Making the grown up decision

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EXCELLENT response "scamperly" now we are getting somewhere

first I would like to address a few misconceptions you have
none of these cars came with a "show quality" paint job when new, so why does it need one now? you said the paint was still shiny, if that is the case there is no need to repaint the whole thing, just fix the small rust spots and touch it up, the paint on my car sucks and it has rust bubbles just like yours, does that stop me from driving and enjoying it? NO WAY! I will fix them one at a time as I have time, you can always get a nice paint job in the color of your choice when you finish school, and I agree that school should be your #1 priority,

second misconception is that you cant do any of the work your self, truth is driver quality body work is not that hard, and you dont need to quit school or work to do it, yea you wont get professional results but it will be good enough to drive and enjoy the car, and isnt that what its all about?

third thing, for a while it was hard to get rebuilt four piston calipers but rock auto now has them back in stock at a reasonable price

if you think of working on your car as a chore you will never fully enjoy owning it
 
I'd absolutely love to do this myself, but my issue is finding a place to learn, and the other issue is a place to do it. I live in an apartment, and my Dad's garage houses his mustang and things he can't fit in his store, it is not a suitable place to fix a car.

I have done amateur body work before but let me very clear it was bondo, just to fix some holes on a crappy daytona I used to have. I don't have any experience welding and would be starting at square one in that respect which is where the time constraints come in.

If there was someone locally who'd be willing to help me out, teaching me on weekends next summer (only time of the year I have time is when school is out) I could do it, but after spending a year trying to find a mentor, I finally came to accept it won't happen and should probably find a car that doesn't need body work. Mechanical stuff I can handle, and/or Vic can help me the first time, but realistically this car is not the project for me. If it was a mint body and a shot engine I'd be all over it and would never have needed to consider getting rid of it.

It's sometimes hard to remember that, on the internet, people don't know anything about your life, situation, background, etc. and everything is taken at face value.

I also look at it this way: The money I'd put into restoring this car could also go towards buying something better that has the body already done. In 2 or 3 years I'll be near graduation and should have the funds to get a house and a ~$20k muscle car. I'd love to get a hold of a '70 coronet or superbee, or even a 340 or 360 duster/demon, which are all cars I think I'd enjoy more than a /6 scamp, and if I was set on owning a /6 scamp I could get a much cleaner one for much less money than restoring mine.

Also spoke with Vic on the phone today and he made a good point, it's better to part with the car now while I still have fond memories of it, than to start restoring it and end up resenting the car for costing more money than I have/it's worth.
 
scamperly said:
I'd absolutely love to do this myself, but my issue is finding a place to learn, and the other issue is a place to do it. I live in an apartment, and my Dad's garage houses his mustang and things he can't fit in his store, it is not a suitable place to fix a car.

I have done amateur body work before but let me very clear it was bondo, just to fix some holes on a crappy daytona I used to have. I don't have any experience welding and would be starting at square one in that respect which is where the time constraints come in.

If there was someone locally who'd be willing to help me out, teaching me on weekends next summer (only time of the year I have time is when school is out) I could do it, but after spending a year trying to find a mentor, I finally came to accept it won't happen and should probably find a car that doesn't need body work. Mechanical stuff I can handle, and/or Vic can help me the first time, but realistically this car is not the project for me. If it was a mint body and a shot engine I'd be all over it and would never have needed to consider getting rid of it.

It's sometimes hard to remember that, on the internet, people don't know anything about your life, situation, background, etc. and everything is taken at face value.

I also look at it this way: The money I'd put into restoring this car could also go towards buying something better that has the body already done. In 2 or 3 years I'll be near graduation and should have the funds to get a house and a ~$20k muscle car. I'd love to get a hold of a '70 coronet or superbee, or even a 340 or 360 duster/demon, which are all cars I think I'd enjoy more than a /6 scamp, and if I was set on owning a /6 scamp I could get a much cleaner one for much less money than restoring mine.

Also spoke with Vic on the phone today and he made a good point, it's better to part with the car now while I still have fond memories of it, than to start restoring it and end up resenting the car for costing more money than I have/it's worth.
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Sounds like the perfect car to learn with. I don't have a clue what I'm doing with mine but I'm trying. Baby steps and books. Friends if possible. It's quite fun.
 
