Lumber Rant...

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Ok a little off subject, years ago i went to home depot to apply for a part time job i had to take a test i did ok i guess except for one question asking how many rolls of wallpaper to sell a customer with a wall these dimensions,i'm not a math wizz so i said buy 10 rolls bring back what you don't use.When the guy reviewed my aplication and test he said you really don't want this job do you,i explained i figured any answer was better than a blank.I did not get the job,a few weeks later i went to buy some bagged concrete and i asked the sales associate how many bags i needed for this many square yards he said buy 25 bags bring back what you don't use. WTF?
 
krazykuda said:
If you take a bunch of those and fold them into a wreath, you will have...

A wreath of Franklins.... Get it?

A wreath of Franklins... Aretha Franklin...

Anybody?? Tough crowd...
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Reminds me of why you shouldnt listen to a potato named Richard. Because hes a Dick tater.
 
cannucky said:
first off 2x4s haven't been 2x4 in 50 years and if you buy "studs" you get "stud" length which is shorter than standard 2 ft increments because it is sized to account for the top and bottom plate , some of you guys need to just call a carpenter and get it done right I don't do brain surgery or build motors cause I'm a carpenter not a mechanic or a brain surgeon , man you guys crack me up bitchin about crap that realy hasn't changed in our lifetime , you just didn't know they sell 2x4s both as dimension lumber and in "stud" lengths and yes there are different "stud" lengths available for different ceiling heights , the only thing that has changed is grading gas gone to crap but that's because they don't log as much truely mature lumber anymore most trees don't get to the old growth size they are 2nd growth cut now.And lowes and Homo depot are the walmarts of the building industry so shame on you for killing the local guy
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Ok smarty why are 8 foot studs 92 5/8 and plate material 1 5/8? Doesnt add up to 8 foot.Why the missing 1/8? I say this jokingly.
 
Because Stroker, when you add 92 5/8 and 4 1/2", (one bottom plate and 2 top plates) you get 97 1/8"

Lets say you are hanging the drywall in your spiffy new room with walls exactly 8 foot. You hang the ceiling first, which is 1/2" thick, then you do the walls. Lets see... drywall is 4 ft. wide and you hang it sideways. So you put up the first row and butt it to the ceiling then go to put the 2nd row under it and....

If the studs were cut to size to make a wall 8 ft. exactly, you would have to cut every other piece of drywall you hung just to get it to fit!! Now add the thickness of the ceiling to two width's of 48" for the drywall and you get 96 1/2" and the extra 5/8" is how much play you have to get it all in. If you think the floors and ceiling are perfectly level and parellel with each other, you don't know the building industry!! I wish I could say that jokingly!!!LOL!!

Does this answer your question?? Geof
 
2x4's are 1-1/2" x 3-1/2" because they a "finished". Old school they were a true 2"x4" (rough sawn) BEFORE they took them and finished them in the planer. 8' 2x4's are 8' (studs). They also sell "pre-cut" studs which are 92-5/8" which allows a carpenter to build a 8' wall (allowing for one bottom plate and two top plates) without having to cut each stud shorter.
Roofing "Plywood" use to be 1/2" because that was code to span 24" on center to meet "snow load of 30#/SF. With the introduction of OSB (oriented strand board) it was found that 7/16" was just as strong and can now be used for roof decking.
 
Being in the restoration business in the past and seeing way to many basement floods (where the water wicked up the drywall) I started advising my customers that we would cut the drywall 5" above the floor and install 6" base. This would allow for a 4" flood in the future without effecting the drywall thus vastly reducing damage in the future.
 
OneOfMany said:
Here in Canada we ship all of our best wood to the US to be sold in stores.
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Not sure where that good lumber is being shipped but it sure doesn't make it to my area. Around here the lumber is so wet you get squirted in the eye when you try to drive a nail. After it dries it's so warped and twisted that it's useless unless you're building propellers or boats, and worse shrinkage than diving into a frozen pond in your skivvies.
 
cannucky said:
first off 2x4s haven't been 2x4 in 50 years and if you buy "studs" you get "stud" length which is shorter than standard 2 ft increments because it is sized to account for the top and bottom plate , some of you guys need to just call a carpenter and get it done right I don't do brain surgery or build motors cause I'm a carpenter not a mechanic or a brain surgeon , man you guys crack me up bitchin about crap that realy hasn't changed in our lifetime , you just didn't know they sell 2x4s both as dimension lumber and in "stud" lengths and yes there are different "stud" lengths available for different ceiling heights , the only thing that has changed is grading gas gone to crap but that's because they don't log as much truely mature lumber anymore most trees don't get to the old growth size they are 2nd growth cut now.And lowes and Homo depot are the walmarts of the building industry so shame on you for killing the local guy
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I never did complain about the length and I'm full aware of what a 2x4's dimension is supposed to be but it's not and that's my complaint. my 2x4's are 1 15/32's x 3 7/16ths! I want the 3/32's I paid for! :D Don't even get me started on plywood thickness.

