Magnum VS Hemi

[Joe Dokes]

Wow, a lot of half truths and misinformation in this thread.

Here's a list of problems I see in the thread.

1. People say that the 5.9L Magnum is cheaper, no doubt. But then they say, "I'm building a 408" with RPM Heads and a whole host of other aftermarket parts. By the time you've done all of that to your motor the Hemi starts to look a lot cheaper.

2. Fitting the Hemi. Yes it's tight but TTI makes a nice set of headers (you're going to run headers on your 408, right?) It's basically bolts in. If you buy TTIs and a borgeson power steering box you can have power steering. Getting the motor in the car doesn't require surgery.

3. I like the people who compare a set of 03-08 stock 5.7L heads that flow 260 CFM to a pair of CNC ported after market heads that flow, wait for it, 260 CFM. 6.1L Stock Heads flow 300 CFM before porting and 350 after porting. 09 and up 5.7 Heads flow 300 CFM while 392 Heads flow over 325 before porting. 375 CFM out of stock heads is not unheard of and if you want to get fancy you can get over 400 CFM out of a set of Thiteks.

4. The bell-housing of the Hemi is essentially the same as that of the LA/Magnum motors. Your 727/904/A833s will all bolt up with minor adjustments. The bell-housing has a .060 offset so you can either add a spacer or use a different flex plate. Not a big deal.

5. If you are running fuel injection the fuel system is going to be essentially the same whether you're running a magnum or Hemi. The only potential difference is if you run throttle body injection on the Magnum the fuel pump is a little different, but again the price is essentially the same.

6. Power output, there simply isn't any comparison in power output between a STOCK Hemi and STOCK Magnum. We're talking over 100 HP difference. A set of headers, cam, and a tune puts the 03-08 Hemi at around 480 HP. 500 HP for the 2009 and later. A stock 6.1L Hemi starts at 425 HP, again with a cam and headers you're knocking on 500 easy HP. Again this is out of only 372 cubic inches. 500 HP out of 372 LA cubic inches is a beast.

7. Drive-ability, A stock 09 to present Hemi with a set of headers is right at 425 HP NET not gross, and will idle smoother than a stock 318 with a 2-barrel. Remember this is a motor that only has 345 cubic inches.

8. Fuel Mileage. Assuming you keep the fuel injection 25 MPG is not unheard of assuming you can keep your foot out of it.

9. Speed. Stock Hemi's with only a Cam, Headers, and a Tune, in A-bodies are running 11s. Let's see a cammed 360 stock, run 11s. Not going to happen.

Finally, if you want to run an LA/360 motor great. If you want to build a Hemi Great. But before you start buying parts, do your homework. The key is to sharpen you pencil and add up your costs OF BOTH MOTORS. The numbers may surprise you.

If your goal is 400-425 HP a stock 5.7L Hemi will serve you well. You can pick up a used truck motor for $1500.00 (car motors are more). You could probably buy a used 5.7, throw in a cam and spend less than a rebuilt 360 with forged internals and ported stock or aftermarket heads. If you want 500 or more HP you'll need to either buy a 6.1 or 6.4 or spend some money upgrading your internals of a 5.7. If you want more than 650 HP you'll need to start upgrading the internals of a 6.1 or 6.4. The point is that when you buy a Magnum motor, and a stroker kit, and a head kit, and an intake, headers, cam. You might be at the same cost as a Hemi.

The key is to do your homework.

Regards,

Joe Dokes

 

[justinp61]

How about comparing the factory numbers? The 5.9 was 245hp and 330fp torque, the 5.7 is 395hp and 410fp torque. This comparing truck engines to keep it apples to apples. The 6.1 and 6.4 are another animal.

Don't get me wrong the Magnum head is the best "production" small block head Chrysler made. There is a reason Chrysler moved from the Magnum series to the Gen3 though, the Gen3 is more efficient, it does more with less, and yes it is a much stronger platform.

 

[273]

How about comparing the factory numbers? The 5.9 was 245hp and 330fp torque, the 5.7 is 395hp and 410fp torque. This comparing truck engines to keep it apples to apples. The 6.1 and 6.4 are another animal.

Don't get me wrong the Magnum head is the best "production" small block head Chrysler made. There is a reason Chrysler moved from the Magnum series to the Gen3 though, the Gen3 is more efficient, it does more with less, and yes it is a much stronger platform.