Oh and no a-body will be worth the money you put into it. I'm sure I'll take flack for that one but it's true. If I put 10 grand in my valiant and sell it I'd get 5 if I was lucky. But that's not what I'm doing it for. It's what I want.
 
I think the scamp is the perfect car to learn on, face it every old car needs work and your going to have to learn sometime, why not just use the scamp to practice with? everything you learn working on it will be useful when you eventually get that superbee or demon, and it sounds like it is only a weekend away from being an OK driver, in the pictures it sure doesnt look like a beater, or total rust bucket, fix the brakes, POR 15 the rust spots and drive it till the wheels fall off!
dont dump tons of money at it, just enough to do what it needs to keep going
there are plenty of us here that dont have "show cars" just drivers, and I think drivers are MUCH more fun anyway!
 
imwith xemperix this is how most people learn is thru doing it yourself you dont need expensive schools or top of the line tools just decent tools and some patience with yourself as far as being worth what you put into it,wont happen especially in this economy.ive got a 79 power wagon and a 71/6 dart to fix up trk is a practice for me my dart will end up bein a v8 never worth a lot but its mine,your car is in great shape especially being where its at have more confidence in yourself for the body work u can do it.
 
caferacerx said:
I think the scamp is the perfect car to learn on, face it every old car needs work and your going to have to learn sometime, why not just use the scamp to practice with? everything you learn working on it will be useful when you eventually get that superbee or demon, and it sounds like it is only a weekend away from being an OK driver, in the pictures it sure doesnt look like a beater, or total rust bucket, fix the brakes, POR 15 the rust spots and drive it till the wheels fall off!
dont dump tons of money at it, just enough to do what it needs to keep going
there are plenty of us here that dont have "show cars" just drivers, and I think drivers are MUCH more fun anyway!
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I concur. BTW any pics of your caferacer if you happen to have one? I just got into bikes this year and love the cafe racer look.

BTW what is POR 15?
 
scamperly said:
I concur. BTW any pics of your caferacer if you happen to have one? I just got into bikes this year and love the cafe racer look.

BTW what is POR 15?
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I have about 20 or so bikes, unfortunately most of them are projects, or awaiting restoration, 50's and 60's cafe bikes are my favorite style of custom' never got into the chopper thing, my current ride is a dresser harley, not as cool as a cafe but much more comfortable on long rides (getting old sucks)

a small list of bikes in no particular order

1 1963 triumph Bonneville
2 1966 Harley XLCH
3 1967 honda 305 dream
4 1968 triumph 500cc
5 1969 triumph 250cc single (realy a B.S.A. B25 with triumph badges)
6 1975 Moto Guzzi 850 Intercepter
7 1976 honda CB750F super sport
8 1979 honda CBX six cylinder
9 1980 B.M.W. R100 CS
10 1989 honda GB500
 

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xempirex said:
Oh and no a-body will be worth the money you put into it. I'm sure I'll take flack for that one but it's true. If I put 10 grand in my valiant and sell it I'd get 5 if I was lucky. But that's not what I'm doing it for. It's what I want.
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Generally speaking this is true. You just KNOW a little a body is gonna get driven hard sometimes. It's the same with almost every hotrod ,you lose when you sell...
 
scamperly said:
I'd absolutely love to do this myself, but my issue is finding a place to learn, and the other issue is a place to do it. I live in an apartment, and my Dad's garage houses his mustang and things he can't fit in his store, it is not a suitable place to fix a car.

I have done amateur body work before but let me very clear it was bondo, just to fix some holes on a crappy daytona I used to have. I don't have any experience welding and would be starting at square one in that respect which is where the time constraints come in.

If there was someone locally who'd be willing to help me out, teaching me on weekends next summer (only time of the year I have time is when school is out) I could do it, but after spending a year trying to find a mentor, I finally came to accept it won't happen and should probably find a car that doesn't need body work. Mechanical stuff I can handle, and/or Vic can help me the first time, but realistically this car is not the project for me. If it was a mint body and a shot engine I'd be all over it and would never have needed to consider getting rid of it.

It's sometimes hard to remember that, on the internet, people don't know anything about your life, situation, background, etc. and everything is taken at face value.

