Making the grown up decision

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scamperly

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Joined
Mar 13, 2008
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Location
Winnipeg, MB Canada
Background:

In 2004 I bought a 1972 scamp with 31,000 kms on it (converted to km/h in 1974) off the original owner with a huge stack of documentation on the car. It had a little bubbling in the rear 1/4s but was otherwise in great shape.

I drove the car throughout highschool, with barely enough money for gas let alone fixing problems that came up. It started eating brakes in 2007 because of a sticky caliper that I still haven't fixed.

I became known for this car. If you say the word "scamp" around any of my friends, my name will come up immediately. it's gold with a black vinyl top. The body is still rather solid.

The dilemma:
In the last 2 years that bubbling in the rear 1/4 panels has become real rust. There is bubbling in the fenders and a little under the top but the body is incredibly solid otherwise. Never been in an accident. It needs carb work and a serious tuneup. The calipers in the front need to be redone along with the rotors. Paint is still shiny but if you're fixing rust the whole car should really be painted.

I got a quote for the body work. Since I can't do it myself, the bill is $8500 from an independent guy who does amazing work (a shop is probably more). I cannot justify throwing $8500 at this car, a finished one would be cheaper, and let's be honest: That's a starting point for a restoration.

Over the years I accrued a 390cfm holley 4bbl with an intake, a new radiator, dual exhaust headers, with the intention of freshening up the six. That appears now to be a distant dream. These will probably be sold. I have another set of small bolt rallye wheels I should get rid of. And a rad. Tons of stuff that I bought when I thought a $5000 body job was realistic.

I can't justify putting that much money into a car when there are other muscle cars I'd much rather have if I'm getting into that price range. I don't have the time, knowledge, space or experience to learn body work myself. If I keep the car it'll be run into the ground in only a couple years (if I'm lucky). Being attached emotionally to a car seems unreasonable, especially when I usually only keep a car for 6 months at best. (i'm 22, have owned 14 cars 2 motorcycles and a scooter).

I guess it's time to part with the car. I have no idea what it's worth in the Canadian market. It has ~40,000 miles on it now (70,000kms according to the kph reading). I can't stand the thought of it getting parted out. I want to put it for sale but don't know what to ask and the emotional side of me says don't do it. The logical side says I should cut my losses and put the money towards a car I really want like a '70 coronet or superbee or something else in the 10k-20k range.

Cliff's: Time to part with my first car, don't know how much to ask or how to make sure it doesn't get chopped up.

Your thoughts? Ever been in a similar situation, and if so what happened? What would you do if you were me?

Thanks FABO! You guys are the only ones who really get situations like this.
 
I definetly understand what your feeling.
In terms of pricing, pics would help determine that value.
I am gathering that it is a /6 because of the 390 with a four barrell manifold that you have for it?
 
Cliff's: Time to part with my first car, don't know how much to ask or how to make sure it doesn't get chopped up.

Your thoughts? Ever been in a similar situation, and if so what happened? What would you do if you were me?

Thanks FABO! You guys are the only ones who really get situations like this.

I am going through this right now. I have several cars that I have hung on to for a number of years. I am chopping all of them up. I have decided to chop up a very nice unmolested 99% rust free 1967 Barracuda just to have spare parts for my convertible. I have figured out that my emotional attachments to something that I will never fix is stupid. Keep what will fit my keeper cars and sell the other parts so others can get their cars on the road.
 
its only if u want it bad to keep her .. now that being said if u got the paint and what not try to do it ur self if u can read it not that hard ... in less u dont have the time ...... now i sold my 1st car 4 years ago it was just a 69 dodge coronet 4 door 500 clean car but i miss it still i wish i would not have sold it but hay in a round bout way it got me a bcuda
 
I definetly understand what your feeling.
In terms of pricing, pics would help determine that value.
I am gathering that it is a /6 because of the 390 with a four barrell manifold that you have for it?


Yup, 225 /6. Here are pics from when my friend did a full detail job for my bithday back in June.
scampdetail1.jpg

scampdetail2.jpg

scampdetail3.jpg

scampdetail4.jpg

scampdetail5.jpg

scampdetail6.jpg


Also should mention there are 2 project scamps for sale here, one for ~$1200 with the body work started, one for $2600 and it's a 1975. There are a few ragged parts cars for <$800 that are sitting in fields. That's what I've concluded so far. My Dad always asked for right to first refusal and I'd give it to him for $2000, but do you think $3000 on the market is unreasonable?
 
WOAH, back that baby up!! If a guy is trying to charge you $8500 to repair that he is screwing you over unless there is major issues under the car. That car looks like it only needs some patch panels. What is the floor pans, frame rails and the spare well like?
 
