Modern Headlights

[slantsixdan]

I was asking if you or anyone you knew still had any good ones, even expensive ones.

Oh! Sure, they're not NLA or anything, just costly. Still, it's false economy to buy the cheaper aftermarket ones, because they suck. They light up and everything, but they don't last; these are tricky bulbs to make well. The 3496 (dual filament) is here and the 3497 (single filament) is here.

But one of the reason's I have my '67 is the look.

True 'nuff. For me, I think what I'd do is keep hold of the "school bus yellow painted looking" 1034A or 1157A bulbs, each in its own plastic bag (the paint scratches off easily) and put them in for car shows...but run the good LEDs, when they eventually hit the market, for driving in traffic.

My personal opinion sides with the lighting engineers who never liked that "fried egg" look the amber bulbs caused in clear-lens lamps, whether the bulbs were painted or clear amber. On fancier cars they went to some pretty extreme lengths to try to hide the amber bulb when it was unlit and make the lamp look truly white when off. None of those techniques worked very well, but it was the best they could do.

(NOS painted-amber bulbs are fairly well available on Fleabay, and I note some enterprising guy has reproduced them…no idea what the quality or performance is like, but they're not too expensive.)

 

[tnts72]

Is this :violent1: because there are more comments on what is inneffective, poor quality or both? It's not that hard, Dan covers it in Post 11, but I'll sum it up here and add some comments on the H4s.

Your choices are:
H4 lamp assembly & bulbs
- these draw approximately the same wattage as stock but are more sensitive to low voltage
- its still a very good idea to install a relay system because headlight wiring, A-bodies in particular, was marginal to begin with.
- they have a strong horizontal cutoff which is very helpful in reducing glare and reflection in fog and rain.
- they've been in use since the 60s, and one version is even DOT marked, although it won't fool any concours points judge (unless you're claiming your car was a rally car*) but it will satisfy state inspectors if you happen to live in a state that cares (NJ was one of the few). * For an historic rally car done period correct, the DOT marked ones are wrong anyway.

BiXenons
- Expensive
- Draw less than stock, so no relays really needed

LED
- Not nearly as expensive BiXenons
- US Made options that are decent quality
- Low current draw, so no relays really needed

You can be sure that if Dan recommended a particular brand and model, it will have a lighting pattern that will put light where you (the driver) need it, without blinding others on the road (if aimed properly).

So many blah blah blah posts between actual useful information. I imagine I will be going the LED route, other wise I will be buying the new wiring harnesses from Cracked on here and going with the H4 setup. About the same money either way vs new wiring and good H4's or some decent LED versions Dan linked in post 11.

 

[crackedback]

IMO, the stock wiring isn't even sufficient to power a set of headlights properly. The basic design is really horrid. Too many connectors, long runs and less than desirable wire gauges.

You'd be surprised at the improvements with the stock headlights and a relay kit. It's substantial.

 

[Pawned]

I do not know who sells these kits, but I bought 2 relays at Fry's Electronics http://tinyurl.com/j9nmtbk for $5.99 each and used wire from my own stock, and put the relays in.

I get much more pleasure when I build and install things myself, rather than buying something ready made

 

[slantsixdan]

Good, but the relays themselves don't get the whole job done. There's still the too-thin power and ground wires to the lamps to consider, and headlight sockets available from the parts store have the same pathetic 18ga wire on them. Hence parts kits that contain the relays, the terminals, the plugs, the sockets, the fuses and fuse holders, etc. so you can do it up right.

 

[zkx14]

Crackedback sells a nice plug n play. I almost went for it...but I also like to do things myself. I didn't want to chance buying junk just anywhere, so got a relay component kit from Dan. I normally do my own research and shop around. For lighting on my Duster I went against my normal and I am 'puting all my eggs in one basket' or as the case may be, Dan's basket. I intend to take his advice for (or purchase from him) all the other lights on it as well. Not like he needs my endorsement, but from what I can see he is a true guru on the subject. Pretty sure if he inherited a boatload of cheap crap lighting he would have it sunk ( or maybe recycled), but I doubt any of it would ever be installed on a vehicle. :salute:

 

[MrJLR]

IMO, the stock wiring isn't even sufficient to power a set of headlights properly. The basic design is really horrid. Too many connectors, long runs and less than desirable wire gauges.

You'd be surprised at the improvements with the stock headlights and a relay kit. It's substantial.

