My Molasses rust experiment results.

[Idaho]

Do not think i would go to that much work , to take rust of .Especially things you can sand blast or use glass bead in a cabinet.

His actual hands on time investment is a lot less than sandblasting would require and this process will remove rust in areas sandblasting can not reach.

The chemistry is similar to products like evaporust which work by chelation but are much faster than molasses (no pun intended). :tongue7:

I've used this one (http://www.rust911.com/rust-remover-conc.html) with phenomenal results overnight. If bought in concentrate form the cost is not bad. $60 for 1 gal that makes 10 gal so $6 per gal vs evaporust which sells at HF for about $30 per gal. I keep a 5 gal bucket handy for whatever.

The industry is in flux with this product. The name and website totally changed since I made my purchase. Likely they are all selling the same thing and working hard to protect the marketing of their "secret ingredients".

Here's some interesting info I found when researching the topic.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69793

Hello-
I thought I would share a few results of some experiments. After searching the web, it appears that Evapo-Rust and similar products are actually chelation agents. These are compounds that bind tightly to oxidized iron and pull it into solution. I could go into detail, but this is posted elsewhere. In any event, one of the best chelation agents out there (rumored to be the active ingredient in E-R) is ethylenediaminetetraacetate or EDTA. One can purchase this pure in bulk (for example from sigma aldrich). Get EDTA, not its disodium salt. It is around $110 per kilogram. I made up about a 5% solution, and adjusted the pH to 9.0 with sodium hydroxide pellets (dangerous, know how to handle). Even extremely rusted wrenches were remarkably cleaned with this very cheap solution. After about a day in the solution with an occasional mild scrub with a scrub pad to remove bulk rust, they were essentially rust free, and ready for passivating (some kind of treatment to prevent flash rust of pure iron crystals that form on the surface of the tool during this process). One can use WD40, or microcrystalline wax. It is probably not superior to electrolysis, but is really easy. The solution is relatively non-toxic. About 80 million kilograms of EDTA are synthesized annually. Some people even take minute quantities as a (probably quack) cure-all. That being said, it does break down into some compounds with some pollution potential. Another compound with potent chelation properties is EDDS (ethylenediamine NN Disuccinic acid). This compound is much easier on the environment, but is also much more expensive ($400 for one liter of a 35% solution), and I have not yet tried this on a rusty wrench.

Here's an interesting but sad rust story. I believe they were working on it with chelating treatment but work has been stalled by the recession...
http://www.allpar.com/history/auto-shows/time-capsule.html

Another home brew:
[ame="http://www.ehow.com/video_4950785_make-rust-remover.html"]Video: How to Make a Rust Remover | eHow[/ame]

 

[drive48]

Molasses goes bad very quickly. how can this be? i am on my 4th soaking of different parts and i have not had to clean the drum out other than the mold when i change the parts out. The product is BIODEGRADABLE and basically effortless.

A quicker way to remove rust is a bucket, some rebar, battery charger and some caustic soda...works well and very quickly...

Ian.

I have also tried that, drawbacks i encountered were the fumes were toxic and i didn't want that in my garage. you have to mix the soda constantly. For me this was easiest and i had nothing to do but let them soak.

Do not think i would go to that much work , to take rust of .Especially things you can sand blast or use glass bead in a cabinet.

what work or effort?
FILL DRUM WITH WATER. MIX MOLASSES WITH WATER. PUT PARTS IN. PUT LID ON. WALK AWAY. COME BACK ONCE A MONTH AND CHECK PARTS. WHEN I FEEL THEY ARE READY I PULL OUT, WASH OFF, PRIME AND UTILIZE THEM.

i have a glass bead cabinent. too abrasive for some parts i do not want to pit. also the parts i am soaking are nothing i am in a rush to have so there was no need to blast.
greatest part was the only thing molasses did was remove rust. nothing else.