MVRCorp said:
2x4's are 1-1/2" x 3-1/2" because they a "finished". Old school they were a true 2"x4" (rough sawn) BEFORE they took them and finished them in the planer. 8' 2x4's are 8' (studs). They also sell "pre-cut" studs which are 92-5/8" which allows a carpenter to build a 8' wall (allowing for one bottom plate and two top plates) without having to cut each stud shorter.
Roofing "Plywood" use to be 1/2" because that was code to span 24" on center to meet "snow load of 30#/SF. With the introduction of OSB (oriented strand board) it was found that 7/16" was just as strong and can now be used for roof decking.
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Yeah, but is OSB as strong as plywood if it gets wet from a roof leak?
 
magnumdart said:
Not long ago I searched thru bunk after bunk for enough car siding to do a small twenty by five porch ceiling. SCALE OF 1 TO 10..quality rates a high zero. At least the thinner ply is easier to throw up on the roof.
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heheheh "...rates a high zero"

excellent.

My neighbor is an old timer and his old 2x4s laying around have the modern ones beat big time. Solid, fat and wide. Actual 2x4.

Less for more. Love it. Less electric, less gas, less land, less freedom. Costs more and more. Conserve! that way china can have all our resources.

.
 
cosgig said:
Because Stroker, when you add 92 5/8 and 4 1/2", (one bottom plate and 2 top plates) you get 97 1/8"

Lets say you are hanging the drywall in your spiffy new room with walls exactly 8 foot. You hang the ceiling first, which is 1/2" thick, then you do the walls. Lets see... drywall is 4 ft. wide and you hang it sideways. So you put up the first row and butt it to the ceiling then go to put the 2nd row under it and....

If the studs were cut to size to make a wall 8 ft. exactly, you would have to cut every other piece of drywall you hung just to get it to fit!! Now add the thickness of the ceiling to two width's of 48" for the drywall and you get 96 1/2" and the extra 5/8" is how much play you have to get it all in. If you think the floors and ceiling are perfectly level and parellel with each other, you don't know the building industry!! I wish I could say that jokingly!!!LOL!!

Does this answer your question?? Geof
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I knew the answer. But fyi plate material is 1 5/8 which gives you 4 7/8 + 92 5/8 for 97 1/2 or 1 inch of play. I come from a long line of carpenters.
 
A friend of mine bought some trim and HD charged him by the foot. He took 1 foot back and wanted a refund. They told him he couldn't return just 1 foot and he argued that since they sold it by the foot and if he had wanted to just purchase a foot they would charge him for a foot. They gave him a refund for a foot.
 
It's like buying marine plywood advertised as having fewer voids. True marine plywood has NO voids.
 
500stroker said:
I knew the answer. But fyi plate material is 1 5/8 which gives you 4 7/8 + 92 5/8 for 97 1/2 or 1 inch of play. I come from a long line of carpenters.
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None of it really matters... if it fits, it ships so they say!! Tolerances in the construction industry are way more than the 1/8"'s and 1/32"'s that are being mentioned here. Even if you add it all up on paper, nailing three plates and a stud together will never equal what it should on paper, that is unless everything is planed to a perfect thickness and your nailing draws all of the material perfectly tight, it'll still read over!!

And as for the question of whether OSB will hold up on a roof better than plywood if it gets wet, the answer is certainly way better than plywood. The OSB is so ladened with glue, it will take several rains before it will swell and it can still be used. The cheap 3 and 5 ply plywood will start to delaminate at the first sign of rain, and buckle so bad that replacing the entire sheet is inevitable!! Thats the main reason that no one uses plywood anymore, especially for floors. With products like Advantech, which will not swell even after repeated rains, why would you use plywood??? Not to mention the price of plywood!!! Geof
 
cosgig said:
None of it really matters... if it fits, it ships so they say!! Tolerances in the construction industry are way more than the 1/8"'s and 1/32"'s that are being mentioned here. Even if you add it all up on paper, nailing three plates and a stud together will never equal what it should on paper, that is unless everything is planed to a perfect thickness and your nailing draws all of the material perfectly tight, it'll still read over!!

And as for the question of whether OSB will hold up on a roof better than plywood if it gets wet, the answer is certainly way better than plywood. The OSB is so ladened with glue, it will take several rains before it will swell and it can still be used. The cheap 3 and 5 ply plywood will start to delaminate at the first sign of rain, and buckle so bad that replacing the entire sheet is inevitable!! Thats the main reason that no one uses plywood anymore, especially for floors. With products like Advantech, which will not swell even after repeated rains, why would you use plywood??? Not to mention the price of plywood!!! Geof
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Agreed
 
The lumber around my house is as bad or worse than anywhere else, yet I was able to create this. The person drawing the plan already knows the sizes of lumber, and the reasons for it. Just follow the directions and when you are done, you will never be able to figure out where that 1/32 went to, or where you would put it if you had it.
 