I'll testify. I have your relay kit and I'm stunned at the difference.
It's like night and day. ..pun intended!

Jeff

 

[Pawned]

Good, but the relays themselves don't get the whole job done. There's still the too-thin power and ground wires to the lamps to consider, and headlight sockets available from the parts store have the same pathetic 18ga wire on them. Hence parts kits that contain the relays, the terminals, the plugs, the sockets, the fuses and fuse holders, etc. so you can do it up right.

Granted.
I mounted my relays at the very front of the left front fender, to reduce the wire lengths to the bulbs and the battery. The relays are a good quality and are way oversized for the current needed. I rebuilt the bulb connectors using a heavier gauge wire (I do not remember the size, off the top of my head). At the very least #14 awg.
I also eliminated a few connections, with home runs to the relays. To eliminate the loss at the connections to the relay sockets, I chose to built it sans sockets and soldered the wires directly to the relays, to also reduce line loss

 

[slantsixdan]

Pretty sure if [Dan] inherited a boatload of cheap crap lighting he would have it sunk ( or maybe recycled), but I doubt any of it would ever be installed on a vehicle. :salute:

I'd hire a priest to exorcise it, then I'd kill it with fire, then I'd recycle it, then I'd sink it, then I'd have it hauled up just so I could sink it again. Twice.

 

[tnts72]

Really looking about the same price either way, go with LED version or spend the money upgrading the wiring / adding relays to run the H4 type... Anyone have some pictures of the 7" led headlights installed?

 

[DionR]

How about using an 07-15 Jeep Wrangler headlight? Looks like it uses a 9008 bulb rather than a 9003, but you can get the wiring terminals to fit them for like $6 on RockAuto.

No idea if it even swaps in, only that it looks similar and I know of one A-Body that has them. Can't say he didn't have to do some custom work, but from the pictures I've seen they look close.

Just asking, no idea if it is even reasonable.

Thanks.

 

[slantsixdan]

How about using an 07-15 Jeep Wrangler headlight?

Yes, it'll fit a standard 7" headlight bucket. But '07-'15 Wrangler owners wanting better headlamps keep me in groceries. Pretty headlamp, but not a good performer -- mostly they go for decent H4s and wind up happy, which is kind of ironic since H4s are 1972 technology. "Progress" is not always in a forward direction. :-\

 

[nm9stheham]

Yes, it'll fit a standard 7" headlight bucket. But '07-'15 Wrangler owners wanting better headlamps keep me in groceries. Pretty headlamp, but not a good performer -- mostly they go for decent H4s and wind up happy, which is kind of ironic since H4s are 1972 technology. "Progress" is not always in a forward direction. :-\

I like the irony there.....

 

[DakotaDuster]

slantsixdan, I was looking on e-bay at headlights and found these; http://www.ebay.com/itm/Octane-7-in...ash=item4d3e3c0c54:g:bYEAAOSw-zxWm~IJ&vxp=mtr

They look very similar to the ones you posted earlier in the thread but significantly cheaper. I'm assuming that's because they are cheap knock offs and not of the same quality and light output, etc? Is the price too good to be true?

 

[RustyRatRod]

How about using an 07-15 Jeep Wrangler headlight? Looks like it uses a 9008 bulb rather than a 9003, but you can get the wiring terminals to fit them for like $6 on RockAuto.

No idea if it even swaps in, only that it looks similar and I know of one A-Body that has them. Can't say he didn't have to do some custom work, but from the pictures I've seen they look close.

Just asking, no idea if it is even reasonable.

Thanks.

You put those Jeep lights in if you want to, but I am tellin you from first hand experience, they SUCK. I upgraded the ones in my 08 Wrangler I had to the Cibie E code headlights with the upgraded wiring harness ant the difference was night and day. Pun intended. Just listen to Dan. He knows lighting.

 

[paulclark]

...shady...

Let me speak up for the youngsters who don't know Dan, he's no stranger to mopar, ask him about aluminum slant sixes some time! I first met Dan on the MML in the early 90's, when the internet was just a babe. He's been selflessly giving straight talk on tech topics since longtimes.

...free time...

I notice some people take a r-e-a-l-l-y long time to type their responses. That's fine, but some of us write a lot, and can type wicked fast. I bet Dan spent less time on his long an exhaustive answers than half of the rest of us did responding with one-liners.

...lights...

