340/5.9 manifolds should be fine there ain't a huge power difference between them, but the best combo is suppose to be one 340 and one magnum forget which ones. A little head work and the cam should get you there no problem.
Click to expand...
My machinist set the quench this way on my 408.
 
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