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JayD said:
Not sure where that good lumber is being shipped but it sure doesn't make it to my area. Around here the lumber is so wet you get squirted in the eye when you try to drive a nail. After it dries it's so warped and twisted that it's useless unless you're building propellers or boats, and worse shrinkage than diving into a frozen pond in your skivvies.
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Guess it's probably going to China now instead :wack:

Grant
 
You have two options in the lumber world.

a) Nice lumber that might be getting smaller as time goes on that you get at Lowes, Home Depot, and other builder supply sources.

b) Rough cut sawmill lumber. Believe me you don't want that sh*t. I have never seen a sawmill that plywood.

I have been in construction for a long time and have never let the size of lumber hold me back to accomplish what I wanted.

It is a shame however that lumber is shrinking. lol
 
67Dart273 said:
I got into a HUGE pissin match at Lowes awhile back, mostly because two of their guys damn near acted as if "I" was the problem, and ran me around

Was going to buy some shelves, HERE IS PART OF THE INSULT

We have a COMPUTER age, right??? Why don't "we" make use of it? Some lumber has stapled on bar graph tags, so you can remove one tag, count your pieces, and simply hand your bar tag to the checkout person. GREAT, I'm OK with that

BUT SOME products has GLUED on tags so you must take a notebook and write down the info off the sign on the rack. WASTE OF TIME

I decided to get 5/8 chip board for more strength, but THEY HAVE GONE to 19/32. So I write down all the BS on the sign, BUT THE CHECKOUT woman "doesn't compute" So she has to get this PRINTED cheat sheet out, IN PLASTIC, with INK notes written OVER the plastic. The plastic an "slip around" so you don't really know what the scribbled notes and arrows are pointing to.

So I wasn't really aware that there was a problem, turns out she charged me for 7/16, rather than the thicker material.

So I get out to the exit

The guy there JUST HAPPENS to have a few pallets of OVERSTOCK of 19/32, takes my receipt, frowns, walks over to the overstock, comes back and says "YOU didn't PAY for 5/8, YOU paid for 7/16.

I said "I didn't BUY 5/8, I bought 19/32, and the girl charged me seemed to know what she was doing.

"YOU," said he, "YOU are going to have to go back and pay for WHAT YOU BOUGHT.

GOAUD I was freeking PISSED. There were 4 people, phone calls, 15 minutes of time wasted while everybody argued what to do, and I AM SURE I ended up paying for 5/8 in the end.

At one point I told this woman, "If you guys can't figure this out, I'm gonna unload the whole mess out there on the floor and leave."

Now 1/32 doesn't sound like a big deal, eh? But I bought 12 sheets, so it DOES add up.

I still have the receipts. If I ever cool off, I'm gonna leave my Ruger at home and go down there and yell at some people. What REALLY pisses me off, is Lowes is the ONLY really handy place to buy lumber in town. One outfit, along with Ziggys, has much of there lumber in the weather, so it's ALWAYS wet and warped.
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DUDE,You really have some anger issues...
 
magnumdart said:
The lumber around my house is as bad or worse than anywhere else, yet I was able to create this. The person drawing the plan already knows the sizes of lumber, and the reasons for it. Just follow the directions and when you are done, you will never be able to figure out where that 1/32 went to, or where you would put it if you had it.
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Beautiful spread Bro!! And nice job on the homestead, you should be and probably are very proud of your work!! Geof
 
I guess I'm just being picky and cheap. I'm building a workbench, not a house, so tolerance stacking is an issue. Maybe I ought to buy a planer and just make my own wood, lol.

I suppose an 1/8" here and a 1/16" there wouldn't bother most people, but I take a lot of pride in my work. Most people would never notice but I would. I'll have to post pics of the last workbench I made.
 
ramcharger said:
I guess I'm just being picky and cheap. I'm building a workbench, not a house, so tolerance stacking is an issue. Maybe I ought to buy a planer and just make my own wood, lol.

I suppose an 1/8" here and a 1/16" there wouldn't bother most people, but I take a lot of pride in my work. Most people would never notice but I would. I'll have to post pics of the last workbench I made.
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That and the cool coffee table you built :cheers:..
Treva and I was at Slows buying some wood and I seen some crazy prices on wood, and just think :coffee2: This new wood is young wood and no where near as strong as it was back in the day.... I have never seen so many different sizes of plywood in my life as we walked down the ply wood and chip board ( or what ever they call it now) :coffee2:
 
Reminds me of the first 10' wall I framed years ago. Wasn't until I stood it up that I realized that 2x4-10' really means.. 2x4-10' and somewhere between a 1/4 and 3/4 inch extra so you can trim an end..:banghead:

Grant
 
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