It's obvious the Hemi has more potential but for the cost of a decent Hemi you could have a magnum in and running. And do mods as you can afford them like cam, heads, headers etc... which would go along way to close the gap in power. But if you got the cash Hemi would be the way to go.

 

[jammied]

I agree no doubt the hemi has more hp potential, but it is still cheaper to run mpi on the magnum anyone can buy a donor truck with the 5.2 or 5.9 magnum for 300-500 and do the wiring themselves pretty easily as long as it' a pre '96 donor and use the stock computer and pretty much everything else to do the magnum swap without having to get the computer reprogrammed. the hemi will require some custom programming unless you use all the wiring and body control modules etc.... The pre '96 magnum computers only notice when one of the main efi sensors go bad like the iat the map the o2 the the tps just needs the basic efi stuff hooked up and the power supply. But every combination gets more expensive the furhter away from a stock engine you get. but the mopar computer is still available for around $289 shipped and will handle ALOT of cam 400hp well within reason for those

 

[Infecteddog]

Wow, a lot of half truths and misinformation in this thread.

Here's a list of problems I see in the thread.

1. People say that the 5.9L Magnum is cheaper, no doubt. But then they say, "I'm building a 408" with RPM Heads and a whole host of other aftermarket parts. By the time you've done all of that to your motor the Hemi starts to look a lot cheaper.

That all ends up depending on how it's built. There's definitely money left for a build if not swapping to a Hemi.

4. The bell-housing of the Hemi is essentially the same as that of the LA/Magnum motors. Your 727/904/A833s will all bolt up with minor adjustments. The bell-housing has a .060 offset so you can either add a spacer or use a different flex plate. Not a big deal.

Pretty much, like $40 for a flexplate, ain't it?

6. Power output, there simply isn't any comparison in power output between a STOCK Hemi and STOCK Magnum. We're talking over 100 HP difference. A set of headers, cam, and a tune puts the 03-08 Hemi at around 480 HP. 500 HP for the 2009 and later. A stock 6.1L Hemi starts at 425 HP, again with a cam and headers you're knocking on 500 easy HP. Again this is out of only 372 cubic inches. 500 HP out of 372 LA cubic inches is a beast.

Which means you need more gear to make the most of it. 480hp from 345" isn't happening at 4500. That's why Magnums weren't slow and why they're an excellent choice in budget street vehicles that won't ever have enough gear to make the most of peaking over 6k.

8. Fuel Mileage. Assuming you keep the fuel injection 25 MPG is not unheard of assuming you can keep your foot out of it.

I believe it. Entirely reasonable for RWD cars with tall gears or OD.

9. Speed. Stock Hemi's with only a Cam, Headers, and a Tune, in A-bodies are running 11s. Let's see a cammed 360 stock, run 11s. Not going to happen.

Only a cam, headers, and a tune? Isn't there a thread with Mags/LAs having "only" heads, cam, intake, headers, and about as much invested as budget Hemi swaps running in the 10s and 11s?

Finally, if you want to run an LA/360 motor great. If you want to build a Hemi Great. But before you start buying parts, do your homework. The key is to sharpen you pencil and add up your costs OF BOTH MOTORS. The numbers may surprise you.

Absolutely. Always very good to be informed as to what people are running with what. Apparently they're tuning the stock OBD-II PCMs to run some pretty serious cams.

If your goal is 400-425 HP a stock 5.7L Hemi will serve you well. You can pick up a used truck motor for $1500.00 (car motors are more). You could probably buy a used 5.7, throw in a cam and spend less than a rebuilt 360 with forged internals and ported stock or aftermarket heads. If you want 500 or more HP you'll need to either buy a 6.1 or 6.4 or spend some money upgrading your internals of a 5.7. If you want more than 650 HP you'll need to start upgrading the internals of a 6.1 or 6.4. The point is that when you buy a Magnum motor, and a stroker kit, and a head kit, and an intake, headers, cam. You might be at the same cost as a Hemi.

Might be. Might be making more power for less money too.

How about comparing the factory numbers? The 5.9 was 245hp and 330fp torque, the 5.7 is 395hp and 410fp torque. This comparing truck engines to keep it apples to apples. The 6.1 and 6.4 are another animal.

And pray tell what are those RPMs for those peaks? An extra 1000 RPM is a big deal, which is why most builds involve cam swaps in Magnums.