WOAH, back that baby up!! If a guy is trying to charge you $8500 to repair that he is screwing you over unless there is major issues under the car. That car looks like it only needs some patch panels. What is the floor pans, frame rails and the spare well like?

Spare is fine. Haven't looked at the floor so I can't comment on it. Rockers need work, bottom of the doors too, there is bubbling under the vinyl top and and the fenders could use some patching. Top of the wheels wells have through rust (visible under the hood) and this is including a full paint job since this paint is 40 years old and has a number of visible scratches and stuff in it. I also asked to change the colour since I am not a huge fan of the gold. I'm sure if I kept it gold and left the roof on I could get it for ~$5k but then why spend $5k on it if I can't have it the way I want it (green) and why do it if it's not being done right?

Also $8500 is if he supplies the panels since I couldn't source any myself for a reasonable cost. Yes I know the car is quite solid but let's also remember that you can't use the cheaper lead based paints or anything else that isn't "environmentally friendly" due to new laws, which means that the cost of paint is a lot higher.
 
WOAH, back that baby up!! If a guy is trying to charge you $8500 to repair that he is screwing you over unless there is major issues under the car. That car looks like it only needs some patch panels. What is the floor pans, frame rails and the spare well like?

Damn, that car is too clean to part out. I was talking to a good body guy yesterday and asked him how much would it be to paint my son's 71 Valiant. He stated that just a paint job runs $3 k.

There is no way that there is 5 k of body work on there.

Have you tried looking at Tamraz auto parts for the patch panels? They have some for early a bodies.

Get more quotes from other body guys. That guy is too high. If not, drive it down here. I'll treat you to pizza and give you a ride to the airport and back to pick it up when it is done.

As far as the other mechanical problems, they can be fixed for the 5K difference (or way less) the other body guy was going to charge...

That is a nice Scamp, it would be a shame to part it out.
 
Got to agree with krazykuda- that lil' Scamp is sweet! All in all, it's your car to do with as you will, but I'd hope you take him up on his offer, if for no other reason than to see what costs are in Il. Good luck any way you decide to go!
 
well i was thinking stuff had went over priced agin im glad to see i was wrong find a new body guy man
 
btw if my bcuda was that clean i would be driving the sucker lol

How about, "If my Barracuda was that clean, I'd never leave the house..." LOL!

Beavis & Butthead reference

Seriously, that is a clean car. It should be driven in nice weather and stored in winter. Cruise, baby, cruise...
 
How about, "If my Barracuda was that clean, I'd never leave the house..." LOL!

Beavis & Butthead reference

Seriously, that is a clean car. It should be driven in nice weather and stored in winter. Cruise, baby, cruise...
ya thats all fixable its littel stuff even :supz: if needs floors
 
WOAH, back that baby up!! If a guy is trying to charge you $8500 to repair that he is screwing you over unless there is major issues under the car. That car looks like it only needs some patch panels. What is the floor pans, frame rails and the spare well like?


that $8500 was for the repair and total paint job. thats in line with quality paint work.
 
then sell it and save for what you want. this isn't the greatest hobby for a 22 year old anymore. these rust buckets just cost too damn much anymore. looking at the pics you posted i'd say its worth between $2500-maybe $4000 depending on how the car runs and what the rest of it looks like.
 
A car that runs good and drives good doesn't get parted out. There are a lot of people who want to find affordable transportation. If you are one of those, just do what you can to stop the body panel rust and drive it. If you dont need the car pass it on to someone who does.
 
where are u getting ur info ? btw that not ment any kind of bad way its a real ????????:blob:


which information???

this is what the op said.. "Paint is still shiny but if you're fixing rust the whole car should really be painted." so that $8500 is for the rust fix and paint..


or that $8500 isn't bad for the fix and quality paint work?

i know a couple guys that do body and paint on the side. that **** isn't cheap. i'm talking quality work not ,some maaco crap work here... look at some of the threads on paint work on different mopar forums.. $8500 is on the cheap side for quality work.. its just crazy man..
 
which information???

this is what the op said.. "Paint is still shiny but if you're fixing rust the whole car should really be painted." so that $8500 is for the rust fix and paint..


or that $8500 isn't bad for the fix and quality paint work?

i know a couple guys that do body and paint on the side. that **** isn't cheap. i'm talking quality work not ,some maaco crap work here... look at some of the threads on paint work on different mopar forums.. $8500 is on the cheap side for quality work.. its just crazy man..

The guy I was talking to is far from a Maco job. He does great work. My brother referred me to him. My brother did body work for 12 years and is now an insurance adjuster for automotive accidents. He knows his ****. He can look at any car and tell you where it has been repaired and or repainted. He has been involved with automotive body work for almost 30 years now. He knows most of the body shops around here and deals with them on a regular basis.