I also look at it this way: The money I'd put into restoring this car could also go towards buying something better that has the body already done. In 2 or 3 years I'll be near graduation and should have the funds to get a house and a ~$20k muscle car. I'd love to get a hold of a '70 coronet or superbee, or even a 340 or 360 duster/demon, which are all cars I think I'd enjoy more than a /6 scamp, and if I was set on owning a /6 scamp I could get a much cleaner one for much less money than restoring mine.

Also spoke with Vic on the phone today and he made a good point, it's better to part with the car now while I still have fond memories of it, than to start restoring it and end up resenting the car for costing more money than I have/it's worth.
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What do you want for that old rust bucket with that tired old /6 and a brake caliper that has been sticking for 2 years? Sounds like you just need a newer car that will also rust, wear out, depreciate and become wothless because you lack the ability to do anything to it before you can get it paid for. There is a major clue here since you are already 22 and that is the sticking caliper that you like the ambition to fix. Your next car will be the same way if you don't get off your butt and learn something on a simple car like you have now. You will be the dream for the mechanics, body shops and the car lots for many years to come. Maybe one of the members in Canada would happily take it out of your misery.
 
I owned my car when I lived with my parents. I moved into an apartment and had no money to fix it when the valves went to hell. Rather than buy a set of heads and have them reconditioned, which was expensive, I wanted to rebuild the engine, which is even more expensive!

So, it sat in storage for 15 years or so. That's when I had the money to make it happen. If you don't want to hang on to the car until you have the funds to do it right, I understand.
 
Oklacarcollecto said:
What do you want for that old rust bucket with that tired old /6 and a brake caliper that has been sticking for 2 years? Sounds like you just need a newer car that will also rust, wear out, depreciate and become wothless because you lack the ability to do anything to it before you can get it paid for. There is a major clue here since you are already 22 and that is the sticking caliper that you like the ambition to fix. Your next car will be the same way if you don't get off your butt and learn something on a simple car like you have now. You will be the dream for the mechanics, body shops and the car lots for many years to come. Maybe one of the members in Canada would happily take it out of your misery.
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You're a little late to the fight my friend. Read my previous post where I explain why the caliper hasn't been fixed. Read the whole thread first, then sling your dirt if you still feel so inclined. :banghead:
 
scamperly said:
You're a little late to the fight my friend. Read my previous post where I explain why the caliper hasn't been fixed. Read the whole thread first, then sling your dirt if you still feel so inclined. :banghead:
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There is no fight, I am trying to get you to wake up and pay attention.
I have read this entire thread since it was first posted. If you wanted to fix the caliper you would have found a way even though you dad's garage is full and the Mustang is there.
 
Best thing to do is go ahead and sell it and continue with your plan to buy a car that someone else has done the work on.

You seem like a nice guy, but not one that has any motivation to restore a car. Usually people that embark on restoration projects that they aren't emotionally committed to end up ruining the car by taking it apart and leaving it that way, since we all know taking one apart is 1000 times easier than putting it back together.

You're getting a lot of "solutions" to your situation, but I think i would make it clear that the solution you are after from the very first post is $$.

That's a nice car...someone will make it super sharp.
 
Oklacarcollecto said:
There is no fight, I am trying to get you to wake up and pay attention.
I have read this entire thread since it was first posted. If you wanted to fix the caliper you would have found a way even though you dad's garage is full and the Mustang is there.
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You seem to ignore the fact that I ordered from a couple different places and got refunded because they weren't available at the time, and that I was trying to find someone to teach me how to do body work for over a year. This is why I was under the impression you haven't actually read the whole thread.

I also barely drive the car, and was going to attempt to source calipers while it was off getting redone. If the calipers had arrived like I hoped I would've fixed it on the street for all I care, but that wasn't the reality I was living in and was willing to wait because I wanted to get the body redone and then replace a bunch of mechanical things when it came back.

But that's beside the point because I am probably not going through with a resto now, it's just too costly, and I will probably just find another car that doesn't need body work, which I can drive and do light tinkering on for half the year, and store for the other half.
 