Don't get me wrong the Magnum head is the best "production" small block head Chrysler made. There is a reason Chrysler moved from the Magnum series to the Gen3 though, the Gen3 is more efficient, it does more with less, and yes it is a much stronger platform.

It's more built out of the box. It has the fuel system, the cam, the head flow, everything to be an 11 second motor in a light car with the right gears. The Magnum is needs more parts bought for it to be there- cam doesn't put it into that range, cheap heads are an improvement, the intake is a huge improvement, but for just a street vehicle there will be little potential left of the stock setup untapped by being tall geared with a 3spd.

 

[ValiantOne]

I love this post. As a guy who is planning a 5.9 efi build I read this thread and think........hmmmmm........ Maybe I should build a hemi. Then the next post and I'm thinking....hmmmmmm........ I'll stick with the magnum. Fun to read!

 

[DionR]

Maybe for the 03-08 5.7 head (the baby of the four OEM heads), but a Magnum head couldn’t compare to any of the other 3 heads.

That would speak to a story where they simply don't compare. It's not the case. Even stock casting head small blocks have strong potential so either the cfm doesn't matter that much or there's something very significant going on.

I think what is missing is that a motor is a package, and while airflow in the heads can indicate how much hp the cylinder head can support, it doesn’t necessarily match the motor’s output. Compare a stock 5.9 making 245/330 to a 300 hp crate motor with 340 exhaust (reference the below article) making 315/409. The crate motor is fundamentally a stock 5.9 with a different intake, and the difference in induction made a whopping 70 hp and 74 lb-ft difference, and moved the rpm band up about 500 rpm. Just from adding a better flowing intake. Then put a bigger cam in it and drop a single plane intake on it (e.g. the 380 hp crate motor), and now it makes 400 hp, all with the same heads. But on the 380hp motor, the heads are probably maxed and would need to be swapped out or ported to go higher. At the same time, a G3 hemi with a much smaller cam will probably make the same hp, be much more civilized and has the potential to go much higher than a Magnum, all because the better flowing heads can support it.

Not saying everyone needs more, just saying that the potential in a G3 is far above what a Magnum has to offer, even with some high end cylinder heads like Dr J's on it.

How about comparing the factory numbers? The 5.9 was 245hp and 330fp torque, the 5.7 is 395hp and 410fp torque. This comparing truck engines to keep it apples to apples. The 6.1 and 6.4 are another animal.

And pray tell what are those RPMs for those peaks? An extra 1000 RPM is a big deal, which is why most builds involve cam swaps in Magnums.

The 1998 5.9 was rated at 245 hp @ 4,000 rpm and 335 ft·lbs @ 3,250 rpm. The 2015 truck 5.7 is rated at 395 hp @ 5600 rpm and 410 lb-ft @ 3950 rpm. The 300 hp crate motor used in the "famous" exhaust test made a peak of 327 hp @ 4600 rpm and 425.5 lb-ft @ 3700 rpm with TTI exhaust in this article, and a 380 hp test made 409 hp @ 5,400 rpm and 439.5 ft-lb @ 4,100 rpm in this article.

Yes the truck 5.7 makes its hp 1600 rpm higher, but the torque peak is only 700 rpm higher, and if you dump the kegger intake on the Magnum, all the sudden the difference is 1000 rpm for hp and 250 rpm for torque. And if we are talking about adding a cam for more power and rpm, the kegger becomes a real issue forcing you to buy a different intake (which is even more expensive if you want to keep the EFI). The truck 5.7 does a pretty good job of keeping up with the 380hp crater motor, with a much smaller cam and no headers. Now compare that 380 hp crate motor to an SRT 6.4 and all of the sudden the G3 is bigger everywhere, but it does it with a smaller cam and still has the potential to grow while the 380 hp crate motor needs more cylinder head before it can go anywhere.

For reference the car (6M) 5.7 is rated at 375 hp @ 5150 rpm and 410 lb-ft @ 4300 rpm. The 6.4 in a 2011 SRT8 was rated at 470 hp @ 6000 rpm and 470 lb-ft @ 4200 rpm, 100 rpm lower than the 5.7 and only 100 rpm higher than the 380 hp crate motor. It should be noted that the 6.4 has an active intake, though.

None of this is meant to imply that a Magnum isn’t worth swapping, or the potential is inadequate. Just thoughts and points of discussion.