I accidentally backed into my 05 Impala in the driveway with my full sized pickup 4x4 at like 5 mph. bent the hood, a little of the fender and cracked the headlights, and scratched the top of the fascia a little. I took it to a state farm recommended shop and they quoted $1900 - $2400 with the a little more if there is hidden damage. I took it to this guy and he quoted me $900 and the hidden damage claim, and I had to get a new headlight. The hood was the worst damage, the other shop wanted to replace it, this guy unbent it and did a great job. You can't even see any of the damage from the accident and he only charged me $800 when I picked it up yesterday.

He is by far above Maco. He worked for one of the guys my brother did for 5 years and now has his own shop. Just because he has reasonable rates does not mean he is a hacker. He probably did give me a little more of a break because he knows my brother, but he does great work and is reasonably priced. I've seen lots of expensive guys that do crappy work. You have to judge their work, not their price to see how good a body guy is. My brother recommended him to me because he is good at straightening out bent metal. He saved my hood instead of replace it. My Impala is in excellent shape with no rust and 70 k original miles with a supercharged 3.8 liter v6.

My brother also told me about another guy that is more expensive, but specializes in restoring old BLACK cars. He is expensive because he does good work and can make a black car look good. He says it will be like a mirror when he is done and straight as an arrow. We will probably use him to do the paint job on my son's black on black 72 Challenger Ralley.

However the first guy I went to does great work. I'll put him up against the $8500 guy any day. Please don't hack on him and beat up on him until you see his work. :axe: :violent1:

Like I said, if you can't find a good reasonable guy by you, drive the car down here and let him fix it when you have the money. I will buy you a pizza dinner and give you a ride to and from the airport when it is ready to be picked up. The pizza here is awesome, just ask Waggin, I sent a few to him when he built the ramp for Bruce.
 
The guy I was talking to is far from a Maco job. He does great work. My brother referred me to him. My brother did body work for 12 years and is now an insurance adjuster for automotive accidents. He knows his ****. He can look at any car and tell you where it has been repaired and or repainted. He has been involved with automotive body work for almost 30 years now. He knows most of the body shops around here and deals with them on a regular basis.

I accidentally backed into my 05 Impala in the driveway with my full sized pickup 4x4 at like 5 mph. bent the hood, a little of the fender and cracked the headlights, and scratched the top of the fascia a little. I took it to a state farm recommended shop and they quoted $1900 - $2400 with the a little more if there is hidden damage. I took it to this guy and he quoted me $900 and the hidden damage claim, and I had to get a new headlight. The hood was the worst damage, the other shop wanted to replace it, this guy unbent it and did a great job. You can't even see any of the damage from the accident and he only charged me $800 when I picked it up yesterday.

He is by far above Maco. He worked for one of the guys my brother did for 5 years and now has his own shop. Just because he has reasonable rates does not mean he is a hacker. He probably did give me a little more of a break because he knows my brother, but he does great work and is reasonably priced. I've seen lots of expensive guys that do crappy work. You have to judge their work, not their price to see how good a body guy is. My brother recommended him to me because he is good at straightening out bent metal. He saved my hood instead of replace it. My Impala is in excellent shape with no rust and 70 k original miles with a supercharged 3.8 liter v6.

My brother also told me about another guy that is more expensive, but specializes in restoring old BLACK cars. He is expensive because he does good work and can make a black car look good. He says it will be like a mirror when he is done and straight as an arrow. We will probably use him to do the paint job on my son's black on black 72 Challenger Ralley.

However the first guy I went to does great work. I'll put him up against the $8500 guy any day. Please don't hack on him and beat up on him until you see his work. :axe: :violent1:

Like I said, if you can't find a good reasonable guy by you, drive the car down here and let him fix it when you have the money. I will buy you a pizza dinner and give you a ride to and from the airport when it is ready to be picked up. The pizza here is awesome, just ask Waggin, I sent a few to him when he built the ramp for Bruce.


what the hell are you talking about????? i didn't say anything negative about anyones work. all i said was $8500 isn't a bad price for rust repair and a quality paint job. look around and see what guys are paying.. its in that ball park.. if you have a cheap guy that does great work thats awesome but also not the norm..
 
what the hell are you talking about????? i didn't say anything negative about anyones work. all i said was $8500 isn't a bad price for rust repair and a quality paint job. look around and see what guys are paying.. its in that ball park.. if you have a cheap guy that does great work thats awesome but also not the norm..

