Lifter Bore

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Zippie#7

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O.K., here we go, I am rebuilding a 71 340 engine. Today I was putting in a new cam and hydraulic lifters when I discovered that the bore on the driver side next to the fire wall was very lose!, about 8000-10000 lose. I went to the machine shop and asked the machine guy what he thought, he said it was a "no go" !
He told me that at one time Ma Mopar was selling over sized lifters, but no more that he knows of. He said that I might find something on line that might address this problem. I am hoping that someone on FABO could give me some direction.
Thanks, George Hinkel
 
Yup, your screwed. Crane made those and stopped about 20 years ago. There are none. Your only hope it to have the bore bushed.
 
Hmmmmm, OK, who would sleeve a bore for me, the machine shop I used said they "do not" sleeve lifter bores.
 
You'll have to do a search in your area to find a machine shop that does. Some do and some don't. Just have to call around. Ask questions. Good luck
 
I've got a 340 block layin' out there that's..................................................
 
There was a tool shop downriver in michigan that repaired oversize lifter bores for the minivan v6 engine named Future Tool.

Aftet the bore is bushed, you have to redrill the oil passage holes through again.
 
The lifter bore does not have to be bushed. There is a process similar to valve guide knurling that tightens the bore back up.
 
I wouldn't knurl a lifter bore. It's a temperary fix at best and given the importance of the angles and the .008-.010" it's out - I don't think you could take up the slop and get it right anyway.
IMO - the only fix is bushing the bore. You need a shop with the right fixture, and the block will need to be totally stripped to do it because after you have to be able to wash out the oil galley and oil passages. So no cam bearings or oil galley plugs can be left in. Other than new cam bearings and time it shouldn't cost that much for one bore for a shop with experience and the right equipment.
 
RustyRatRod said:
The lifter bore does not have to be bushed. There is a process similar to valve guide knurling that tightens the bore back up.
Click to expand...

Doubt it could tighten up 10 thou & it wouldn't last. Bores would loosen back up just as the knurling wears off the pistons.
 
Wow I'm not the only that was hit with this problem I am running la block in my dart that has a 8 thousand over lifter bore if u look at the left front of the block where it is stamp with the displacement. ( 318. Or 360 ) and if it is a factory problem u will see a diamond stamped in the block. Anyway I found a guy out of Canada that actually sold me a 8thousand s over lifter which was a big help cause all my machine work was done and it was a short block I will try to find his number. Google over sized lifter for a mopar and read thru some of the threads that's how I found it.
 
o1heavy said:
Wow I'm not the only that was hit with this problem I am running la block in my dart that has a 8 thousand over lifter bore if u look at the left front of the block where it is stamp with the displacement. ( 318. Or 360 ) and if it is a factory problem u will see a diamond stamped in the block. Anyway I found a guy out of Canada that actually sold me a 8thousand s over lifter which was a big help cause all my machine work was done and it was a short block I will try to find his number. Google over sized lifter for a mopar and read thru some of the threads that's how I found it.
Click to expand...


In your case, that means it had over sized lifters from the factory.
 
Right just one bore. Was oversized. If u could I would just get another block this kinda made the cam break in a little stressful
 
Done at HTA. This is a common problem that many overlook. The right side/ passenger side rear bore is weak and should be checked for a crack. If you look close at these pics of an X-block you can see that lifter bore was spray welded and the all were bushed.

I have seen blocks that the decks were out of square over .015. and .020 from side to side. Lifter bores are also not at the correct angle. If your shop doesn't do this work after correcting the deck. its time to find a new shop. This should have been caught at the machine shop. This work should all be done while block is in the Rottler or similar machine to square everything to the crank bore and cam tunnel.

Most blocks that are above 340-6 have cast and machine problems. Also X-blocks as seen here. The best stock blocks are T/A, or 340-1 they had to meet a stricter quality control.

I kept a 340-1 for my self and compared it to others. The difference is evident with the naked eye. Cylinders on these blocks are always concentric and can be taken to 4.100 without issue. Rear lifter bore is also lacking porosity as the higher numbers have.

This said a good machine shop will fix any block. Its just a matter of how much you want to spend. I have seen blocks cut down between the cylinders. put in an oven straightened and rewelded. Top fuel motors are always saved. No matter how bad they come apart the blocks are repaired. And I have seen some brought in in pieces.

Spray welds or Shartanum rods. stronger then you would ever believe on a iron block if done in and oven. Third pic you can see the weld on the rear lifter bore. A crack came up on magna fluxing the block. This lifter bore was .010 over in size caused by the crack. This was a new block never in use.
 

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I'll have to search,

But an oversized Lifter is available,,,,,,,,,but you may have to purchase a set of 16.

I know this sounds crazy, but we used {1965 - 1967} Oldsmobile Tornado 425 Lifters
{Diameter .921"} in a Block that had worn 'lifter-bores'.

Here is what they look like,,,,,

$(KGrHqRHJD!E8fZ5QJF4BPL5f6VUl!~~60_12.JPG



And, the Small Block Mopar Hydraulic Lifter

th
 
1970Duster said:
Have the lifter bores bushed.
Click to expand...

It would probably be cheaper to locate a 340 Bare-Block.