 

[Infecteddog]

I think what is missing is that a motor is a package, and while airflow in the heads can indicate how much hp the cylinder head can support, it doesn’t necessarily match the motor’s output. Compare a stock 5.9 making 245/330 to a 300 hp crate motor with 340 exhaust (reference the below article) making 315/409. The crate motor is fundamentally a stock 5.9 with a different intake, and the difference in induction made a whopping 70 hp and 74 lb-ft difference, and moved the rpm band up about 500 rpm. Just from adding a better flowing intake. Then put a bigger cam in it and drop a single plane intake on it (e.g. the 380 hp crate motor), and now it makes 400 hp, all with the same heads. But on the 380hp motor, the heads are probably maxed and would need to be swapped out or ported to go higher. At the same time, a G3 hemi with a much smaller cam will probably make the same hp, be much more civilized and has the potential to go much higher than a Magnum, all because the better flowing heads can support it.

Not saying everyone needs more, just saying that the potential in a G3 is far above what a Magnum has to offer, even with some high end cylinder heads like Dr J's on it.



The 1998 5.9 was rated at 245 hp @ 4,000 rpm and 335 ft·lbs @ 3,250 rpm. The 2015 truck 5.7 is rated at 395 hp @ 5600 rpm and 410 lb-ft @ 3950 rpm. The 300 hp crate motor used in the "famous" exhaust test made a peak of 327 hp @ 4600 rpm and 425.5 lb-ft @ 3700 rpm with TTI exhaust in this article, and a 380 hp test made 409 hp @ 5,400 rpm and 439.5 ft-lb @ 4,100 rpm in this article.

Yes the truck 5.7 makes its hp 1600 rpm higher, but the torque peak is only 700 rpm higher, and if you dump the kegger intake on the Magnum, all the sudden the difference is 1000 rpm for hp and 250 rpm for torque. And if we are talking about adding a cam for more power and rpm, the kegger becomes a real issue forcing you to buy a different intake (which is even more expensive if you want to keep the EFI). The truck 5.7 does a pretty good job of keeping up with the 380hp crater motor, with a much smaller cam and no headers. Now compare that 380 hp crate motor to an SRT 6.4 and all of the sudden the G3 is bigger everywhere, but it does it with a smaller cam and still has the potential to grow while the 380 hp crate motor needs more cylinder head before it can go anywhere.

For reference the car (6M) 5.7 is rated at 375 hp @ 5150 rpm and 410 lb-ft @ 4300 rpm. The 6.4 in a 2011 SRT8 was rated at 470 hp @ 6000 rpm and 470 lb-ft @ 4200 rpm, 100 rpm lower than the 5.7 and only 100 rpm higher than the 380 hp crate motor. It should be noted that the 6.4 has an active intake, though.

None of this is meant to imply that a Magnum isn’t worth swapping, or the potential is inadequate. Just thoughts and points of discussion.

Which part of more HP at lower RPMs makes you think they have larger cams? With 1.6 rockers the Mags had about .60 less lift, no idea if the 5.7s are 1.5, 6, 7, or whatever.

 

[DionR]

1. People say that the 5.9L Magnum is cheaper, no doubt. But then they say, "I'm building a 408" with RPM Heads and a whole host of other aftermarket parts. By the time you've done all of that to your motor the Hemi starts to look a lot cheaper.

That all ends up depending on how it's built. There's definitely money left for a build if not swapping to a Hemi.

Couple of years ago I put together a spreadsheet adding up the costs of a hemi swap versus a rebuild of my numbers matching 360. In the end, a rebuild of my 360 with better compression, a set of Edelbrock heads, a roller cam and Megasquirt EFI (w/ a fuel system) was looking to cost me $6,600. If I bought a truck 5.7, plus all the parts to swap it in (including the EFI fuel system), with cast iron manifolds, a Hot Wire Auto harness and ECU, car timing cover, water pump and intake, plus whatever miscellaneous stuff I could remember, it came to $5300. The difference was big enough that I could have done TTI headers and a new cam, and still been cheaper than rebuilding the 360 and adding EFI.

I also looked at just swapping a roller cam, Edelbrock heads and EFI onto my current shorblock, and that total came to $5600. Even just a better carb with the roller cam and Edelbrock heads was $2950. That was just if I wanted to try and “keep up” performance wise.

Best I could get the Hemi down to was $4050 with an OE harness I modified and a B&G flash to the ECU, and the rest of it being truck parts. That was about the same as rebuilding the 360, adding Edelbrock heads and a roller cam, but no EFI.

