MSD Pro Billet or MSD E-Curve distributor for racing

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I have the choice between the MSD Billet or MSD E-Curve Distributors to run on my 408 Duster drag car. Which should I run and why?

Thanks in advance....

Bill
 
Will you ever be cruising on the racetrack or just to it or is it a trailer car? If you're driving the car there and then you do a tune-up before you race then you might want the E curve for gas mileage and turn off vac for race...lmao... i

you just want the Pro Billet!
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
Will you ever be cruising on the racetrack or just to it or is it a trailer car? If you're driving the car there and then you do a tune-up before you race then you might want the E curve for gas mileage and turn off vac for race...lmao... i

you just want the Pro Billet!
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Trailer car and the pro billet is what I plan on running but recently acquired an e-curve and was thinking about playing around with it. Curious to see everyone’s opinion.
 
I run a PB, but locked at 32….. now I have to research that e-curve one. haven’t heard of it
 
I have E-curve with a street driver. 12K or so miles on it.

The top of the cap is tall on it. If you are running a wiper motor the right angle plug wire ends comes real close. There is plenty of room under it, I don’t know why they designed neck so tall.

PITA is you are messing with the distributor often. Straight up ends are out of question. Even a MSD distributor cap wire retainer will not fit with those special right angle ends.

Messing with the timing curve with clicks of a dial is cool. But getting the cap off to do it is a PITA. And having all curve adjustments and rev limiter in one clean unit was cool and tidy to me.

But in a dedicated race car, I’d want individual isolated serviceable units that you get with a traditional pro-billet system.
 
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If the E curve allows you to change the curve the way you want it then it might be a good option.

If all you can do it turn a dial and change to a curve that is preprogrammed then I’d pass on it.

All engines NEED a timing curve. All of them. All electronics have a slew rate. Slew rates are different even with the same parts.

To that end, since ALL electronics have a slew rate and the slew rate isn’t the same for the same components you WILL have timing retard. You WILL. You can do nothing to not have it.

Some ignitions/ignition boxes retard less, but they all do it. Even the exact same part number ignition boxes will have different retard curves. They won’t start at the same RPM nor will they retard at the same rate.

So outside of the fact that all engines want a timing curve, the upshot is that if you don’t account for the retard you have no idea what your timing is across your RPM range.

If you lock the ignition out and set your timing at idle then you have no clue what your timing is at converter stall speed and max RPM.

If you say ok, I’ll lock out my ignition and set my timing at max RPM what does that do to how much timing the engine wants below max RPM???

Most engines want LESS timing at peak torque and MORE timing at peak power.

Are you starting to see how important a curve is???

I have videos of retard happening. I’ve posted them here. It’s real. Ignoring it doesn’t make it go away.
 
I run the Pro Billet in my street/strip Dart, the spring and bushings that come with it makes it tunable. I did make a bushing for mine to limit the timing advance, none of the bushings that came with it limited it enough. I'm running 22° initial and 34° total.
 
I run a pro billet. I have it locked out with a crank trigger but ran it just regular before. Everyone I talked to said you want it all in early so never played the curve.
 
73smallblock said:
I run a pro billet. I have it locked out with a crank trigger but ran it just regular before. Everyone I talked to said you want it all in early so never played the curve.
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I used to be the guy who said bring it in early or even lock it out.

Then I learned how wrong that is. Came up on a forum. I said lock it out. William Baldwin said don’t do that. All engines want a curve and the timing retards with RPM.

I said that’s nonsense. He posted several videos. I watched them. Then I went right out and bought a distributor machine. I never lock them out or bring them in early any more.

And I promptly apologized to him for being ignorant.
 
Rat Bastid said:
I used to be the guy who said bring it in early or even lock it out.

Then I learned how wrong that is. Came up on a forum. I said lock it out. William Baldwin said don’t do that. All engines want a curve and the timing retards with RPM.

I said that’s nonsense. He posted several videos. I watched them. Then I went right out and bought a distributor machine. I never lock them out or bring them in early any more.

And I promptly apologized to him for being ignorant.
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Interesting to know. I guess that's where a dyno would really come in handy.
 
73smallblock said:
Interesting to know. I guess that's where a dyno would really come in handy.
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Before I got the dyno I just bought a distributor machine. You can hook up your full ignition to it and watch the retard.

The tricky part is dealing with the retard once you see it. You can spend a bunch of time correcting it but it’s worth it.
 
Rat Bastid said:
I used to be the guy who said bring it in early or even lock it out.

Then I learned how wrong that is. Came up on a forum. I said lock it out. William Baldwin said don’t do that. All engines want a curve and the timing retards with RPM.

I said that’s nonsense. He posted several videos. I watched them. Then I went right out and bought a distributor machine. I never lock them out or bring them in early any more.

And I promptly apologized to him for being ignorant.
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Is that the Baldwin-Motion Baldwin?
 
Rat Bastid said:
Baldwin Carbs and Ignition in North Carolina
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ahhh thanks.. was just curious... i just bout my dist from hoppy and had him test/curve it... guessing of course but better than i would do :)
 
Rat Bastid said:
Before I got the dyno I just bought a distributor machine. You can hook up your full ignition to it and watch the retard.

The tricky part is dealing with the retard once you see it. You can spend a bunch of time correcting it but it’s worth it.
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Can I send you my ignition system and have you set it up for me? I can send both distributors as well....
 
So help me out here. I fail to see how u can get a dist curve right without a running engine. What am I missing here. I know it can probably be close but close only works for horse shoes and hand grenades. Kim
 
oldkimmer said:
So help me out here. I fail to see how u can get a dist curve right without a running engine. What am I missing here. I know it can probably be close but close only works for horse shoes and hand grenades. Kim
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Yes, you get it close to start with and tune from there.

As I learned the hard way (and the expensive way), the slew rate of the various components including the timing light affects how you curve the distributor.

If you don’t know when the ignition box starts to retard and how much, your curve probably doesn’t match engine requirements.

Thats why locking out the distributor is such a bad policy. I’ve seen ignition boxes start retarding at 3000 and by 6500ish they have retarded 5, 6 or more degrees. So you’re locked out 35 degrees or whatever is now only 30. Or less.

Of course, you could set the timing at max RPM with a locked out distributor But you almost certainly would have far more than the nominal setting most people use at idle.

From the example above, if you set your timing at 35 at idle and your box retarded 5 degrees by 6000, to maintain that 35 total you’d need to be 40 at idle.

And the problem with that is most engines want LESS timing at and around peak torque and MORE timing at and around peak horsepower.

Thats why I always try and discourage locking out a distributor regardless if it’s a drag car. The engine doesn’t know it’s in a drag car. Even if you have your stall speed above peak torque (and many do not) the engine still wants an increase in timing above peak torque.
 
Picture adjusting the timing curves and the wiper motor location

The dials are in those two white square on the circuit board

7516259-4_22_11Sm8.jpg
 
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I've decided to run it on my Dart with a mild 360. The Pro Billet will go on the race Duster.

Thanks all, Bill
IMG_1098.jpeg
 
justinp61 said:
I run the Pro Billet in my street/strip Dart, the spring and bushings that come with it makes it tunable. I did make a bushing for mine to limit the timing advance, none of the bushings that came with it limited it enough. I'm running 22° initial and 34° total.
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That’s what annoys me about the Pro Billet. Not enough adjustability. I’m would have voted for the E-curve.
 
Neither one. Why? Cause I said so.
 
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