 

[drive48]

His actual hands on time investment is a lot less than sandblasting would require and this process will remove rust in areas sandblasting can not reach.
exactly... the manifolds i soaked had scale and rust inside them. when i pulled them a few months later they were like new... they have the exact finish the were cast and installed in 1970 and no abrasive blasting was necessary.
The chemistry is similar to products like evaporust which work by chelation but are much faster than molasses (no pun intended). :tongue7:

I've used this one (http://www.rust911.com/rust-remover-conc.html) with phenomenal results overnight. If bought in concentrate form the cost is not bad. $60 for 1 gal that makes 10 gal so $6 per gal vs evaporust which sells at HF for about $30 per gal. I keep a 5 gal bucket handy for whatever.

The industry is in flux with this product. The name and website totally changed since I made my purchase. Likely they are all selling the same thing and working hard to protect the marketing of their "secret ingredients".

Here's some interesting info I found when researching the topic.



Here's an interesting but sad rust story. I believe they were working on it with chelating treatment but work has been stalled by the recession...
http://www.allpar.com/history/auto-shows/time-capsule.html

Another home brew:
http://www.ehow.com/video_4950785_make-rust-remover.html

thanks

 

[grassy]

I have also tried that, drawbacks i encountered were the fumes were toxic and i didn't want that in my garage. you have to mix the soda constantly. For me this was easiest and i had nothing to do but let them soak.

Mixing wasn't an issue for me. And the liquid never goes bad or weak...just cover and bring out for another day.

No fumes as well. I just stuck the bucket just outside the garage door...even in the rain. No smell. Especially not bad stuff like brake cleaner.

I had the bucket and battery charger. the jugs of caustic soda were cheap and the rebar 15 bucks, maybe.

I grow a lot with organics and use molasses. It goes bad very quickly and I am not sure how safe it is breathing that stuff or even handling it months later..does it go toxic ?

lastly, it takes far too long. We cleaned up a bunch of nasty parts very quickly...

Ian.

 

[daredevil]

Sure.

I thought I had pictures of this before I took my device down but I cannot find them at the moment.

I took a 5 gallon bucket ( you can go bigger / smaller if you wish) and measured the depth.

I took rebar and cut 8 pieces ( you can go more or less) just a bit shorter than the height of the pail.

I buffed them up a bit so the bare metal was showing through. You want good contact and metal showing through..

I marked where the rebar would be stand up around on the inside of the bucket and drilled two holes - one on each side of where the rebar was going to be.

I then took pieces of copper wire and secured the rebar to the bucket so both ends of the wire copper were protruding from the bucket. I then took pices of wires and connected each end to just about make a circle..leave the last wire off.

Like this..not mine but is OK

I then took a board and connected a piece of wire to it leaving both ends bare .

I filled the bucket with a solution of soda water..I used caustic soda for because I had some on hand...it isn't the liquid that cleans anyway..

I lowered a really rusty piece into the water supported by the wire attached to the board...do not let the mental touch the rebar.

I took a battery charger and attached the neg end to the wire attached to the metal product and the pos leading to all the rebar.

If you see bubbles, all is going well.

Depending on the amount of rust will determine the amount of time required. I don't think i left any piece for more than 3 hours. If the mental is too long you can do one end and then switch.

Wash off the mental after you pull it from the tank to neutralize the liquid.

I lightly buffed afterwards. You should paint or whatever soon afterwards because it will rust quickly.

This link may explain it better than I. I wish I had known about it soon.

http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/electrolytic_derusting.htm


It is safe but with everything, I try to maintain good ventilation.

When you finally get ride of the liquid, there is a lot of crap at the bottom of the bucket.

I use this method also but i use old transformers like phone chargers andthe chargers you plug in anything cordless. Recycling,I,m sure everyone has a few old ones of these lying around.Why wear out the battery charger. The little phone chargers dont use much juice and do a good job. Just cut the ends off and add gator clips.

 

[drive48]

Mixing wasn't an issue for me. And the liquid never goes bad or weak...just cover and bring out for another day.

No fumes as well. I just stuck the bucket just outside the garage door...even in the rain. No smell. Especially not bad stuff like brake cleaner.

I had the bucket and battery charger. the jugs of caustic soda were cheap and the rebar 15 bucks, maybe.