I would say that if you have to rebuild a Magnum (or want to “build a 408”), the G3 starts looking more cost effective, if you can find one that isn’t broke.

If either one is going to need a rebuild, the Magnum might be more cost effective.

Those numbers don't directly correlate with a 5.9 rebuild, though, as that included some costly lifters for the roller cam. But even if I saved $500 by using a Magnum block, and bought EQ heads instead of Edelbrocks, I'm not sure it would pencil out.

 

[DionR]

Which part of more HP at lower RPMs makes you think they have larger cams? With 1.6 rockers the Mags had about .60 less lift, no idea if the 5.7s are 1.5, 6, 7, or whatever.

??? Not following.

I'm certain the 380hp crate motor has a larger cam then either the 5.7 or 6.4. Pretty sure the stock 5.9 (and 300 hp crate motor) has a smaller cam than the 5.7 truck motor, though. Never meant to imply the 5.9 cam was bigger than the 5.7 cam. Only saying it took a big cam in the Magnum to catch the stock Hemi.

But your question confuses me. Sorry.

Pretty sure the G3 rocker ratio is 1.65:1

 

[DionR]

Cam info I have:

2000 5.9: 249/269, 0.410/0.410 (at the valve)
5.7 (assuming 06): 260/268, 0.472/0.460 (at the valve)
2011 SRT8 6.4: 286/288, 0.577/0.537 (at the valve)
380hp crate motor: 288/292, and .501/.513

Not sure how I would classify the 6.4 cam, bigger than the 380hp crate cam? More lift, that is for sure. Even if you call it the same based on duration, the 6.4 motor, without headers, kills the 380hp crate motor.

Looks like the 5.9 cam is the smallest, followed by the 5.7, then either the 6.4 or the 380hp cam.

Couldn't find cam specs on the current 5.7 in the truck. I guess it is different than the cam in the Challenger 5.7, though.

 

[Infecteddog]

??? Not following.

I'm certain the 380hp crate motor has a larger cam then either the 5.7 or 6.4. Pretty sure the stock 5.9 (and 300 hp crate motor) has a smaller cam than the 5.7 truck motor, though. Never meant to imply the 5.9 cam was bigger than the 5.7 cam. Only saying it took a big cam in the Magnum to catch the stock Hemi.

But your question confuses me. Sorry.

Pretty sure the G3 rocker ratio is 1.65:1

Right. SRT8 looks a touch smaller than the 380HP. More lift, possibly same int dur, less exh dur. Wouldn't be suprising if 380HP was flat tappet, which isn't great for HP especially not for HP for the cam size- lift's exceedingly low for duration, may well've been intentional due to spring selection.

I guess where much of my point lies is the 318 Mags have a bigger cam and shorter stroke than the 360 Mags- but they're not less drivable. It's just not a tangible difference. With MPFI there's not a lines you'll cross, which is why following the MAF 5.0 Mustangs it became so common to see FAST street cars daily driven. It's not that the newer motors are so much tamer that has appeal, it's that the 6500RPM 400cfm motor you can drive in the road- and about anybody could right behind you. In the new Hemis, they come with the headflow- the Mags don't have it out of the box. It probably won't cost the difference between the two to get where it needs to, but to truly match the Hemis headflow for a N/A motor that's gonna be over 520-530hp it'd likely take more than the difference.

Couple of years ago I put together a spreadsheet adding up the costs of a hemi swap versus a rebuild of my numbers matching 360. In the end, a rebuild of my 360 with better compression, a set of Edelbrock heads, a roller cam and Megasquirt EFI (w/ a fuel system) was looking to cost me $6,600. If I bought a truck 5.7, plus all the parts to swap it in (including the EFI fuel system), with cast iron manifolds, a Hot Wire Auto harness and ECU, car timing cover, water pump and intake, plus whatever miscellaneous stuff I could remember, it came to $5300. The difference was big enough that I could have done TTI headers and a new cam, and still been cheaper than rebuilding the 360 and adding EFI.

I also looked at just swapping a roller cam, Edelbrock heads and EFI onto my current shorblock, and that total came to $5600. Even just a better carb with the roller cam and Edelbrock heads was $2950. That was just if I wanted to try and “keep up” performance wise.

Best I could get the Hemi down to was $4050 with an OE harness I modified and a B&G flash to the ECU, and the rest of it being truck parts. That was about the same as rebuilding the 360, adding Edelbrock heads and a roller cam, but no EFI.