So sealed beam headlights are becoming scarce and crappy? Crazy talk. I take a nap for ten years, wake up and everything changes. Next I suppose you'll be telling me 13" tires are no longer the most common size...

Seriously, if you're running relays and direct power lines, are you usually making some effort to conceal this for a resto look, or is it all out in the open? Would like to see an engine bay with these mods done.

 

[Pawned]

Let me speak up for the youngsters who don't know Dan, he's no stranger to mopar, ask him about aluminum slant sixes some time! I first met Dan on the MML in the early 90's, when the internet was just a babe. He's been selflessly giving straight talk on tech topics since longtimes.

I notice some people take a r-e-a-l-l-y long time to type their responses. That's fine, but some of us write a lot, and can type wicked fast. I bet Dan spent less time on his long an exhaustive answers than half of the rest of us did responding with one-liners.

So sealed beam headlights are becoming scarce and crappy? Crazy talk. I take a nap for ten years, wake up and everything changes. Next I suppose you'll be telling me 13" tires are no longer the most common size...

Seriously, if you're running relays and direct power lines, are you usually making some effort to conceal this for a resto look, or is it all out in the open? Would like to see an engine bay with these mods done.

Your point being???????????

 

[slantsixdan]

slantsixdan, I was looking on e-bay at headlights and found these; http://www.ebay.com/itm/331756604500 They look very similar to the ones you posted earlier in the thread but significantly cheaper. I'm assuming that's because they are cheap knock offs and not of the same quality and light output, etc?

Exactly right. They are cheap and nasty—and unsafe, and illegal—Chinese knockoff garbage. Headlite-shaped trinkets. Not worth buying at any price; you don't have to spend a big pile of money to get good headlamps, but you (don't) get what you (don't) pay for. Real/legitimate LED headlamps cost money; if you can't or won't spend the dough on them, then cost-reduce the project by buying good halogens instead, not by buying bad LEDs.

 

[crackedback]

Seriously, if you're running relays and direct power lines, are you usually making some effort to conceal this for a resto look, or is it all out in the open? Would like to see an engine bay with these mods done.

My kits that go under the battery tray hide very easily with the factory harness. It does not stick out like a sore thumb because the wire covering I use isn't the GM style covering the cheap kits on Ebay use.

If desired, my kit could easily be wrapped with stock style cloth/fabric tape. A couple of customers have done this and the wires are easier to wrap because they are not singularly loose wires. Lots of ways to skin a cat.

 

[turbofreek]

well i found me some leds and halos 7"ers with wiring kit etc... non listed in this thread. which i find interesting. got from another dart racer. i am happy as a fat kid at a cup cake eating contest after fat camp ran by vegans.

 

[DakotaDuster]

Exactly right.

I thought so, and my wallet feared so. Thank you for your input Dan. Would you object to any PMs about headlight upgrades?

 

[turbofreek]

here you guys are welcome

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eB...4235&category=33710&pm=1&ds=0&t=1453276706830

 

[zkx14]

Not gonna happen. It's all projectors and/or clear lenses. We're not going back to lens optics, and even if someone were to go after the collector-car market with a lens-optic LED headlamp, it still wouldn't look like a sealed beam, because the optical facets and prisms themselves would have to be very different (because the light source is very different). Also, such a headlamp would be much less efficient/much lower performing than a clear-lens headlamp.



Yup, several of those exist right now. See post № 11 of this thread.


Careful-careful-careful. Most (almost all) of what's on the market is junk, including the lens-shaped LED panels.

Clean the front park/turn and rear brake/tail/turn lamp lenses in hot soapy water. If the reflectors are at all dull or peeling, stuff wads of masking tape in the bulb holes (or remove the sockets if they're the removable type), clean the reflectors with alcohol, then spray them with readily available "chrome" spray paint, which is practically ideal for the task.

Then put these in the brake/tail lights and these in the reversing (back-up) lights. Do not substitute, get these specific ones! You'll need this turn signal flasher. There's not yet an acceptable (safe/effective) LED replacement for 1157NA for the front turn signals, but there will be before long. More details here.

Did my grille this weekend and remembered seeing the chrome spray tip. Not even lit up yet and you can see the difference.

 

[pauly v.100]

JW Speaker Evo 2s

 

[slantsixdan]

Those JW Speaker Evo 2s go great with that Plymouth nose badge.

Those "front turn signals" you've cobbled up are not even close to adequate, though.