You can get an 'oversized lifter' from 'Johnson Lifters' out of Taylor, Michigan -
and have a Specialty Tool and Die Shop grind it to size with a 'Centerless Grinder'.
 
Oldmanmopar said:
Done at HTA. This is a common problem that many overlook. The right side/ passenger side rear bore is weak and should be checked for a crack. If you look close at these pics of an X-block you can see that lifter bore was spray welded and the all were bushed.

I have seen blocks that the decks were out of square over .015. and .020 from side to side. Lifter bores are also not at the correct angle. If your shop doesn't do this work after correcting the deck. its time to find a new shop. This should have been caught at the machine shop. This work should all be done while block is in the Rottler or similar machine to square everything to the crank bore and cam tunnel.

Most blocks that are above 340-6 have cast and machine problems. Also X-blocks as seen here. The best stock blocks are T/A, or 340-1 they had to meet a stricter quality control.

I kept a 340-1 for my self and compared it to others. The difference is evident with the naked eye. Cylinders on these blocks are always concentric and can be taken to 4.100 without issue. Rear lifter bore is also lacking porosity as the higher numbers have.

This said a good machine shop will fix any block. Its just a matter of how much you want to spend. I have seen blocks cut down between the cylinders. put in an oven straightened and rewelded. Top fuel motors are always saved. No matter how bad they come apart the blocks are repaired. And I have seen some brought in in pieces.

Spray welds or Shartanum rods. stronger then you would ever believe on a iron block if done in and oven. Third pic you can see the weld on the rear lifter bore. A crack came up on magna fluxing the block. This lifter bore was .010 over in size caused by the crack. This was a new block never in use.
Click to expand...
:cheers::cheers:I will back him up on this one 100 0/0 this is what we did to all our dirt motors with no trouble..and twisted them to 8500 for 75 laps at a time....yeeeeeha...........Artie
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
I'll have to search,

But an oversized Lifter is available,,,,,,,,,but you may to purchase a set of 16.

I know this sounds crazy, but I think once we used {1965 - 1967} Oldsmobile Tornado 425 Lifters
{Diameter .921"} in a Block that had worn 'lifter-bores'.

Here is what they look like,,,,,

$(KGrHqRHJD!E8fZ5QJF4BPL5f6VUl!~~60_12.JPG



And, the Small Block Mopar Hydraulic Lifter

th
Click to expand...
and if my memory serves me right we have dun that to.........Artie
 
heck, if you could just hone the bores out for those oldsmobile lifters & a set of custom pushrods, you'd be back in the game.

EDIT: Looks like the Olds lifters are actually .842 according to summit. Need a Johnson catalog to see it there's something you could make work without spending big dollars..
 
There is no correlation between the dash numbers on the casting number and quality - that's been debunked for years now based on factory info. That number is the core box ID for the main casting core. "-1" means it is the first run of blocks cast with it and succeeding numbers are revisions made on that particular box. These revisions were normally to compensate for wear as the core boxes were used because the sand material would wear the core and for minor engineering changes implemented during the production run. A single core box would do many actual castings. A '73 "340-1" and a '71 "340-8", and a '68 "340-3" will have small production differences but no inherant improvement in casting quality based on the dash number or year of casting and no improvement in machining based on year of production. I'll also add the T/A blocks used a unique main webbing core in order to get 4 bolt mains if so desired later. So they are identified as "T/A". Otherwise - same block and cylinder casting cores.
They all may suffer core shift and porosity and any block machined by the factory was done to an average level of quality. That means 1/2 were below average... I have yet to find one that was done to "above average"...lol.
 
Here they are.

Mondello #HL-230-921 {.921" Diameter}

Hold on to your Hat...................$349 per Set of 16

But, they can be purchased individually.........

HL-230-921.gif



Below {Small Block Mopar}

th
 
I have a 340-8 and a 340-1 blocks here. I will get pics when I get a chance and show the difference. I have been comparing them since they have been making 340's. I have seen many side by side over the years and only telling what I have seen. I was just at a sprint car race and was looking at a mopar car. The block was a 340-1. I was talking to the engine builder and mentioned the block having a 340-1. He just smiled and nodded. I am only telling you what I have seen not read in a book. The first core would have had to pass quality after that they just went through the daily revisions to get them done.

I worked in a foundry. The first pour was watched and done with care before lunch. Once the green hats went to the office the gloves came off. That was the problem with union work quality always faded toward the end of the shift.

The same system was implied at the machine shop. The first piece out of the mold was the first to get machined and checked for quality. After that the parts would just get stacked and assumed they held the same tolerance.

You don't have to agree with the theory. The original block for my Duster is a piece of **** 340-8. The distributor hole was not even machined correctly. The cam bore and the crank tunnel were to close causing chain slop. after square decking it the lifter bores are not square to the deck. I can make a list of poor quality from the factory on the block. I look because its mine and I learned from experience over the years. If I was building it to race and if it wasn't the #No block. I would sell it to one of the don't care builders that roam the web.
 
I would like to thank everyone for their quick reply's, that was great. I think I know the way I will be going now and will keep everyone informed of my progress. Again, Thanks to all. Geo., Zippie#7
 
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