I would say that if you have to rebuild a Magnum (or want to “build a 408”), the G3 starts looking more cost effective, if you can find one that isn’t broke.

If either one is going to need a rebuild, the Magnum might be more cost effective.

Those numbers don't directly correlate with a 5.9 rebuild, though, as that included some costly lifters for the roller cam. But even if I saved $500 by using a Magnum block, and bought EQ heads instead of Edelbrocks, I'm not sure it would pencil out.

Hear that. Around half in the 408, $600 in conversion to Mag FI. Next time would just buy a 'rango, 'kota, or grand 4x4 for a donor- foolish not to. Roller off the bat, full fuel system there, motor, and could even have a shot of netting out better.

5.7s are still expensive here. Running Magnum vehicles, even with reasonable miles can be had cheap. $400-650 for a running, driving Mag truck donor and then the $1000-1800 into the motor to improve it is still better than buying conversion parts for an $1500 motor.

 

[justinp61]

It all depends on the intended application. The only thing I want from a 6.1 is the block and heads, maybe the rocker arms. I don't want a mag, I already have better la stuff.

 

[Mopar to ya]

My brother just did a Hemi swap in his Warlock. It was expensive. He bought a used motor from a 2009 Dodge Ram and a used Viper 6 speed manual. That was a chunk of change. The electronics and wiring harness were a couple grand. It was an expensive project, and he had a couple of 440 engines he could have thrown $1000 at and had them in quicker. In the end, it is a cool motor that is something different in an old school vehicle, it is fuel injected, and has lots of stock power. His stock motor with 100K miles, SRT manifolds and homemade 3" exhaust with H pipe turned 379 hp at the wheels with an estimated 426 at the motor. That's nothing to sneeze at. And it runs on drive by wire as well. His first car show he took best in class. Now if I can talk him into throwing in a cam and a turbo this winter, he should be in the 650 hp range and maybe take my Dart down. Who am I kidding? He'll never take my Dart!

 

[jammied]

I always wanted to put a high output 4.7 magnum into a early A body they weigh less than a /6 and the later ones were 310hp stock. but then again this forum doesn't support Mitsubishi lol

 

[stixx]

Compare a stock 5.9 making 245/330 to a 300 hp crate motor with 340 exhaust (reference the below article) making 315/409. The crate motor is fundamentally a stock 5.9 with a different intake, and the difference in induction made a whopping 70 hp and 74 lb-ft difference, and moved the rpm band up about 500 rpm.

No way an induction change is going to get you 70 hp and 74 lb-ft with everything else being the same, more or less.
The difference is solely that the first rating is given as SAE net (with all accessories AND installed in a vehicle), while the crate motor is rated as SAE gross (on a dyno). Numbers are so deceiving...

 

[Rodzilla]

It all depends on the intended application. The only thing I want from a 6.1 is the block and heads, maybe the rocker arms. I don't want a mag, I already have better la stuff.

Same here, been keeping my eyes peeled for a good deal for awhile now.

 

[DionR]

I guess where much of my point lies is the 318 Mags have a bigger cam and shorter stroke than the 360 Mags- but they're not less drivable. It's just not a tangible difference.

Gotcha, now I understand what you are saying.

 

[DionR]

No way an induction change is going to get you 70 hp and 74 lb-ft with everything else being the same, more or less.
The difference is solely that the first rating is given as SAE net (with all accessories AND installed in a vehicle), while the crate motor is rated as SAE gross (on a dyno). Numbers are so deceiving...

That's a valid point. The exhaust test linked above was done with a water pump, but no alternator, AC compressor or power steering pump. So, it really isn't an apples to apples comparison.

Another issue with my comparison is that I am talking OE rated numbers compared to a dyno run. Who know if the factory rating was accurate, they could have underrated or even overrated them. Couldn't find a dyno run with a kegger to compare, but I did find a chart for a Hypertech tuner where they showed RWHP at 216 @ 4250 and RWTQ at 304 @3250 for a 2000 Ram 5.9, which seems to indicate that a stock 5.9 made more than the rated numbers (hard to believe there would be less than a 12% drivetrain loss, even if it was a 2WD).

But...I would wager that the kegger intake still kills a good amount of hp. Regardless of the dyno runs and who had what accessories on the motor, the 300hp crate motor is still just a stock 5.9 with a carb.