I'm with abodyjoe.
You get what you pay for.
I know i'm in a different country so our pricing structure is probably different but the AUS$ and US$ are pretty much the same these days.

One thing I will mention (and it's not intended to stir any arguements) but our standards are much higher over here.I've seen too many imports with "show quality" paint jobs that would fall into the category of a "cheap backyard job" over here.

My 72 Dart Swinger was blasted to a bare shell,minimal rust tended to,bodywork,prime,paint and striping done for $6000.This was cheap as it was a new shop's first job and they really wanted the job to kick off their business.Other similar jobs I've seen them do run into $9-10K which is what you pay for a really nice driver quality job.

In contrast I paid $20K 5 years ago for a quality job on my challenger.The shop promised me for my money I would pull "Top Panel and Paint" at any show OUTSIDE of any capital city.
I got what I paid for.It turns heads and pulls trophies wherever I take it.

There is a LOT of time in a decent body/paint job and time has to be paid for.
 
which information???

this is what the op said.. "Paint is still shiny but if you're fixing rust the whole car should really be painted." so that $8500 is for the rust fix and paint..


or that $8500 isn't bad for the fix and quality paint work?

i know a couple guys that do body and paint on the side. that **** isn't cheap. i'm talking quality work not ,some maaco crap work here... look at some of the threads on paint work on different mopar forums.. $8500 is on the cheap side for quality work.. its just crazy man..

I guess it is all about where you are located. NJ had hamburgers that cost double also when when I was a kid when compared to Oklahoma. I recall that really well because my neighbor's oldest daughter made several comments about it when she was visiting Oklahoma. In Oklahoma $8500 is a total rip off if that is all the rust (as he stated) in that car even with a total repaint with color change. This car is metal not full of a bunch of plastic crap you have to buy. Looks like there is a Canadian seller on eBay (smsautoclassic) that has patch panels for the quarters at $159.95 each side.
 
Spare is fine. Haven't looked at the floor so I can't comment on it. Rockers need work, bottom of the doors too, there is bubbling under the vinyl top and and the fenders could use some patching. Top of the wheels wells have through rust (visible under the hood) and this is including a full paint job since this paint is 40 years old and has a number of visible scratches and stuff in it. I also asked to change the colour since I am not a huge fan of the gold. I'm sure if I kept it gold and left the roof on I could get it for ~$5k but then why spend $5k on it if I can't have it the way I want it (green) and why do it if it's not being done right?

Also $8500 is if he supplies the panels since I couldn't source any myself for a reasonable cost. Yes I know the car is quite solid but let's also remember that you can't use the cheaper lead based paints or anything else that isn't "environmentally friendly" due to new laws, which means that the cost of paint is a lot higher.

Quality paint is costly but I can tell you we did a high pigment tri-stage red used on a 1993 Probe and the paint plus all the supplies cost right at a $1000 but this was 2 years ago. I would get an estimate from him with a total break down on costs to include parts, materials, shop supplies/paint and labor so you know exactly what each item is costing. I would also want to have the brand and part number of every paint finish product he want to use. You can take a quality company like PPG and they sell a lesser quality cheaper paint also.
 
$8500 is on the cheap side for quality work..

Joe:

It was this comment that sorta made me think you were bashing the guy I was talking about. I sorta read into it that because my guy probably would be cheaper than $8500 he wouldn't do quality work.

I'm sorry if that is not what you meant. I'm not trying to start anything here, just pointing out that I think $8500 is high for how clean his Scamp is.

I also don't agree with the comment that this is not a hobby for 22 year olds. I welcome the young guys here and encourage them to get into the hobby. They are the ones that will have to carry on the tradition when us old farts are gone. Besides these cars are capable of being fixed in a garage with a standard set of tools and a service manual. Not special tools and computer hook ups like new cars.

Yeah, it can cost a little. But the b and e bodies are too expensive even for some of us old farts. The a bodies are more affordable and also weigh less, so they go faster with the same horsepower. I think that a bodies are a great start for a young person (male or female) that likes to work on cars. It will also help keep them on a good path. If they invest all/most of their money in their cars, they won't have any to get involved in drugs. And they have much more to show for it when they finish their project. Not to mention the pride, sense of accomplishment, and boost of their self esteem when they finish their cars.

There is nothing like the thrill that goes up and down your spine when you have rebuilt your first engine and start it for the first time. It's way better than any drug out there. When you hear the engine start and come to life, and you know it was your work that did it, and that rush that goes through your body when the engine roars to life...all because of you. You can't wait to get the cam broke in and the engine tuned so you can cruise it around and show all of your friends. It makes you want to do it again...

Why keep this from the new generation? They deserve to feel it just like we did. Not to mention all that they have learned to get that far.
 
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