MSD brain teaser

Electrical and Ignition

  1. champyfz450

    champyfz450 Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys I've tried everything I can think of to solve this issue I'm having so ill lay it out for u folks and please try to point me in the right direction. I've been running my 71 demon (318) with a 6462 msd btm ignition (will eventually go with boost) and blaster 2 coil along with a mopar distributor for a month or so now, and it ran great. I decided to switch the mopar unit for an msd 8388 distributor and blaster ss coil but once installed, I had no spark so after trying what I could think of to make it work I decided to cut my losses and put the mopar unit and blaster 2 back in but now that doesn't work either (still no spark). I get no spark from coil wire when touching the msd ign white wire to ground, as recommended by msd. I do have 12v switched at the red and verified, I do have 12v at the white when the key is in run position, and as far as I can see all wiring from battery, to ignition, to dist, to coil looks right. Is there anything that may have gotten messed up when pulling the old dist? What happens to the 2 old dist wires after msd install? Can I just go back to using the green and purple wires that I was using before insead of the white? I guess I could also use a refresher from someone about how the old ballast resistor wiring should look when done. I'm at a loss here guys and could really use the help, I don't get much time off work to enjoy the car so if really like to me mobile again. Thanks!!
     
  2. 67Dart273

    67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    12V at the white? I'd have to look this up, but I DON'T THINK SO

    White is for breaker points.

    What do you mean "the two old distributor wires?"

    You talking about the existing Mopar distributor? They have to be wired to trigger the MSD

    http://www.msdignition.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=15032386165

    HEAVY BLACK........ground

    HEAVY RED.............continuous 12V

    SMALL RED.............switched 12v IE "ignition run."

    ORANGE............Coil POS

    BLACK................Coil NEG

    NOTICE ONLY THOSE TWO WIRES AND NOTHING ELSE should be connected to the coil. DO NOT connect a tach to the coil!!!!

    WHITE.........tape off and DO NOT GROUND. This is for points trigger

    VIOLET and

    GREEN These are the magnetic trigger IE factory Mopar distirbutor

    Re read the destructions carefully. To test spark using magnetic trigger short and "unshort" the green and violet.

    "or" repeatedly short / unshort the white to ground.

    THE WHITE MUST be taped off when in operation
     
  3. Dave1967

    Dave1967 Cuda crazy

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    Running msd the ballest resister should be by passed. Tell me more how you did this. Another words what did you do with the blue wire,
     
  4. champyfz450

    champyfz450 Well-Known Member

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    I connected the blues to the browns from both sides of the resistor and tied those to switched red at the ign box
     
  5. champyfz450

    champyfz450 Well-Known Member

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    Jeez bud I'm really confused now between the msd distributor instructions and the msd ignition box instructions. The distributor instructions say to use the white wire and not the green and violet but the ignition box instructions say to use violet and green. Which should it be? I'm very afraid I hurt something the first attempt I made at hooking up the msd distributor because the mopar distributor (that always worked) wouldn't work when I put it back in.

    And as for the factory wires to the distributor (light brown and dark brown/white) they're just hanging there not doing anything, is this where I failed? Lol. I did;

    Distributor orange - ignition box white

    Dist red - ign box small red and factory switched power (blues/browns from old ballast resistor)

    Dist black - ground (same location as engine grd)

    Ignition heavy red - straight to battery positive

    Ignition black - battery ground

    Ignition orange - coil positive

    Ignition black - coil negative

    Ignition green - nothing (because instructions said to use the white at ign box)

    Ignition violet - nothing (because instructions said to use the white at ign box)

    Tach to tach input at ignition box

    If you see my issue here 67dart273 please help me out! I could really use the help. Electrical is like voodoo magic to me.
     
  6. champyfz450

    champyfz450 Well-Known Member

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    Also, 67dart273, I'm assuming your instructions are based on using the factory mopar distributor?? I did have everything connected exactly as you say and the car ran great. However, when I hooked up and installed the msd 8388 distributor I did not use the magnetic pickup, just the white (points) pickup.
     
  7. 67Dart273

    67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    This is where I misunderstood what you were using NOW I see "whut."

    See that distributor is a stand alone ignition system all by itself. "It works" much like the Mopar ECU and an HEI type system, AND points. That is, it works by feeding 12V to the coil, and switching the coil NEGATIVE

    So when you then add the MSD CD box NOW what you are doing is removing that "ready to run" system from the coil and using IT to trigger the MSD box.

    I hope you are wiring it as figure 10 of the 8388 destructions, and you are right, the white is what should be triggering the MSD box

    http://www.msdignition.com/Products...rysler_318-360,_Ready_to_Run_Distributor.aspx

    For testing you SHOULD be able to hook up "just" the distributor and run it
     

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  8. tarvin890

    tarvin890 tarvin890

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    woweee thats alot to sink in....glad some of you are whizzes with electrical...
     
  9. champyfz450

    champyfz450 Well-Known Member

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    This is where I think I have a problem in the factory wiring now, I believe I messed something up somewhere because I tried to run the distributor by itself as a last resort and it won't create a spark either. I'm really stumped!!!
     
  10. champyfz450

    champyfz450 Well-Known Member

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    So again, back to the original dist wires, do they just get left doing nothing and taped off?
     
  11. 67Dart273

    67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    If you are referring to the ones in the car harness, they originally went direct to the Mopar ECU. Not used.

    WHAT I "would do"

    Get out the original destructions for the MSD distributor and wire it up as simply as possible, IE do not use the car harness AT ALL. Hook a clip lead to get your 12V and get that much working.

    Then if you want to use the MSD box wire it up the same way, that is "hot wire" with clip leads.

    MAKE SURE there is nothing else hooked to the coil. No capacitor, no tach

    "The thing" about the original ballast and factory wiring.

    The "ignition run" wire comes from the ignition switch, through the bulkhead, and splits off somewhere to feed "other stuff." It feeds the ignition resistor, the voltage regulator, alternator field (blue) and some smog doo dads in some cases.

    THAT WIRE, the ignition "run" or "IGN 1" goes COLD when starting.

    SO HOW do you get spark in "starting?"

    There is a SEPARATE wire, usually brown, which originally was the "coil resistor bypass" or IGN2. This ALSO came from the switch, through the bulkhead, and IS THE ONLY power that is "hot" for ignition during "crank."

    This originally fed direct to coil + by hooking to the coil resistor. If, somehow, you did not get that connected, you won't have power in "start."

    So you need to check that. Use a meter, and see if you have 12V both in "run" and in "start"
     
  12. champyfz450

    champyfz450 Well-Known Member

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    Hey I tested everything with my meter and I do have 12 volts when cranking with the brown (original coil +) hooked to the ignition box small red. Still no spark. I'm confused here guys. I may just take it all off and send it in to msd while I'm back at work and have it checked
     
  13. 67Dart273

    67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Yeh. I don't know. "Stuff does fail"
     
  14. champyfz450

    champyfz450 Well-Known Member

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    Well I got it to run. I used the old coil + wire to the new coil + terminal along with dist red and dist orange to coil -

    It still will not run using the ignition box with it though. Only dist and coil alone will work.

    Either way, I'm able to drive it again. Not sure what to do about the box now though.
     
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