manual trans

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mathewdylang

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So i didnt know whether to put this here or trans, so here goes. I know my duster was a factory 3 spd slant car. An awesome gentleman on here is giving me a great deal on a 225. What trans goes behind it? Can a 4 spd be used since i want to turbo it?
 
Yes.
And better yet if it's a floor shift car, then it would have the hump in the floor already.
The bell housing should have both bolt patterns, one for the 4 speed, and one for the 3 speed.
If it's a 4 speed overdrive, you will need a different bell housing because the front bearing retainer is larger on the o/d than the 3 or 4 speed.
 
I don't know why people say get a different bellhousing. It's cheaper to get the matching bearing retainer.
 
What about the mid 70's 3-speed bell housings that are aluminum? Do they have the correct size hole?
 
3 speeds don't have the greatest ratios, An A833 4 speed Od is pretty much the same as a 3 speed but with a 4th gear overdrive. And a standard A833 has better ratios then both but 4th gear is the same as 3rd gear in both the 3 speed and 4 speed Od.
 
I ran a 833-OD behind my slant and it's a bit more fun than the auto. The main issue with the manual behind a turbo slant is the clutch. Be prepared to have the flywheel drilled to accept a modern diaphragm clutch. There are some posts over at .org that have details on what some folks did.
I smoked the first stock clutch that I had. I ended up with a Ram clutchs HD something or other that seemed to be right at it's limit at 8 lbs of boost.
 
With the manual you lose the boost every time you shift, assuming you are not WOT (wide open throttle) shifting. With the auto, the boost is there the whole time you are going through the gears. It is even easier to build boost for the launch.
 
I don't know why people say get a different bellhousing. It's cheaper to get the matching bearing retainer.

I thought the same thing until i discovered you had to slot the holes on mine to make it work.
So either you need to change the bell housing or have the old one machined for the proper size retainer if you want to do it right and not take a chance on the bearing retainer getting loose, cracking, or leaking out of the slots.
That is if you want to do it right and aren't lucky enough to find a tranny with a 307 front bearing.
All of the slant 6 o/d trannies i've seen had the smaller 3.7'' bolt circle and the 308 bearing. The other o/d for the 318 were the bigger front bearing and are pretty rare compared to the slant 6 ones.
I'm just trying to help the guy so that he will be forewarned that there may be issues depending on what particular trans he ends up with.

http://www.brewersperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BR23R
 
Then you didn't get the right one. There are actually six different retainers. There are both large and small bolt pattern large and small diameter retainers.
 
What auto transmission should i look for than? 727 or 904, or something else completely? Maybe i can put buckets in with a console shift auto?
 
904. Too bad you are so far off. I have one I would give you. The fluid is still bright red in it.
 
Last time i knew my uncle had a couple. Bell housing differs v8 to slant correct? Are they interchangable? Sorry for all the questions. I just want to do this right.
 
Yes the v8 and slant pattern are different. Since the auto's have integrated bells, they aren't interchangeable. You'll need a slant 904, pretty common and should be CHEAP to free even in perfect working order. I had to scrap mine when I went to a manual because I couldn't give it away. Tripped over it in the garage for almost a year and had to ditch it.
 
Well maybe i will get lucky and find a give away trans lol. Seems like without beng interchangable is gonna be another search as i think my ncle and his friend only have v8 anything.
 
Then you didn't get the right one. There are actually six different retainers. There are both large and small bolt pattern large and small diameter retainers.

Thanks.
You got an idea where i can get one?
(Or everyone else for that matter?)
 
Thanks.
You got an idea where i can get one?
(Or everyone else for that matter?)

Whatever you do, don't put a 727 in there. It will eat horsepower to the tune of costing you 2-3 car-lengths in the quarter-mile, and , and the 904 is plenty strong enough to handle anything a turbo'd slant six can put out.

From what I have seen, a manual transmission is not a very workable setup, compared with a 904 in a turbo application; it can be done, but as a previous poster pointed out, there are problems (inadequate clutch, losing boost on shifts, building boost at the starting line, etc.) Do yourself a favor and try an automatic the first time.A stock torque converter and a rebuild with a shift kit should work well.

Just my 2-cents....
 