I grow a lot with organics and use molasses. It goes bad very quickly and I am not sure how safe it is breathing that stuff or even handling it months later..does it go toxic ? i where latex gloves and a mold rated mask as precautions, but the mold is rather solid and not powdery so it does not become airborne during removal.

lastly, it takes far too long. We cleaned up a bunch of nasty parts very quickly...TRUE BUT MY POINT OF THE THREAD WAS I WAS IN NO RUSH FOR MY PARTS.

Ian.

Assuming that your using steel rebar and a sodium carbonnate solution, the only hazard that I know of is that the tiny bubbles that form in the solution is hydrogen gas. obviously common sense is to do this in a well ventilated area, but the larger the part the more hydrogen byproduct produced (a potential BOMB). i haven't heard of molasses blowing anyone's place recently. Another hazard to electrolysis is it can weaken the metal that is being rust removed on, you can not use this on stainless as i can to remove the surface rust, as electrolysis will produce (chromium) which can kill you.
I'm not here to argue what is right or wrong way to do rust removal, my thread was to show what my results were.

PICS BELOW ARE OF PARTS I PUT IN WHEN I STARTED THIS POST AND PULLED TODAY TO CHECK PROGRESS.
IF YOU ARE NOT PATIENT ENOUGH TO MOLASSES, THERE ARE MANY OPTIONS AVAILABLE ONLINE BLOGS. SEARCH OUT AND TRY SOMETHING AND POST YOUR RESULTS FOR ALL OF US TO SEE AND DETERMINE IF IT WILL WORK FOR US INDIVIDUALLY.

 

[buckshotbishop]

I have also tried that, drawbacks i encountered were the fumes were toxic and i didn't want that in my garage.


hydrogen and oxygen are not toxic, just very flammable, but you dont have to worry about a fire hazard unless its in a sealed container because so little is produced. unless you put table salt in your water then you could make chlorine gas which is bad stuff.

2 H2O + -e = 2 H2 gas + O2 gas

2 NaCl + -e = 2 Na + Cl2 gas

the sodium reacts with water instantly resulting in sodium hydroxide ( not a ignition source for the H2 )

also i tried it and it took to long so i busted out a wire brush and electric drill

 

[drive48]

I have also tried that, drawbacks i encountered were the fumes were toxic and i didn't want that in my garage.


hydrogen and oxygen are not toxic, just very flammable, but you dont have to worry about a fire hazard unless its in a sealed container because so little is produced. unless you put table salt in your water then you could make chlorine gas which is bad stuff.

2 H2O + -e = 2 H2 gas + O2 gas

2 NaCl + -e = 2 Na + Cl2 gas

the sodium reacts with water instantly resulting in sodium hydroxide ( not a ignition source for the H2 )

THANK YOU for the chemistry lesson, i stand corrected. not toxic but can be flammable, which i am trying to avoid in my situation.

 

[67dodgedart273]

I have been doing this molasses thing for the past couple of years and it works great, when i remove items from the molasses, i power wash them and then immediately spray them with por15 metal ready(while the parts are still wet with water) and this stops any rust from forming, so the parts can be left in bare metal for as long as 12 months or more without rusting until you get time to paint them. Electroysis rust removal is fast but it will weaken the metal and can cause the part to fracture and break later down the road.

 

[grassy]

I use this method also but i use old transformers like phone chargers andthe chargers you plug in anything cordless. Recycling,I,m sure everyone has a few old ones of these lying around.Why wear out the battery charger. The little phone chargers dont use much juice and do a good job. Just cut the ends off and add gator clips.

Daredevil,

Good tip....the charge I use has had better days...was going to throw it out but the hoarder in me just wouldn't let me.. I do have a bunch of the other in some drawer

And to Mr. Bold, I was only providing information because Bighammer asked me to explain..not because I wanted to hijack your thread..that is what people do on this board, trade information. Sorry you feel this way...do I bold this ?

Lastly, keeping abound food stuffs that have gone bad in a serious way doesn't sound too healthy to me...especially confined indoors..I would ask my doctor before I ventured into this one..