I guess what it comes down to at this point is the body work. IMO, even though there is rust, if the rust is just on panels and rockers, I'd drive it as is during warm weather. Realistically, the rust will not get worse to the point that it would require more extensive repairs. Basic body repairs are doable, and if you are looking for a B-body then you may as well get some practice :).

If driving with rust really bugs you, then ignore above lol.

Grant
 
scamperly said:
Alright it's time to set some things straight.

Since you're so fixated on the brake problem let me elaborate:
The car started eating brakes in 2007, I thought it was a bad rotor so I replaced the pads and rotors. The problem came back in 2008 so I ordered new calipers from rockauto and then got a refund when I was told they weren't in stock. I also started trying to source a good set of calipers online but couldn't find any so I instead had the rotors machined two different times while I tried to get a hand on some calipers. I haven't been driving the car much in the last few years because I was trying to squirrel away money and parts and save up to do everything at once.

The car sits most of the year, and saw a week of action this year when my daily had a flat and I had to wait a week to get the tire in because no local shops had the size I need. I take it out and drive it every once in a while in the summer, but it realistically barely sees even 500kms in a year right now because of the condition it's in.

Why was I looking for a show quality resto? Because if a job is worth doing it's worth doing right. I can spend $7000 at a shop getting a mediocre paint job or $8500 getting a good one. The fact is that neither of those are affordable but the point of the matter is I've never been a person to settle for mediocre.

As far as hard work and dedication go, my car comes after I have my future taken care of. I've been living by myself, paying for school myself, and working full time since 2007. Putting in a full time course load and full time work is not an easy thing to balance in your life, and I spent all last year and the year before trying to find someone to mentor me on the weekends so I could do my car and hopefully do it myself. Didn't get a single response in my search (even made two threads on FaBO). Now that I'm in the upper years of my University career my courses demand even more time from me, so finding a mentor for body work isn't an option anymore.

I worked 28 days in August 2011. 31 days in August 2012. I work my *** off to afford the middle class lifestyle I enjoy and to afford University so that one day I may not have to work myself to death to live comfortably. I got to where I am today by being realistic about things.

Can I afford a classic car? Definitely. Do I have the money to sink into the car? Yes. Would it be a good decision putting that amount of money into a car that, if I needed to, I couldn't sell for even half what ended up going into? No.

I love my Scamp. My first kiss was in this car. My whole high school life was in this car. It has never stranded me, has never broken the bank as far as repairs are concerned, I've had lots of great road trips and adventures in it but frankly I have two choices for restoring it and both of them cost me my future.

Choice #1: Learn to do the body work myself: That means giving up school or work or both. Not an option.

Choice #2: Pay someone to do it. That means sinking more money into the car than it's worth and possibly breaking the bank doing so. If something, god forbid, happened to my job and I needed to sell the car I'd be ruined.

Maybe I should've been more clear about the situation, but mainly I was looking for people's opinions and thoughts who've been in the same place. Making the rational decision instead of the emotional one. It's hard to separate the two sometimes but the only way to get ahead in life is to do what makes sense. When you have money to burn you can sink whatever you want into your emotional frivolities but frankly that's not an option in my case, at least not until I get to the career I want.

For now I'll do what's right for me in the present to protect my future.
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choice #3: fix the brakes and just drive the thing until you can afford to do the body. really if you take care of the car how much worse do you think the body will get? if it needs lower quarters now it will still need them 5 years from now. big deal. drive it have fun with it and when the time comes you can build it like you want. whats the rush?



as far as the caliper goes what exactly do you have? small bolt disc? if so they are out there rebuilt. i have seen links in the past for them. if its the 73-up discs then you can get them just about anywhere pretty cheap..




like i said earlier i hear ya man.. its a lot of money for a young kid to be playing with these cars. especially if your paying for school for yourself. when i started playing with these things in the 80's you could still get a spotless dart for $500, spotless challenger rag tops for $1100, every junbk yard was full of cheap parts. hell there were rows of a,b and e bodies in the yards by me back then. these days those yards are cleaned out, with battet jackson people think parts are gold. can you build a car kinda cheap? sure but it takes a ton of leg work and many years to find the good deals to keep it cheap. the older civics and things like that are very comparable in age and part avalibility as was late 60's and early 70's cars and parts were for me in the late 80's. sucks but hey thats how it is. they haven't made these cars for 40 years so supply and demand kicks in big time..
 