Stick shift & turbo?? Good luck with that....not a forced induction guy but from everything I have seen you will need a bit of nitrous to get it to spool from a stand still. And it will probably fall off boost when you shift. Not to mention sticks are a bit abusive on parts...
 
This all must be a slant thing. I understand the old style clutchs not holding up, but why wont it build boost at the line? Like ive already said im now going 904 auto, but out of the 5 turbo cars ive owned in my life ive spooled all before launch without a problem. Can someone explain why the slant wont? As far as losing boost between shifts unless youre drag racing you arent out of boost long enough to hurt anything. I actually used go be able to shift faster than my bov could open in my talon. So i never really "lost" boost. Is this all just slant or because its carb? Id love more info on all of this.
 
This all must be a slant thing. I understand the old style clutchs not holding up, but why wont it build boost at the line? Like ive already said im now going 904 auto, but out of the 5 turbo cars ive owned in my life ive spooled all before launch without a problem. Can someone explain why the slant wont? As far as losing boost between shifts unless youre drag racing you arent out of boost long enough to hurt anything. I actually used go be able to shift faster than my bov could open in my talon. So i never really "lost" boost. Is this all just slant or because its carb? Id love more info on all of this.

Generally-speaking, turbos need load on the motor to build boost, because there's not enough exhaust being produced at the smaller throttle opening, to spool the turbo. The turbo systems they put on OEM applications like yours was, are generally undersized turbos that spool quickly, but run out of breath early, compared with a larger unit. They are purposefully built that way to enhance driveability and minimize lag time. The turbos that most folks (like me, for instance) are using are NOT carefully-sized and are more than likely, too large for the application as regards being slanted toward a quick-spool, so it would be really hard to put enough exhaust through the turbo to build boost under no load at the starting line (clutch disengaged, ready for launch.)

You can't open the throttle wide enough to generate enough exhaust to spool this (larger) turbo (like most of us run on these home-built projects) without over-revving the engine. A Two step MIGHT work for this, but it's disabling the ignition to keep the revs down, which causes not as mush exhaust to be created, so, I dunno... might work, but I doubt it.

If you could power-shift (leave the throttle down), the boost probably would not go away on the shifts, true. That might negate that problem, but it might also, create a situation that could end up floating the valves while there was no load on an engine that was unloaded when it was at the red line, already.

I just don't see any compelling reasons NOT to use a 904 with a turbo. Too many potential problems with a manual, for me, but that's just me... I have been drag racing for 58 (no typo) years, and have never had a race car with a manual transmission...
 
Thanks for the info. I guess even when i put a bigger turbo on cars i never went a lot larger. Just enough to do what i wanted. I guess in a turbo specific motor things are adjusted to keep the turbo happy and being a 7-8k redline motor helps, where as the slant being na and older were never thought to be used for a turbo. Learn something every day. The 904 is happening (when i find one close). Again thanks for the info.
 
Thanks for the info. I guess even when i put a bigger turbo on cars i never went a lot larger. Just enough to do what i wanted. I guess in a turbo specific motor things are adjusted to keep the turbo happy and being a 7-8k redline motor helps, where as the slant being na and older were never thought to be used for a turbo. Learn something every day. The 904 is happening (when i find one close). Again thanks for the info.

Look, I am no turbo expert; far from it... all I wrote is just my opinion, based on what I read.

This turbo slant six we are building is the first "turbocharged" engine I have ever worked on, so bear that in mind when you read my opinions.... I don't have a lot of experience with them.

When the factory (whichever factory it is,) turbos a car, that car must perform with excellent driveability for "madame plushbottom" and that sort of "tuning" requires a lot of engineering expertise most of us don't have... so, we do the best we can. Those factory turbo systems have the benefit of thousands of hours of research and development by bona-fide engineers who actually know what they are doing. They, if they err, err on the side of driveability, rather than high rpm performance, so their systems spool quickly, in cases where ours won't.

I think that is the difference; those turbos that come from the factory are borderline too small, which makes them spool readily, with less encouragement from the engine.

That makes for less turbo lag, which is important on a car that is going to be driven under all kinds of circumstances.

Our car, for example, will never see the street, so it (turbo lag) is virtually inconsequential.

Good luck with your project!!! Keep us posted!:cheers:
 
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