Modern gauge cluster without computer?

-
Idaho

Idaho

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
2,595
Reaction score
274
I've got modern seats and console going into my 69 Dart project. Thinking about carrying the modern theme further to incorporate a modern cluster. I'd do something custom with the dash to blend it in.

Just not sure of making the hookup. I'll be installing a 5.9 Magnum, carbed (no computer).

I recall someone putting a modern cluster in a Dart but I think he had a 5.7 hemi with computer.

Any ideas?
 
Yes, that's the one, thanks. He used a complete drivetrain with hemi and computer from a truck.

I may need to find something from a non computer car. Newer but before computers.
 
I'm guessing modern speedos are electric not cable driven. I'm not sure how other gauges would differ and what the barriers are to using them. I wonder if a cluster with its computer and sensors could be used. There's a lot of very nice gauges cheap at the wreckers.
 
I need something like "Modern Instruments for Dummies". I'm learning a bit about stepper motors and microcontrollers - so far just that they exist :D

What the heck? Something new. Kinda fun.

The speed sensor for the car simply sends a pulse train to the cars central computer or engine control module. That module uses the frequency of the pulse train to perform various functions such as: 1) move the needle on the speedometer to the proper position, ;2) compare the speed of the drive shaft (what is usually sensed by the speed sensor) to the engine RPM to detect slippage within the transimission,. The engine control module will use the internal programming to move the speedometer needle to the proper position by sending pulses to the coils in a particular quadrature pattern to move the needle. Knowing the quadrature direction and number of pulses, the needle can be moved upscale or downscale to any position. If you ever wanted to change tire size (a common thing on pickup trucks) a trip to your dealer can load a correction factor into the control module to restore speedometer accuracy. It is all magic in the box.
Click to expand...
 

Attachments

  • stepper motor.jpg
    16.4 KB · Views: 242
Well, the speedo, you'd just need to put a vss in somehow. For the oil psi you can buy a cheap oil pressure sensor off ebay and just use the harness in the cheap gauge that comes with it. I put a hybrid civic cluster in a car a while ago cause I thought the digital meters and everything were cool. I spent weeks converting all the harness pins and sourcing parts just for half of it not to work. Good luck though. I'm sure it's doable without the ecu. Also, you can go ahead and leave the ecu dangle for part of the functionality. It doesn't need to be attached to the motor, but will allow you to use a stock vsss from the modern system, as well as the temp gauge.
 
I downloaded a 2000 Durango service manual just to get an idea how things work. All the guages are of a type called "air core magnetic units". They require signal from the computer (CCD - Chrysler Collision Detection) to operate. (I believe that is what is in the picture above).

I think one could use a junkyard computer to run the guages but its hard to know what all it depends on to function. Perhaps it will shut down if its missing inputs.

I have a complete late 90s 5.9 engine with its sensors. Some will not be there since I'm changing from injection to carb. I'd bet it is do-able but its likely more effort than its worth for someone lacking electronics savvy.

Kinda sad to see all those computers and gauges just sitting in junk yards though.
 
If you have the wire schematic, there is probably one wire that goes from the cluster to the next system in line. For instance, I wires my first attempt up wrong and it caused the automatic to shift so hard that I thought it would break. In this case it doesn't need to go to an outer system after the cluster since your just using it for a visual reading. You can get the necessary computers, hook them up to power, and plug them in as necessary to allow the cluster to function. The hardest things I always had trouble with in doing it was the temp gauge and vehicle specific stuff. The odometer will read 99999, etc..... It's a lot of work and you may not get all the functionality. The hybrid cluster I did was awesome because it always said I was getting 200 or 199mpg.sometime ord drop to 198.i think I was pushing the gas a little too much for the 198...
 
Gotta get me one of those type that get good mileage :)
 
Idaho said:
Gotta get me one of those type that get good mileage :)
Click to expand...

Yeah. That project was hard. But I might be able to help. If I know exactly what car the cluster came out of, and the trim, as well as AT/ST transmission options, I could probably decipher what all can be hooked up, and what would need a hanging computer. The only clusters I hate dealing with are Nissans since some of the later ones utilized a seperate computer for everything - even interior lights.

Since the motor isn't stock anyway, it'll basically be a wire route of however you want. Let me know, and I'll work it out the same way I did all the others - with colored pencil and a piece of paper. I must warn you, no matter what you'll need to run a VSS and the gear indicator probably wont work but it is doable.
 
That is a very generous offer. Much appreciated. I have to keep looking to see if there's a cluster I like enough to put in the effort before I take you up on it.
 
Idaho said:
That is a very generous offer. Much appreciated. I have to keep looking to see if there's a cluster I like enough to put in the effort before I take you up on it.
Click to expand...

No problem. It's kind of like doing a puzzle so I actually have fun while doing it. If you find a cluster, I'll let you know how to go about it. Also, it is a lot easier to install a 1995 or earlier cluster, but I have gone all the way to a 2004 install in an early 90's vehicle. It really depends on who made it. The digital ones look really cool, but are way more complex.
 
Well I'll look at the earlier stuff. I'm not a big fan of digital for this car.
 
I hope you guys keep this updated, I'm certainly interested. The newer stuff, for the most part, I have no experience with.
 
67Dart273 said:
I hope you guys keep this updated, I'm certainly interested. The newer stuff, for the most part, I have no experience with.
Click to expand...

With your electrical background, you could easily pick up on this stuff.
 
I'm sure. Problem is actually accessing info. I have no source for service stuff on the new stuff, and at my age and arthritis, crawling around in boneyards is getting pretty unattractive
 
There's lots of free complete service manuals online now. I just picked one at random and did some reading and found it very informative. Googling can fill in the gaps. Actually, there's so much info its a job to pick out what's pertinent.

Of course reading would only take me so far. I'm sure others have done this kind of thing but I didn't find specific info for what I'd like to do. With a little help from a guy with some knowledge and practical experience I may go for it.
 
The service manuals are the way to go. The other good one is sourcing a forum on the car the cluster is coming out of. They will easily know which colors are for what, then you just build a harness. Digital stuff is cool, and I was a fa of the civic hybrid cluster from 2003-2005 because it had some cool bar graphs on the right indicating different readings. It was hard because on different cars i'd intall it into different stuff would work. Most the time though, the temp gauge didn't function... could never figure it out, but just attaching the ECU to it made 3/4 of it work after getting frustrated with them. The clusters usually cost arond $50, then an ECU from a hybrid was about $100. It was a fun swap. The cluster alone is great:

Not my video, but look at the IMA on the right and tell me it's not cool:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAX88fSgJ6M"]Vid 2 IMAC&C for the HCH1 2003-2005 Civic Hybrid - YouTube[/ame]
 
It is cool. Now you got me chasing a rabbit trail of youtube links about how hybrid works :)
 
Idaho said:
There's lots of free complete service manuals online now. I just picked one at random and did some reading and found it very informative. Googling can fill in the gaps. Actually, there's so much info its a job to pick out what's pertinent.

Of course reading would only take me so far. I'm sure others have done this kind of thing but I didn't find specific info for what I'd like to do. With a little help from a guy with some knowledge and practical experience I may go for it.
Click to expand...

How the heck do ya FIND em? I haven't been able to, but then I don't know specifically what to look for
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top