Why would you have to give up school or work to learn body work? All you have to do is do some research online and then not be afraid to put the tools down to your car and get started. People here will coach you every step of the way no matter how detailed you need them to get.

You sound like one of those people who just uses "time" as an excuse to not do anything. 99% of us have PLENTY of free time. Whether its an hour here or there, a few hours on a Saturday or Sunday...we all have time. It's up to you whether you want to spend that time learning how to work on your car or doing something else.

You act like your career and well being is going to be destroyed by learning how to do body work.
 
scamperly said:
You seem to ignore the fact that I ordered from a couple different places and got refunded because they weren't available at the time, and that I was trying to find someone to teach me how to do body work for over a year. This is why I was under the impression you haven't actually read the whole thread.

I also barely drive the car, and was going to attempt to source calipers while it was off getting redone. If the calipers had arrived like I hoped I would've fixed it on the street for all I care, but that wasn't the reality I was living in and was willing to wait because I wanted to get the body redone and then replace a bunch of mechanical things when it came back.

But that's beside the point because I am probably not going through with a resto now, it's just too costly, and I will probably just find another car that doesn't need body work, which I can drive and do light tinkering on for half the year, and store for the other half.
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Here I will make it easy for you. I pullled 5 sources and pasted this information in less than 4 miniutes. Now you know where you can get them. The prices are going up.



This discount code 68447755682461 expires on November 6, 2011 for purchases from RocKk Auto. They just sold the last right caliper on the Raybestos line because when I saw the price increases I thought I better get some spares.



http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php

Here is the rubber kit to rebuild you caliper. It does all 4 pistons. Brake/Wheel Hub : Caliper Repair Kit
RAYBESTOS Part # WK518 Bore = 1-5/8" Professional Grade; Caliper Seal Kit $13.81


RAYBESTOS Part # FRC4176
MoreInfo2.png
Professional Grade; Friction Ready - Pads Not Included, Remanufactured; Bore Size=1.64" Inlet Thread=3/8X24 Bleeder Thread=3/8X24
Front; Left; 4 Piston Calipers $61.79 plus core.

RAYBESTOS Part # FRC4175
MoreInfo2.png
Professional Grade; Friction Ready - Pads Not Included, Remanufactured
Front; Right; 4 Piston Calipers $61.79 plus core. *** Out of stock but the will get more. Still available in a loaded caliper from RAYBESTOS on RockAuto.


CENTRIC Part # 14163008 Premium Semi-Loaded Caliper
Front Disc brakes; Front Left $48.89

CENTRIC Part # 14163007 Premium Semi-Loaded Caliper
Front Disc brakes; Front Right $48.89



http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/1972-Dodge-Dart/Brake-Caliper-Front/_/N-ipmjhZ8knro

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/s...er&year=1972&make=Dodge&model=Dart&vi=1088445

Only showing drivers side available.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...-Fenco_3761428-P_1162_R|GRPBRHYAMS_1834161590____

Napa can send mine in to CardOne and have the rebuilt.
 
I also think $8500 is a lot for some patch panels and paint especially considering how good the car looks already.

I am getting nervous about how much my fish will cost. Body man coming over tonight. No way will I spend over $4K to get the rear quarters fixed and the car painted. Even that is too high to me.

Would never get it back out of the car, even discounting all the fun I would have in it.
 
scamperly said:
You seem to ignore the fact that I ordered from a couple different places and got refunded because they weren't available at the time, and that I was trying to find someone to teach me how to do body work for over a year. This is why I was under the impression you haven't actually read the whole thread.

I also barely drive the car, and was going to attempt to source calipers while it was off getting redone. If the calipers had arrived like I hoped I would've fixed it on the street for all I care, but that wasn't the reality I was living in and was willing to wait because I wanted to get the body redone and then replace a bunch of mechanical things when it came back.

But that's beside the point because I am probably not going through with a resto now, it's just too costly, and I will probably just find another car that doesn't need body work, which I can drive and do light tinkering on for half the year, and store for the other half.
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I think this is a mistake, but only you know if it is the correct decision for your circumstances
 
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